Jesus is not God ..... Part 3

[Bandit]

FaithfulServant, I am doing this in 4 separate posts because it gets so lengthy. The first two on most of the passages you gave. The 3rd post because I see the passage in Col. ties in with the cross. The 4th post are just basic notes. A basic personal outline that I have shared with others. So you can kind of see where I am coming from.

Remember you are seeing him as God in the manger, I am seeing Jesus as both the First Adam and Last Adam- Same man in spirit.

John 19:7The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. I don't see this as Jesus caliming to be God only the Son of God. When i think of Rome at that time they were extremely involved with the Roman & Greek pagan gods where they believed that god (s) turned into me. Maybe in there minds, that is what they thought Jesus was claiming, due to the thought of the people of the times.

At that particular time, Jesus really is the only one who could claim to be Son of God, because the Holy Ghost was given to him without measure. People had not been given the spirit of God yet, to be called sons of God as in our new birth. Jesus is also the firstborn.

Firstborn First begotten

First, I do not see anything in these passages about planets and solar systems. I am seeing something greater. What I see is The tabernacle of God is with men. The plan of God is about man (men).

Heb :2:6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?

2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

2:8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

2:10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.



Son of man here I see is Jesus (last Adam). God MADE him lower than angels and God crowned him with glory and honour and SET him over the works of Gods hands.

We see God put all things (powers,PEOPLE, entities) under his feet. God put all (PEOPLE, entities) in subjection and left NOTHING that is not put under him. But not YET are all THINGS (powers, PEOPLE, entities) put under him.



He BECAME, for whom are all THINGS (PEOPLE, entities) and BY all THINGS bringing many sons unto glory. Then we see Jesus as captain of their (PEOPLE, entities) salvation. God MADE him perfect through sufferings. Death of the cross.



Hebrews1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

1:6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

1:7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

1:9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

1:10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:



Verse 1



God spoke to us through the man Jesus (manifested himself)

Whom he (GOD) APPOINTED heir of all things (powers people entities)

By whom (this is Jesus as first Adam) whom also he MADE the worlds.

WORLDS is used in both broad and narrow sense- WORLDS can be people or space, or inhabitants within the world (people/man).



Though first Adam died at 930, his germ life did not die. It lives on in every man and woman. First Adam was MADE with the ability and power to reproduce creatures, offspring like himself through his germ life. Spirits do not have this power to procreate themselves. God can MAKE flesh and spirits, but he cannot beget flesh, he can only beget the spirit of man. This is done when we are born again of the spirit of God.
If we make Jesus more than a man, such as God, then God would have to beget himself. Mary could not give birth to God because flesh begets flesh (man).




Verse 3



We see Last Adam (Jesus) as the express image of his person. I see Jesus is the IMAGE of God. Remember, first Adam was also MADE in the IMAGE of God.

Jesus SAT down on the right hand of Majesty when?

When he HAD by himself purged (past tense) our sins.
So I dont see Jesus on the right hand prior to the cross or at some earlier time.


Here we see Jesus (Last Adam) being MADE better than angels and Jesus by INHERITANCE obtained a more excellent name than angels.

In Verse 5
Where is the first biblical record we have where the father spoke and declared Jesus as his son?
The first record is at Jordan. “This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.”

I see Jesus begotten of the spirit at Jordan as the first record of God declaring Jesus as his Son. Further evidence is when we see the spirit of God (Holy Ghost) descending upon him. Just before he enters the wilderness it reads “Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost…”





Verse 6 and 7

AGAIN- through repetition, God bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world (people or space) God said, LET (allow) all the angels to worship him.

God maketh angels spirits and ministers

Verse 8 and 9

God is speaking to Jesus.

I do not see two thrones here. I do not see two Gods here. What I see is the throne (authority) of God being manifested in and through Jesus. This throne given to Jesus is a SCEPTRE

"sceptre": 4464 rhabdos hrab'-dos from the base of 4474; a stick or wand (as a cudgel, a cane or a baton of royalty):--rod, sceptre, staff.



