Jesus and Scripture

[Sacredstar]

The NIV is bringing many questions to the fore and I feel this passage is very detrimental about the OT and the teachings carried forth by the Chief Priests and Pharisees.

How does this impact on the OT for you?

Matthew 21:40-45 NIV

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

He asks the question is it marvelous?

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”

So here is he not telling them the scriptures will do them harm?

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

being love

Kim xx

[Basstian]

I cant see any logic in you using scripture to say scripure is bad for me.
But just for kicks and giggles lets replace some of the key words with the word scripture and that kind of idea.
40 “Therefore, when the AUTHOR of the SCRIPTURE comes, what will he do to those READERS ?”

41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the SCRIPTURE to other READERS, who will give him his share of glory at the book signing.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The SCRIPTURE the READERS rejected has become the #1 BEST SELLER; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?
Marvelous wasnt Jesus' question it was part of the original verse. He DIDNT ASK "IS IT"
Ps 118:23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

44 He who falls on this SCRIPTURE will be broken to pieces, but he on whom SCRIPTURE falls will be crushed.”

Kind of reads a little different like that but I have to tell you I dont see these verses refering to OT scripture as much as I do Gods Kingdom. But using them the way I did fits nice into the idea that Gods word NT or OT is binding and lasting forever.
Funny it saying that if you stumble over the meaning of scripture you will be broken. And if you misuse it you and and fall under its judgment or (it falls on you) you will be crushed.

Thank you Sacred Star I would have never looked at these verse's in this light or used them as another example of how important it is to USE the WHOLE Bible in my walk with Christ.

[Bandit]

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

He was speaking here to the Pharisees who had a bad reputation of hypocrosy.
IOW-the scripture will crush them and or they will be broken to pieces because they do not truly adhere to it.
In other words, there is no way around the scriptures.

Jesus is the New Testament. The scripture is all one scripture. We can divide it properly and eat it, or it will break us into many pieces and crush us.
Depends on the person. In this case it was the pharisees he was refering to who will be crushed.

Basstian I like that the way you put scripture and readers into the blanks.

[Quahom1]

Hello Sacred.

This is what these verses tell me.

Matthew 21:40-45 NIV

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

When the Lord comes back to the people who were supposed to remain loyal and obedient to him, what shall he do with them?

41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

He will remove the chosen ones from Him, and will turn to the strangers who will gladly call Him Lord, and produce for Him according to His will.

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

The Savior the people of God rejected has become the The crowning stone of the structure of faith of God's people (the glory) I use "people of God" as a title describing a group, and "God's people" as the intimate faithful who truly look to Jesus as their savior and King.

He asks the question is it marvelous?

He makes the statement "it is marvelous in our eyes?" The way the phrase is worded imparts a statement, or confirmation. The use of the question mark here, is for the purpose of specifying wonder and awe, not asking for confirmation. In earlier forms of language the symbols used (like the question mark) had dual meanings. Querying, and astoundment, or incredulousness, or expression of incomprehension at the magnitude of something. It could indicate profound wonderment.

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Again, Jesus is informing the People of God that, His Kingdom will be opened the the Ger, strangers who accept Him. Two things here. Jesus was warning them of what they were about to lose, and goading them about their own self importance over all others. The Kingdom of God was about to be given to the grateful.

44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”

So here is he not telling them the scriptures will do them harm?

The "stone" is Jesus, who would make the proud and haugty stumble because of Him. And if He were to directly deal with them, they didn't have a prayer in the world of surviving against His might. Jesus is giving a strong hint about the end days...

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Well, at least they weren't deafened and dummed by their own arrogance and self importance, enough to realize their days of ruling (and ruining the apple of God's eye), were coming to an end.

Sacred, by the time Jesus came around, the leaders of the Jewish people (all that was left of the original tribes of Israel), had definitively contributed to the total decimation of the glory that God had planned for His chosen People.

The people of Israel were scattered, their land conquered, the remaining few subjugated to the authority of foreign "pagans", yet the leaders of the People of God were strutting around town, resting on the backs of a broken, tired, hopeless people. This must have lit a very hot ember of anger deep within Jesus. But, true to form, the Lord spoke quietly, but with aboslute conviction and subtle menace to those He considered enemies of God.

Like my father told me long ago. Don't worry about a screamer, or an oppenent who is still chest flexing, because he isn't ready or willing to fight. It is the quiet one who isn't moving but is looking straight into your eyes...that is the opponent you should be very wary of. Because he is ready to act...

Dearest Sacred. I know you have difficulty thinking of Jesus as a fighter. But consider His "righteous anger" displayed in the temple. There were hundreds of people in that place, and tables lined up with wares and money weighed hundreds if not thousands of pounds, yet Jesus cleared the house, and upturned everything inside of a few moments time, all by himself. And no one, tried, or could stop him...

But I know Jesus would much rather love us, than fight us. Let's hope we figure out that the former is much better for our wellbeing (and existence), then the latter...

v/r

Q

[Basstian]

I want to make sure this point is made about is it marvelous or it is marvelous.

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

if you look at that verse the question ends right after the word scriptures

Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures"?

He could have said "Have you never read Psalms 118:23"?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Basstian

I want to make sure this point is made about is it marvelous or it is marvelous.

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

if you look at that verse the question ends right after the word scriptures

Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures"?

He could have said "Have you never read Psalms 118:23"?

Agreed.

The statement invokes the reader (or listener), to consider the whole of scripture in general, and to see that the analogy of the capstone is repeated througout the entireity of scripture in particular (in variatians of the theme).

