It's the Issues, Stupid!!

Pathless · 01-16-2008, 05:49 PM

A thread dedicated to discussion of political issues, grassroots organizing, direct action, and other means of democratic change that have nothing to do with punching a hanging chad in November. If I wanted to see a f'in horserace, I'd go to the goddamn racetrack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbara Ehrenrich

There's a problem too, of course, with the conventional abbreviation of the Civil Rights Movement into two names - Martin Luther King, Jr. and Rosa Parks. What about Fannie Lou Hamer, who led the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party's delegation to the 19464 convention? What about Ella Baker, Fred Hampton, Stokely Carmichael and hundreds of other leaders? The Great Person theory of history may simplify textbook-writing, but leaves us with no clue as to how change actually happens.

Women's rights, for example, weren't brokered by Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem over tea. As Steinem would be the first to acknowledge, the feminist movement of the 70s took root around kitchen tables and coffee tables, ignited by hundreds of thousands of now-anonymous women who were sick of being called "honey" at work and excluded from "men's" jobs. Media stars like Friedan and Steinem did a brilliant job of proselytizing, but it took an army of unsung heroines to stage the protests, organize the conferences, hand out the fliers, and spread the word to their neighbors and co-workers.

Barbara Ehrenreich: Hillary's Real MLK Problem - Politics on The Huffington Post

Yesterday I was arranging some books for sale on a table--Barack Obama's books, Hilary Clintion's books, books about MLK, Mike Huckabee's book about how to lose weight--that's right! Presidential superstar hopeful's book is about how to stop eating your way to the grave. Now I know that obesity is a real and serious problem in America, but I still find it surreally stupid that one of the books that one of the serious Republican contenders wrote has to do with food. Lest I soon become guilty of the same kind of stupid distractions that I am railing against, let me shift my focus.

How is it that we get caught up in a media blitzkrieg every fourth year, with morons and corporations shilling presidential candidates that don't represent us? Do we even need a president?? Maybe that is the burning issue of the good ol' US of A in the good ol' 2K. Maybe we need not one president, but five. Ten. Maybe we need a council of freakin' elders in this country. I'm not talking crotchety old white men, neither, but a vast spectrum of regional leaders brought together to discuss the long-standing and burning issues in their communities and nation. Wait, wait--you say we alread have that? Congress?? Hruuumph. Congress needs a rehaul, then, I'm guessing.

Back to superstar presidential politics. What about the issues?? I don't want the media to tell me Hilary Clinton cried and then, later, hear from another media source while I am driving that indeed, she did not shed a tear, but got a little choked up... WHAT?? Okay, okay, but what about the ISSUES??!!

Is Hilary going to get our soldiers out of Iraq? Is Obama? I'm not asking about the Republican candidates because it's clear that they, except Ron Paul, will not.
Can we reduce some of that bloated military budget and work on education in this country? Huh? Can we?
I want to hear Obama talk more about universal health care. I want to hear everyone talk more about universal health care. As a matter of fact, I can't subject myself to the psychic and intellectual violence of wading through the superficial Brittany Spears-laced and Presidential Two Ring Circus media to hear about it. I want these discussions on the FRONT PAGE of every major newspaper that I pass in a glass box on my way to work. I have the audacity to think that there should be at least some major media outlets out there who report what happened, not which candidate farted or wore the wrong color tie considering their political party.
What is happening in New Orleans?? The devestation and gentrification that Hurricaine Katrina brought is not going away by itself. I want fallout from this and other natural and humanitarian disasters brought back to the front page of the newspapers, too.
What about gay marriage?
We're not actually going to build a wall between Texas and Mexico, are we?
We're not going to go to war with Iran, are we?
What about jobs?
Can someone please talk about the problem of continuing colonization in a world that is plagued with racism, sexism, ageism, and capitalism??
Oh and by the way, what does my dollar actually stand for?? I would like to know what the economy that I support and that supports me--that I am embedded in like breatheable air--does to create sustainable and stimulating conditions for all life--human, animal, plant, mineral--on this planet. Can we talk about the politics of economics?

So I am concerned. I am concerned that the country I live in is indeed stupid, is indeed represented by the cultural legacy of the Jerry Springer Show. I overhear people in the grocery store check-out line talking about marriages and pregnancies, only to figure out that they are talking about far-away celebrities that they have never met and likely never will. I wonder how many unmarried women around us in this community I live in are pregnant, are struggling, are in section 8 housing? I wonder how those women's children will grow up--hungry, neglected by a culture that puts a premium on shine and glitz and horserace prezzie campaigns. Will they grow up confused and angry? Will they be taught the ever-changing skills and techniques it takes to survive in this post-industrial wilderness that we all inhabit? Will they learn love, compassion, the value of human relationships? Or will they perhaps miraculously pick themselves up by those non-existent "bootstraps" and become another engineer designing devastating tinker-toys in the perpetual war on "Terror"? Will they be one of the elect few, completely stripped of humanity, who battlecharge into the ranks of the elite rulers of this representative democracy of ours, pushing forward agendas that benefit the few, not the many? The elite, not the tired, not the poor?