A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy Kingdom. We see Jesus in charge of Gods Kingdom.

Why?

Because Jesus loved righteousness and hated iniquity.
We have to keep in mind that God refers to Jesus as God, but he is not a separate God outside of the father. He is an image of the authority (throne) of God, so that we can see God.


Verse 10

Jesus is Lord, but I also see him in the beginning as First Adam laying a foundation FIRST of the earth (people) through multiplying and offspring. Second, The heavens (Kingdom of heaven and Kingdom of God) Last Adam through offspring in the spirit by the Spirit of God.

[Bandit]

2
Remember, the plan of God is for man, not angels, not planets and solar systems.

‘Firstborn’ does not mean ‘first created’; the Greek for the latter is protoktisis, while firstborn is prototokos. In fact, the verses after Colossians 1:15 show that Christ Himself is the creator of all things.

I am seeing Jesus as the first CREATURE as in first man Adam, not necessarily the first created as in angels and planets.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1:19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.



I do not see anything here about planets, elelments and solar systems. I see thrones, dominions and powers.



We see Jesus again, as the IMAGE of the invisible God. The firstborn of every creature.

Verse 18 declares Jesus firstborn from the dead. This is the firstborn in the resurection.



"creature":2937 ktisis ktis'-is from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance.






2938 ktisma ktis'-mah from 2936; an original formation (concretely), i.e. product (created thing):--creature.

Firstborn4415 prototokia pro-tot-ok'-ee-ah from 4416; primogeniture (as a privilege):--birthright. 4416 prototokos pro-tot-ok'-os from 4413 and the alternate of 5088; first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):--firstbegotten(-born).

The Firstborn was considered holy under Jewish law. I am not sure what you mean by firstborn

First Adam was the first original creature (man) firstborn through creation (man, earthly).

Last Adam was the first begotten (firstborn of the spirit, heavenly at Jordan)

Verse 18 declares also Jesus is firstborn from the dead. This is the firstborn in the resurrection.



For BY or THROUGH him (fist Adam) were all THINGS (people) created. This is through the generation and regeneration of Adams seed (earth- visible).



Think on this for a minute:

Without First Adam we have no fallen race for Jesus (Last Adam) to redeem and display the power of God.

Without First Adam we have no Mary for Last Adam to be made from.

Without First Adam we have no political powers or dominions in earth.

Today we have visible political powers and thrones beyond comprehension.

Adam was GIVEN dominion over the works of Gods hands. Dominion over the earth, the animals, the waters, the land.



BY him were all things created, in (heaven invisible). This is the throne and power and principality over the Kingdom of heaven and Kingdom of God. The key word here is BY.

It is clear that God created the solar system in Genises. We are now looking at the powers that go beyond the solar system and basic elements.

Without Last Adam (Jesus) we have no power of redemption.

Without Last Adam (Jesus) we have no Kingdom of God for Jesus to gather and present.

Last Adam (Jesus) was GIVEN a throne to rule over all nations.

Our Physical Flesh is a power (visible)
Our mind Thought is a power (invisible)



Verse 17

First Adam is before all THINGS (people) Adam was first.

Last Adam (Jesus) was before all things (people) in the Kingdom of God.

BY him all things consist. (introduce, approve, stand with)

"consist": 4921 sunistao soon-is-tah'-o, or (strengthened) sunistano soon-is-tan'-o, or sunistemi soon-is'-tay-mee from 4862 and 2476 (including its collateral forms); to set together, i.e. (by implication) to introduce (favorably), or (figuratively) to exhibit; intransitively, to stand near, or (figuratively) to constitute:--approve, commend, consist, make, stand (with).



Verse 18

Jesus is the head. The beginning of the church- That in ALL THINGS he may have the preeminence.

