Jesus is not God....part 2 - Page 7

inhumility · 09-22-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

The greatist proof of Jesus not being God can be sumed up in this one verse John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time...King James 1611 edition.

Sir, if King James Version, 1611 edition, is available online?
Thanks

mee · 09-22-2006, 05:12 PM

"Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness." (Ge 1:26) God was not talking to himself here , he was talking to his first-born son , the one who was in heaven with his father and that first born was Jesus in his pre-human life . so the bible harmonizes throughout when the accurate understanding is applied.
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. John1;1 yes Jesus was a master worker everything was created through Jesus , but Jesus was the only thing created by Jehovah himself that is why Jesus is the only-begotten he is the only thing created by Jehovah alone , every thing else is created though Jesus.
then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. proverbs 8;30-31

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was................ yes even before the world was Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah

Dor · 09-22-2006, 05:14 PM

Wish people would just post the whole verse.
1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

http://bibledatabase.net/html/kjv/index.html
http://etext.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

And esword has a version of 1611 KJV for there program at.
http://www.e-sword.net/

Dor · 09-22-2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

"Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness." (Ge 1:26) God was not talking to himself here , he was talking to his first-born son , the one who was in heaven with his father and that first born was Jesus in his pre-human life . so the bible harmonizes throughout when the accurate understanding is applied.
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. John1;1 yes Jesus was a master worker everything was created through Jesus , but Jesus was the only thing created by Jehovah himself that is why Jesus is the only-begotten he is the only thing created by Jehovah alone , every thing else is created though Jesus.
then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. proverbs 8;30-31

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was................ yes even before the world was Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Sorry Mee. Jesus was not a created being and just because the NWT changes that verse does not make it so.

Dor · 09-22-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Just one small question Mee. Exactly how many gods are there?

BlaznFattyz · 09-22-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

just keep it simple... the bible is not complicated, it is not mystic, it is not ambiguous, you just have to believe what God is saying and quit injecting preconceived notions, culture, and frivolous religion practices into that which is pure. Christianity is having a personal relationship with the living God.

taijasi · 09-22-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

just keep it simple... the bible is not complicated, it is not mystic, it is not ambiguous, you just have to believe what God is saying and quit injecting preconceived notions, culture, and frivolous religion practices into that which is pure. Christianity is having a personal relationship with the living God.

Quite honestly, blazn, most of these statements are some of the most hilarious stuff I think I've seen in a long time!

"The bible is not mystic" ... I'll have to remember that one! lol

And this business of "injecting" things into "that which is pure" ... I mean, come on, what is it with these people that can't swallow the good, plain ENGLISH right there between the covers of the KJV, the way God WROTE IT!!!

Geez, you'd think some people just can't read.

I mean, get with the program, folks.

And the NEXT person who tries to think about something around here - WOE be unto you. I can just feel the almighty gettin' a lightning-bolt ready, and the steam's a comin' from his brow. NO THINKING. This is entirely uncalled for!

You know blazn, your last sentence seemed to convey your point quite nicely.

But umm, let's see, we have the various Sacred Scriptures of the Jews, combined with all sorts of mistranslations, rehashings, misinterpretations, edits and cropped portions of the early Christians ... run through 2000 years of MANmade history ... and you call this book "not ambiguous?" Right. And I'm Abraham Lincoln. Nice to meet you.

taijasi

Dor · 09-22-2006, 08:16 PM

Ouch such bitterness that the Christians are not just falling into line where they want us.

taijasi · 09-22-2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Ouch such bitterness that the Christians are not just falling into line where they want us.

No bitterness, just sarcasm. And you're probably right. Sorry, the expectation to think ... may be asking too much. Nevermind ...

Okay, okay. Maybe some disappointment.

But it's a karmic thing, as much as anything. Sorry, just reflecting out loud.

taijasi

Terrence · 09-23-2006, 12:01 AM

Ever read C.S. Lewis' "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord," documents? Its a good place to start off if you want to know (from an interlectual perspective) if Jesus is God or not. But, if you want to cut through the case and get right into it, I suggest that you Repent (turn from sins and turn to God) and Trust (have real faith) in the Savior [Jesus]. If you could do this, God will give you a new heart and change you and you will KNOW God rather than thinking you know Him. Until then, Christianity is always going to be foolish and a stumbling block to you. All that said, if you dont want to do any of that, you can take my word for it. Whats my words? Jesus IS God.

No, He's not the Father, nor is He the Spirit, but He is nonetheless God. He's the 2nd person within the Trinty that makes up the Triune Godhead. Jesus died to save law breakers (sinners) from God. And no, thats not a contradiction.

The Lord · 09-23-2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Knowing the eventual outcome of a situation, does not alleviate the discomfort of having to go through unpleasant steps in order to come to the conclusion of that situation. Because Jesus put on the mantle of man (and all that entails), ensures us that He experienced every aspect of suffering that man would.

By the way, every action has an affect on everything else, regardless of how insignificant it seems based on any particular perspective (that includes shooting the universe with a 9mm projectile).