Second, the very use of the term "capstone" or "cornerstone", implies that all of this, everything within the realm of existence is in fact glorified by the one unique piece. By Jesus.

As an interesting aside (to me anyway), when ever I look at a building of pleasing design, my eye invariably searches to see where the "capstone" or "corner stone" is located...and what might be written on it. If I don't find one, somehow I am a bit dissapointed. Even my own home (house) has a "corner stone" with the name of the builder, and the date the house was completed...I'm pretty proud of that little bit of stone

Nice insight Basstian.

v/r

Q

[Bandit]

You guys ROCK!

Eat the whole meal and not just the pudding because it gets real unhealthy when you just eat sugar.
I also see that as ONE SCRIPTURE and ONE Word of God...the whole bread of life.
Moses commanded the children of Israel when the Passover Lamb was killed and roasted to eat ALL of it. Nothing was to be left. (Exodus 12:4)

Jesus enjoined the disciples that they should drink all of the wine that was in the cup. Matthew 26:27-28 says, “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

[Bandit]

Second, the very use of the term "capstone" or "cornerstone", implies that all of this, everything within the realm of existence is in fact glorified by the one unique piece. By Jesus.

I like that a LOT. I want all of it. All that Jesus has to say and all that He has to give. Without the cornerstone, you cant start building.


Turn these stones into bread is what the devil said. and Jesus said...

Jesus said, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4, I don't think some Christians today really stop and consider this verse. It is very specific, leaving no room for doubt. We are to live on every word out of the mouth of God.

[Basstian]

I find it awesome that Jesus spoke in private to His disiples and used as it where His own words (But Still Within The Will of the Father) But when faced with adversity of "Righteous/Religious" Men He went straight to the Scripture. He lived and breathed every verse He quoted they could not touch Him. Even at the age of 12 his knowledge of Gods word was far more advanced than theirs and they knew it and grew to hate Him for it.

He was convicted of Knowing Gods word and Living it.
This is why I dont see how anyone reading about Jesus could get the Idea that the scripture in the OT is bad Jesus clearly showed it wasn't.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Basstian

I find it awesome that Jesus spoke in private to His disiples and used as it where His own words (But Still Within The Will of the Father) But when faced with adversity of "Righteous/Religious" Men He went straight to the Scripture. He lived and breathed every verse He quoted they could not touch Him. Even at the age of 12 his knowledge of Gods word was far more advanced than theirs and they knew it and grew to hate Him for it.

He was convicted of Knowing Gods word and Living it.
This is why I dont see how anyone reading about Jesus could get the Idea that the scripture in the OT is bad Jesus clearly showed it wasn't.

Hey Bas and Bandit,

I like that a LOT. I want all of it. All that Jesus has to say and all that He has to give. Without the cornerstone, you cant start building.

Actually Bandit, without a cornerstone, one can not "finish" the building...(sorry it's the engineer in me coming out)

I think Basstian, that some with "tender" hearts and gentle souls, can't (or do not want to) accept the harshness of the times and the people, when the old testament was written (or written about/for). As bad as it is now, today's world is not even close to what it was back then (concerning barbarism and pain, and death), at least not yet... And frankly, I don't blame them.

I guess we do rock Bandit...when seated in our favorite rocking chair...

v/r

Q

[Sacredstar]

Dear Q

Interesting how we all view scripture differently.

The Jesus I know and love says this about Righteous Anger.

"Righteous Anger
can be transformed into
righteous love
and this is compasionate action."

And Jesus was betrayed in the scriptures and by the church and so he will return and speak his truth when he is ready, then the whole truth and nothing but the truth will be known.

Glory be to GOD

being love

Kim xx

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Q

Interesting how we all view scripture differently.

The Jesus I know and love says this about Righteous Anger.

"Righteous Anger
can be transformed into
righteous love
and this is compasionate action."

And Jesus was betrayed in the scriptures and by the church and so he will return and speak his truth when he is ready, then the whole truth and nothing but the truth will be known.

Glory be to GOD

being love

Kim xx

The Jesus we both know and love...tore up the Temple in minutes flat, and he was royally ticked off when he did it. And I do not blame him one bit.

v/r

Q

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The Jesus we both know and love...tore up the Temple in minutes flat, and he was royally ticked off when he did it. And I do not blame him one bit.

v/r

Q

yah and he had no problem calling out the liars and calling them liars and devils.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hey Bas and Bandit,


Actually Bandit, without a cornerstone, one can not "finish" the building...(sorry it's the engineer in me coming out)

I think Basstian, that some with "tender" hearts and gentle souls, can't (or do not want to) accept the harshness of the times and the people, when the old testament was written (or written about/for). As bad as it is now, today's world is not even close to what it was back then (concerning barbarism and pain, and death), at least not yet... And frankly, I don't blame them.

I guess we do rock Bandit...when seated in our favorite rocking chair...

v/r

Q

i thought it was the cornerstone is what it was all built on. then it says the stone they rejected has also become the head as in being first.

isn't the chief cornerstone the first stone?
or are you messing with me

rock on

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i thought it was the cornerstone is what it was all built on. then it says the stone they rejected has also become the head as in being first.

isn't the chief cornerstone the first stone?
or are you messing with me

rock on

Not messing at all...the Chief cornerstone is the last stone set in place, and marked in such a way that all who see it identify it.

I suppose the Jesus was also alluding to "and the first shall be the last, and the last shall be the first'.

v/r

Q