So (Last Adam) Jesus is not just preeminent as head of the spiritual body, (people) he is also preeminent as First Adam (people).

Remember- this is a plan within the work and wisdom of God. ALL things are of God.

But it pleased God (the Father) that in him (JESUS, Last Adam) should all fullness dwell.

God is interested in men, (the creature) not angels and galaxies





When God made the world (first Adam) it was all good. Adam was made without sin, because God does not make sin. God was content and at peace. It was after disobedience we see God angry and imposes a curse of death as he alienates himself from Adam and all of us.



Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.



For whom he did foreknow (first Adam) he also predestinated to the image of his Son (JESUS, Last Adam)

Then we see Jesus as the firstborn among who?

the firstborn among many brethren. Jesus was a man just like us and we are his brothers. Jesus is like an older brother.

[Bandit]

3


What Happened at the cross?
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

What else happened at Calvary?
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

What else happened?
PEACE and RECONCILATION



Peace and reconciliation is important to understand the purpose of the cross.



Col.1:20 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.



When God made the world (first Adam) it was all good. Adam was made without sin, because God does not make sin. God was content. It was after disobedience we see God angry and imposes a curse of death upon Adam and all of Adams seed.

Religion puts Adam in the trash can, but I don’t believe God did. God loved Adam. That was his first creation of man. Adam was special. God gave Adam dominion over the earth. God made Adam SUBJECT to obedience in a commandment and through disobedience God made him subject to death. We see a peace that was disturbed.



God also subjected the creature to hope.

Through peace and reconciliation of a commandment, which was death to the cross.



Jesus MADE peace through the blood of the cross, obedient unto death. BY him (Jesus Last Adam) to reconcile all THINGS (people entities) unto himself.

I SAY- things in earth (mankind) or things in heaven (God)



Why is there a need for him to reconcile all things and make peace?





"reconcile": 604 apokatallasso ap-ok-at-al-las'-so from 575 and 2644; to reconcile fully:--reconcile. 1259 diallasso dee-al-las'-so from 1223 and 236; to change thoroughly, i.e. (mentally) to conciliate:--reconcile.

2132 eunoeo yoo-no-eh'-o from a compound of 2095 and 3563; to be well- minded, i.e. reconcile:--agree. 2644 katallasso kat-al-las'-so from 2596 and 236; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference:--reconcile.



"reconciliation": 2433 hilaskomai hil-as'-kom-ahee middle voice from the same as 2436; to conciliate, i.e. (transitively) to atone for (sin), or (intransitively) be propitious:--be merciful, make reconciliation for.

2643 katallage kat-al-lag-ay' from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor:--atonement, reconciliation(-ing). 4900 sunelauno soon-el-ow'-no from 4862 and 1643; to drive together, i.e. (figuratively) exhort (to reconciliation):--+ set at one again.



Reconcile 2433 hilaskomai hil-as'-kom-ahee middle voice from the same as 2436; to conciliate, i.e. (transitively) to atone for (sin), or (intransitively) be propitious:--be merciful, make reconciliation for. 2435 hilasterion hil-as-tay'-ree-on neuter of a derivative of 2433; an expiatory (place or thing), i.e. (concretely) an atoning victim, or (specially) the lid of the Ark (in the Temple):--mercyseat, propitiation.



Reconciling 2644 katallasso kat-al-las'-so from 2596 and 236; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference:--reconcile.



Reconcile/ apokatallasso/ The stronger term for reconcile with the preposition apo, from- indicating the state to be left, and kata, toward the state to be sought after. It differs from katallaso, the setting up of peace not existing before, while apokatallasso is the restoration of peace that has been disturbed.



Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

1:21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.



Eph. 2:16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:



This enmity was the curse of death from the First Adam through disobedience. First Adam is the only one who could restore and make peace. His hope was that he would be made again as Last Adam and be obedient to death and break the curse of death and set us free.