Finally, Jesus did descend into hell, and remained there for three days. What is more impressive however is that He rose out of that place, and released a lot of souls from there, along the way.

v/r

Q

Ok, I've written and then erased my response many times because I cannot find a way to make not sound condescending if not a bit insulting. So I am sorry for not speaking my mind freely. All I can say simply is that in the context of God, with a capital G, God or any portion thereof, if you are so inclined, cannot suffer, period. If He did then He might as well be a masochist, have a depression, or commit suicide. I know, I know, everything is possible!

As for the suffering as a man portion of your answer, then explain this to me as an aside, and do not take it as an attack. As the story goes, when they opened the tomb of Jesus they did not find his body in it. I presume they found his shroud which is the basis for the legend behind the shroud of Turin, and many others. Now, does this tell us that Jesus was resurrected, as the word implies, in the body but without signs of the torture except what Hollywood portrays as the wounds from nailing his hands and feet to the cross (as a sign, I presume)? So, his body, even before transformation into divinity because he had not been to the Father yet, was not like our human bodies. It healed instantly when they closed the tomb as Mel Gibson showed us in one very good cinematic trick. I know I do not heal in a couple of hours from deep cuts and sever wounds, not to mention death. So, is it possible that such a super body, much like Superman, did not feel pain or suffering the same way we regular humans do? And if he did at his own, or the Father’s, choosing then it is not the same as when you and I feel pain? Also, his body of flesh was later transformed into something else, something divine, but without shedding itself. No one has ever claimed that they either had found his body of flesh discarded somewhere or that they saw his body of flesh vanish into dust of light like when Scotty beams us humans on Star Trek. I know that our normal bodies do not transform into something else other than worm food and lots of water. In summary, could you concede that as far as half Gods go he probably did not suffer at all even in the flesh? As for appearances, what did you expect as a performance from a divine actor? It must have been a great chance for him to show off his divine talents. A one in an eternal-time chance to impress his Father. But in the end, an actor does not really suffer in his/her performances. It is all make belief and at the end of the work day they go home safe to their spouses and children, if any.

Again, forget the first part of my response, but please respond to my second part. Forgive my style as I am not being a bad boy but my normal self is much sarcastic.

BigBang · 09-23-2006, 01:29 PM

READ THIS. ACTS 2/22. "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know". THERE IS NO QUESTION JESUS WAS A MAN AND NOT GOD, WHEN GOD HIMSELF IS STATING THAT. HOW CAN WE CREATE BELIEFS WHICH ARE ACTUALLY CONTRDICTING TO GOD'S WORDS. MOREEVER JESUS NOWHERE IN BIBLE ACTUALLY HIMSELF SAID THAT HE IS GOD OR HE SAID WORSHIP ME DIRECTLY. ITS ONLY US WHO KEEP ON CORREPTING THE RELIGION AS WE WISH TO SEE IT.

kenod · 09-23-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBang

READ THIS. ACTS 2/22. "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know". THERE IS NO QUESTION JESUS WAS A MAN AND NOT GOD, WHEN GOD HIMSELF IS STATING THAT. HOW CAN WE CREATE BELIEFS WHICH ARE ACTUALLY CONTRDICTING TO GOD'S WORDS. MOREEVER JESUS NOWHERE IN BIBLE ACTUALLY HIMSELF SAID THAT HE IS GOD OR HE SAID WORSHIP ME DIRECTLY. ITS ONLY US WHO KEEP ON CORREPTING THE RELIGION AS WE WISH TO SEE IT.

Jesus is both man and God. He is the body in which God dwells: "the image of the invisible God."

Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form (NIV)

BigBang · 09-23-2006, 03:16 PM

that does not implies that jesus was God. just think it yourself why did jesus not say it himself that he was God or worship me, while this is supposed to be the basis of the our religion. why? only because he wasnt and it was madeup later on purposely.

jesus says John 14/28 for my Father is greater than I.
John 10/29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
Mathew 12/28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God.
dont you think here jesus was actually telling that the God is somone other than him.

and also consider these, God isnt joking or telling lies here.
deuteronomy 5/7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Exudus 20/3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

mee · 09-23-2006, 03:27 PM

Jesus certainly occupied a special place of favor with his father Jehovah, the most intimate place to be would be in the bosom postion and that is where he was as the bible tells us
.To be in such a bosom position of another at a banquet was indeed to occupy a special place of favor with someone. So the apostle John, whom Jesus dearly loved, "was reclining in front of Jesus’ bosom," and in such a position he "leaned back upon the breast of Jesus" and privately asked him a question at the celebration of the last Passover.—Joh 13:23, 25; 21:20.
At banquets or large feasts in the time of Jesus’ couches were placed around three sides of a table.
To be in the "bosom position" in relation to someone else reclining at a meal meant being in front of him and would also signify having his favor. (Joh 13:23) The individual having a person in the bosom position could easily carry on a confidential conversation with him. to be seated next to someone we like talking to would be a nice thing to do at a meal. so when the bible tells us Jesus was in the bosom postion he was in a very priviledged postion next to his Father Jehovah
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. John 1;18 yes Jesus in his pre-human life was well and truely close his father , and they were very close and Jesus knew all about his father Jehovah. but as bigbang says, Jesus was not God