Jesus died: we're all saved?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

I am a rare case of Christian so I can only speak for myself. I have never believed Jesus is God, but rather the Son of God and the first begotten of the father spiritually. I see God the same way the Jews see Him.
I see Jesus as an intercessor and a mediator between God and man.

I believe he was a man (son of man) with the spirit of a mortal man who was the first to be given the indwelling of the spirit of God making him (Son of God). In other words BEGOTTEN of the father, because God begets the spirit of men. (like a spirit of adoption)
He begets us all, the same way, only Jesus was the first.
Jesus is also the firstborn from the dead, in that God raised Jesus up from mortality to immortality.

I do believe he is the Messiah and Savior and that he was here to manifest the invisible God in his life and to show us there is a God, so that we can SEE God through and in him. I see Jesus as more than just a prophet.

I see the blood of Jesus reaches all of the righteous in the O.T., and in the N.T. clear up to today.

Here is one thing Jesus said about what you are asking. I hope this helps a little.

Luke12:8Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:12:9But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. 12:10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Hello Bandit,

I can appreciate your view. I also recall a point where God the Father spoke out loud about Jesus (shortly after his choice to be baptised by his cousin John). He said, "This is my son, in whom I am pleased..." (paraphrased).

The personal "ownership" of one being for another did not go unnoticed on me. It reminds me of a time when I overheard neighbors commenting about me being my father all over again. Yes, I am different than my Dad, but I am also him in many ways. One could say I have my father in me, and I am in him. Unique, but the same.

Just a thought.

v/r

Q

[Dor]

Faithfulservant check your PMs.

[Sinner]

Almost all philosophies will agree that the human condition is one of torment. I am a christian and I will agree with that. Jesus did not come to instantly fix the world. Jesus loves us in the way that he wants to work with us in helping our human condition. Jesus didn't say that I'm going to die you are all saved, he said I'm going to die so that you might be saved. WE HAVE TO CHOOSE GOD; life seems to be harder now that I'm a christian, but it is more complete, fuller. I don't think that the point of life is to make it as good as it can be, the point of life is to make it as full as it can be through living with Jesus. Through the cross, and the cross only is this made possible. His love for you.

[Kaspar]

Almost all philosophies will agree that the human condition is one of torment

not mine

[khut]

Originally Posted by aladdin

Brian-I have had similar questions like this. I have spent a lot of time reading the Bible, reading the different translations and trying to figure out how the Bible was put together. Basically, what I have discovered is it is a completley illogical religion and faith(although a part of me does believe in it). A lot of people try to explain their beliefs in christianity very abstractly or metaphorically and lately there is a lot of mixing in "spirituality" with general christian beliefs is what I have found.


Generally, from what I know there are two views on this.
Yes, Jesus died for all sin, for everyone's sin as JM said and that it is up to US to choose whether we are going to believe in him and take his offer up for him to be a sacrifice.
OR-(to me this is more logical) Jesus only died for HIS people. His people were "chosen" before the earth was created-he died for their sins.
Now, here is something I grappled with before discovering how "messily" the christian writings were put together-\

If god is loving, and all knowing, then when he created everyone, he knew some people were just going to be "made" to go to hell, I guess you could argue that somehow at the time of creation he gave us this opportunity to choose on our own, separate from him but I don't buy this because when he created us he would have known our entire psychology and where we would end up which means

there are a lot of people who basically were just created to spend eternity in hell.

how is this a kind God? well from God's point of view (which is the true one right) I guess God could say this is

The bible contradicts itself a lot, Jesus says I have a new law, Jesus also says Whoever does not follow the old laws (it is really bad or wahtever) but his new law contradicts the old law

A lot of the Bible is based on Paul's writings (the new testament) Paul NEVER knew Jesus!! He used to torture the Christians and kill them before becoming converted, after Jesus's death. Also St.Augustine's writings ahd a huge influence. It is so bizarre to me because so much of what Christian's say is not in the Bible. And the old testament also technically has two creation stories, plus Constantine supposedly burned down all these libraries with some of the original writings on Christianity when he converted, also Gnosticism I believe had a heavy influnece on the Mormon religion which is interesting.\

Then when you look at christianity not only do you have all these different translations you have orthodox, protestant, catholic, it is Very confusing!!!
After reading an interesting book on Angels, they talked about how Yawheh (or however you spell it) was actually the Devil in some of the original texts, he was the God of the material world, and somehow it got confused and people started thinking it was the God to worship. I don't know how true it was but the book was very interesting.

Speak(ing) of the Devil
In Sufi texts there is a tale that originially when God created the angels (lucifer included) that he told the angels Only bow down to me...
Well, when God created man, he asked the angels to bow down to man,
Not wanting to disobey God's original commandment, and because Lucifer loved God so much he only wanted to bow down to God, Lucifer did not bow to man.

keeping in mind God's easily provoked anger) God punished Lucifer by separating him from God for ever.

To Lucifer, this was the most horrid thing since he loved God so much, so humans became his vilest enemy since they had been the cause of his banishment, separate from God forever....

this is one smart guy. everything he said is true, and to whoever it was asked if he was more compassionate and loving than God is. The answer to that is clearly We all are. God killed and tortured his own son to prove a point. he could of forgiven everyone without doing that but noooo.
and whats with asking some poor sheep farmer to kill his first born. and what about drowning everyone, or condeming many thousands of people to eternal pain and suffering because they wouldnt kiss his ass.