If there was peace between God and First Adam, before he fell, then this term of reconcile fits the same individual. Jesus- Both first and last Adam



Reconciled/ katallasso/ To change mutually, to compound a difference. Used of the divine work of God, redemption. It establishes the relationship of peace with mankind which the demands of justice have hitherto prevented. It implies that gid has laid down or withdrawn wrath.



Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

5:10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

5:11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

5:13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

5:14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

5:15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

5:16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

5:17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

5:18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

5:19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

5:20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

5:21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.



God is now able to reconcile us back to him through the death of the Last Adam.

The word reconcile here is to change mutually.



Reconciliation/ hilaskomai/ It provides the satisfaction demanded by Gods justice whereby the removal of sin is obtained KATALLASO however signifies not only the removal of the demands of justice but Jesus taking upon the amends or atonement and establishing a relationship of peace between God and man.



Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.



2 Cor. 5:18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

5:19To wit, that God was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.



God was IN Christ. I do not see this is just God in a human body. When God is IN a man, this the entire man, including the spirit of a man.

We see Jesus (last Adam) as a faithful and merciful high priest in THINGS pertaining to God. Reconcile here in Hebrews is the atonement bringing us into favor with God. The DEMAND for justice has been removed.



In 2 Corinthians we see God has reconciled us to himself BY/ THROUGH Jesus.

Due to obedience of the Last Adam, it allowed God to be IN Christ thus God is reconciling the WORLD (people) unto himself.

What we see at Calvary was also the demand for justice.
First man Adam making/made peace with God through obedience as the Last Adam, the man (Jesus Christ).
Thus being MADE perfect and becoming the Savior of the World (people).
God now communes with us through Jesus by placing his spirit IN us, during the age of grace and his wrath has been held back until final judgment.

[Bandit]

4
Faithful Servant, these are some of my personal notes so you can kind of see where I am coming from. I dont ever put this much out at one time. It easy for me to say in a sentence Jesus is both the first man Adam and Last man Adam, but when you try to tie it all together it becomes perpetual and it takes YEARS.

First and Last Adam
Comparing spiritual with spiritual and flesh with flesh. (earthly with earthly).





1Cor.

15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

15:47

The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.





First Adam



First Adam was made a living soul, but not until after God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils.



Adam gets a bad rap but I like Adam. He is not such a bad guy.

Adam was the first. He was there in the beginning with God.

Got met with Adam and communed with him.

God walked with Adam and talked with him.

Adam was the beginning of man.



First Adam was given dominion over the works and creation of God. God brought the beasts and fowl to Adam and Adam named the living creatures. He named his wife Eve.

A city was named after Adam. 3:16

That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.





God is our spiritual father eternal. Adam is our earthly father, after the flesh.



Everything God made was perfect and good, even Adam.

Adam knew no sin until after he disobeyed.

God made a commandment for Adam.

Through disobedience, death was the curse of disobedience.

Adam was not deceived in the commandment, yet he fell into it.

1 Tim 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

2:14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.



After disobedience, Sin and death entered into the world

The curse of death was passed on to all his children.

Romans 5:14

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.





First Adam did not first, suffer a physical death from disobedience.

He suffered a spiritual death as God drove him out of the garden and from communion with God.

He suffered a physical death at 930 years of age.



First Adam was made subject to death by a carnal commandment.

He was also made subject to hope through the second Adam.



First Adam was without father or mother.

After the flesh, First Adam is the root of Daniel and Jesus (second Adam).



Through 42 generations of Adams seed, God creates another man made of a woman, from the womb of Mary.



42 generations of righteous seed.

Behold I come through the volume of the book it is written of me.

For him and through him (second Adam) were all things made.

Things include man.

All things are of God.



All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.



Last Adam claims to be the first and the last. Last Adam claims to be the beginning of the creation of God.

It is through the Last Adam man is made spiritual.

Last Adam was the hope.





Concerning the flesh and death and corruption



First Adams flesh saw corruption at 930 years of age.

Last Adams flesh did not see corruption.



First Adam died from disobedience to a commandment.

Last Adam died through obedience to a commandment, death of the cross.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.



Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.





hath- no more- dominion- over him



This suggests at some time previous to the resurrection, death had dominion over the Last Adam.

Last Adam died unto sin once.

First Adam- The curse of sin (disobedience) is death. Death had dominion over him.

Last Adam broke the curse by dying unto sin once. In that he liveth unto God.

Both Adams appear to have had been dominated by death.



Death could never have dominion over God, at any time.



Acts 13:

13:30But God raised him from the dead:

13:31And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.

13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,

13:33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

13:36For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

13:37But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.



now no more to return to corruption



now- no more- to return- to corruption



Last Adams flesh did not see corruption.

Now no more to return to, suggests he saw corruption (flesh) somewhere before.

First Adam saw corruption.



The potter and the clay

Jeremiah 181 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.



Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope.



This was the creatures (ADAM) hope, that he would be made again as Last Adam in the body of Jesus Christ.





The potter made it again another vessel



God made two vessels made of clay.

The first Vessel was marred.

God made the first Adams flesh, from dust

The Last Adam was made from flesh - from the womb of a woman.

Both vessels originally came from clay (dust).



Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.



In the Garden

First Adam was placed and found in a Garden.

First Adam was driven out of a Garden.

First Adam was sent out to til the land, thorns and thistles.

Last Adam was found in a Garden many times.

Praying and he was arrested in a Garden.

Last Adam suffered physical death near a Garden.

Last Adam was supposed by Mary Magdalene to be the gardener.

Last Adam wore a crown of thorns.



Time

First Adam was made a man from dust. What age is considered a man?

God breathed into his nostrils and man became a living soul.

First Adam would not know the years of childhood and learning.

Last Adam was made an infant from a flesh birth.

Last Adam knew the years of childhood to adulthood.

Last Adam died at the age of a man as supposed between 30 and 40.

930 and 33, with years in the balance, is a millennium.



Before the world was

John 17:5

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.



2889 kosmos kos'-mos probably from the base of 2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):--adorning, world.



World can include the inhabitants within.

World can also include people.

First Adam would also have known the Father in some type of glory, before the world was. Before there were any other inhabitants (people).

[Bandit]

4b
I am sorry about that, I could not get it all in one page

Last Adam


15:21

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

15:23

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

15:24

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Note: here we see Jesus giving the authority, rule and power back to God from whom it first came.

15:25

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Note: Here you see the man Jesus himself (Son) becoming subject to God. WHY?
that God may be ALL in ALL.



The last Adam was made a quickening spirit, after he died and was buried and was resurrected.



The last Adam (son of God) delivers the Kingdom to God, puts down his rule and authority that God gave to him. The curse of death is destroyed.

The enemy is defeated. The last Adam is manifested as God as The express image of the invisible God.

The last Adam (Jesus) shall also be subject unto God who put all things (THINGS include man) under his feet that God may be all in all.



First Adam is called Son of God in the flesh lineage in.

Last Adam is called Son of God after the spirit.



Both Adams are given this title with exact types and similarities.









Ephesians 3:3

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

3:4

Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

3:5

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;



Revelations 13:8, 17:8

The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Foundation, founding, conception, conceive

Conception, fall. Descend of the world. (people)

First Adam was the foundation of the world. (people)

Last Adam is the chief cornerstone of Gods building.







The tabernacle of God is with men.





Out of the second (LAST) Adam, comes spiritual Eve.

The body and bride of Christ.



The first man is carnal, the second man is a quickening spirit.


Do we resemble both the first and last Adam?

Are we not the same man? first carnal, then spiritual.

[winner08]

Originally Posted by Kaspar

I got the impression of what Charles DaCosta said that God is omi-present. He is everything, the whole world. Wait.....but didn't he create the world? Then that means he created himself. Hes like a growing organism. Dying and then reproducing. That sounds odd God reproducing.
Anyway thats opened lots of odd questions for me.
I'm going to have to go away and think about it.

Kasper in a way you might just be right. How's this? It is said God created the seen from the unseen, the visible from the invisible. If nothing exsited except God before creation and it said God is The father of Lights.Light being visible is engery invisible So God being light (engery) then He created everything from with in His Self. Think about this? The big bang theory is based on nothing but awhle lot of energy blowing up making the universe. I don't believe it just happen that way. Maby the big bang was part of God's plan to set up the universe.

Darren

[winner08]

Originally Posted by Ben57

I have been reading through the posts on Jesus not God – 2 and find it getting rather long and confusing, so I decided to start 3.



Bellow I have copied something that I was sent some time ago. I hope it does not offend any one. It is what some would class as a light hearted look at one aspect of the Trinity.



In my personal experience with discussing the Trinity, I have noticed 2 distinct versions of the doctrine. The first explanation of the Trinity I came across was where it is felt that Jesus actually is God so that every time some one talks about God they are referring to Jesus and the other where Jesus is said to be a distinct person but part of a “committee” of 3 that make up a “Godhead” where Jesus is separate, the Father is separate and the Holy Spirit is separate but act as one, and all three are equal in age bur not necessarily equal in knowledge.



This particular piece is directed at those that believe that Jesus is actually and the Holly Ghost is actually God and the Father is actually God. I am copying this as I received it.





THE TRINITY - A MYSTERY



Those that teach the doctrine of the trinity claim that it is a mystery. They claim that the father is God, the Son is god, and the Holy Spirit is God. How can they be three separate persons, yet not three persons; is something they can not explain, yet they insist that any who want to be saved must accept by faith, because this is a mystery beyond our comprehension.



Could this be the reason why they label it a mystery?



Luke 1

; 36 say Mary and Elizabeth are relatives, in fact first cousins, and that John the Baptist is six months older then Jesus. This makes John and Jesus second cousins.



Luke 3:23 says Jesus was 30 tears old when he was baptized by John – and here is where the mystery begins.



The Trinity claims Jesus is God. This immediately makes John the Baptist God’s second cousin and makes John six months older then God. Therefore ma must have been on earth many thousand of years before God was born.



This is ridicules but it gets even better when you read Luke 3:21 & 22. John had the unspeakable privilege of baptizing his Creator, who was his second cousin, but remembers John was six months old – before his Creator was born.



The Trinity teaches that the Holy Spirit is also God. So now while John is standing there in the water – he sees God come down from heaven and sit his (that is Jesus’s) own head. That is not all. John now gets a good look at God. God is either a dove sitting on top of what looks like a man (the second cousin of John called Jesus) or, was it God (the one being baptized by John) having the dove sit upon him?



Then to his amazement John discovers that this God-dove-man is also a ventriloquist. While John stands there in disbelief, God tells a deliberate lie to the people who are watching. Obviously God doesn’t want people to know that he really is God, so he throws his voice to make it appear like someone else in heave is speaking and says “This is My Beloved Son in whom I am Well Pleased”



This is truly amazing. No wonder Trinitarians call it a Mystery and leave it at that



I hope it did not offend any one in the cynical way that it was written. When I first read it I laughed because to me it shows how silly the trinity idea is. At any rate at least it might make give some food for thought.

Ben57 before Jesus died he told His disciples that when He returned to His Father that They would be sent a comforter The Holy Spirit. I could get into this but no. The reason the disciples had to wait until Jesus returned to His Father before the Holy Spirit was sent to them. The Holy Spirit is the power of God (Jesus). Trinitarians call it a mystery and leave it at that is because the Holy Spirit is not a 3rd person. It is another one of many man made doctrins. I could send you to a web site about all the man made doctrins but I don't know how yall look upon that stuff.

Darren

[winner08]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Ben

St Jerome's Letter 15 He talks about the Godhead.

"Let us be satisfied to speak of one substance of three subsisting persons - perfect, equal and coeternal. Three elements of the GODhead, three elements, three natures, three hypostases and he asks to keep just one hypostases."

and it is written that Jesus said 'did I not tell you that Ye are GODs?'

So my view is that that Christ is in all of us, a seed, a divine spark that can grow and grow until it is all encompassing.......and Paul said Christ is within you and Jesus said 'the kingdom of GOD is within you'.

So Jesus carried the Cosmic Christ within him in the same way as we do too!

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

Sacredstar, What bible is st. jerome in? I looked through scripture and could not find jerome. The cosmic christ as you call it could be the Holy Spirit that is throught out the universe. The Holy Spirit being the Power of God Himself not a third person.

Darren

[mee]

Originally Posted by winner08

The Holy Spirit being the Power of God Himself not a third person.

Darren

What

Is the Holy Spirit?

In the Bible, God’s holy spirit is identified as God’s power in action.

Hence, an accurate translation of the Bible’s Hebrew text refers to God’s spirit as "God’s active force." (Genesis 1:2)

This concept is well supported throughout the Bible.—Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35; Acts 10:38.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

What

Is the Holy Spirit?

In the Bible, God’s holy spirit is identified as God’s power in action.

Hence, an accurate translation of the Bible’s Hebrew text refers to God’s spirit as "God’s active force." (Genesis 1:2)

This concept is well supported throughout the Bible.—Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35; Acts 10:38.

May the "force" be with you. In the mean time, I'll bask in the Holy Spirit, daily.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

May the "force" be with you. .

GODS SPIRIT is a force in motion, and i do like to be active in the work of the lord . and i do pray for Gods spirit .

its the only way to endure matthew 24;13

[BlaznFattyz]

If the Holy Spirit were merely a force, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2);He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); and He would not have a will (1 Cor. 2:11). The truth is that the Holy Spirit is a person the same as the Father and the Son are within the Trinity.

[Dream]

Just because Christians say 'The Holy Spirit says' or 'The Holy Spirit comforts' does not mean this or that. It doesn't mean you are right or I am wrong. The Holy Spirit is dispensed in many ways as we have need. Any person's words will have errors. That is why a 'Comforter' is needed in the first place. Christians often use action verbs with the word 'Scripture' just like with the Holy Spirit, because it is a useful figure of speech.

• ]Romans 9:17 For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "I have raised you up
• Galations 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith
• Galations 3:22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin

Men desire to have a human leader, but this does not honor God who is the only legitimate leader. That is what Jesus is saying about his leaving -- that we could not have the Holy Spirit as a comforter if he stayed, and he saw that the Holy Spirit must comfort us individually to accomplish certain things. In other words if Jesus had stayed, certain things could not be accomplished; since we would have his comfort instead of the Holy Spirit's comfort. This is also what he was talking about with Nicodemus. As far as Nicodemus knew, the Holy Spirit came through Moses and Jesus baptism by water -- not individually. To him, you knew who was a believer and who wasn't! Of the Holy Spirit Jesus says it is the Comforter he will send, but he also talks about us who are alive that "They have Moses and the Prophets. Let them listen to them." Notice that Moses and the Prophets, who are written down on paper, are considered the Holy Spirit for many purposes.

born by Word of Truth = born by Spirit

• James 1:18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth...
• John 3:5 ...born of water and the Spirit

filling with power of Holy Spirit and filling of Scripture similar or same

• Acts 4:31 ...they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness.
• YLT Acts 18:24 ...a man of eloquence, being mighty in the Writings, came to Ephesus,

Nicodemus and the wind comparison

• John 3:6-9 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be born anew.' The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit." Nicodemus said to him, "How can this be?"

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

If the Holy Spirit were merely a force, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2);He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); and He would not have a will (1 Cor. 2:11). The truth is that the Holy Spirit is a person the same as the