How long, Lord, how long??

Paladin · 01-16-2008, 10:24 PM

Okay, first of all, take a deeeeep breath, have a little chocolate, take a hot bath and remember what you are seeing on the tube is for the rubes. You must know that what is really going on has already been decided and what you are seeing out on the campaign trail is just a show for the masses. Hmm shall I vote for the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right?

Snoopy · 01-16-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin

Hmm shall I vote for the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right?

You got one on the right and one on the left?! Amazing! We've not had that for years...

s.

flowperson · 01-17-2008, 02:33 AM

Many of us are still hoping that the "Cookie Monster" will run as an independent. He seems single minded and neither on the right or left. COOKIE !!!

flow....

Pathless · 01-17-2008, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin

Okay, first of all, take a deeeeep breath, have a little chocolate, take a hot bath and remember what you are seeing on the tube is for the rubes. You must know that what is really going on has already been decided and what you are seeing out on the campaign trail is just a show for the masses. Hmm shall I vote for the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right?

That should outrage you. Why doesn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snoopy

You got one on the right and one on the left?! Amazing! We've not had that for years...

That should outrage you!!

Hell, I'd vote for the Cookie Monster if he ran. He has to have more brains than the current infant playing Risk in the oval office.

Seriously, this country is stupid.
Short sighted
and
very stupid.

And staring at this computer screen is making me stupid. It's like eating lead paint: the internet, these forums. Dumb dumb dumb.

Why does everyone seem so complacent??

Apologies in advance to everyone, but I don't know how else to express my ongoing indignation here.

path_of_one · 01-17-2008, 04:58 AM

Oh, there are lots of us ticked off. I'm one of them. We just don't know what to do about it in the four hours each evening we have between getting home from work and going to sleep.

I'd like to ask: can someone tell me if we're ever going to be really capitalist? If we're not, can we just own up to that fact and quit making believe that we are?

Does anyone seriously think that going to war in ever-more places is going to lead to peace?

Is anyone dumb enough to think Al-Qaeda is like a country that we can just go to war with and win? Hello, people- a terrorist organization is not the same thing structurally and it doesn't just go away when you get rid of its leaders! Anyone have a plan for how to actually FIX the terrorism issue- that is, fix the roots of WHY people become terrorists?

Can anyone explain their plan for helping us become in line with the education and health care standards every other first world (and many third world) countries have? When even the people I know making $100K a year are struggling to pay their insurance and health care bills, you know there is a problem. When people are electing to have major surgery in INDIA because it is CHEAPER than using their insurance in the US, you know there is a problem.

Can anyone make it clear to me how anyone can claim they are pro-life and that life is sacred, yet be pro-war, pro-capital punishment? How is this logical? Either life is sacred, or it isn't, or it only is if it is a baby. I want people to quit hiding behind illogical statements that the vast majority of people dumbly accept without question. While we're at it, what the heck is up with Bush being against stem-cell research but for in vitro fertilization. HELLO?! The embryos are PRODUCED by in vitro fertilization, dummy, and then the ones not used are A) indefinitely frozen (which basically means they are not allowed to live), B) thrown away like garbage or C) used in research. Personally, if life is sacred and embryos are human life, can they at least contribute to other human life through research and therefore have meaning? Or can there be some logical consistency and can the anti-stem cell crowd also be against in vitro fertilization? And is anyone in that crowd someone who has or has a close loved one with Parkinsons or other diseases that are projected to be cured by this research?

Can we discuss why we're one of the few first world nations that have the death penalty and incarcerate a gazillion people (at great cost to all of us, by the way) but somehow we STILL have higher crime rates, especially violent crime, than most other first world countries? Most of the people I know from Europe are shocked that we have so many kidnappers, pedophiles, murderers. WHY? And why do we all buy into fearing terrorism as the major threat to our lives, when clearly we're all much more likely to die from lack of quality health care or at the hands of one of our own (either through the stupidity of something like DUI or the maliciousness of violent crime)? Does it make the public feel better to externalize their fear and blame it on some far-off country or people? Because it isn't fixing anything and it doesn't make me feel better.

I can't stand the presidential race with all the posturing and sound bites and Television crap. There was some huge discussion at one point about Hillary's cleavage because she wore what was in my opinion was a highly conservative top that managed to give a hint that she actually might have boobs. My God! (Literally, I cry out to Him in my frustration.) Can we just move ON with things and actually get to the issues rather than who had an affair, who has boobs, who is biracial, and all these other things that don't MATTER?!

You know... it is the American public's fault. The media just sells what sells. The politicians pander to whatever people want to hear. Americans want to (apparently) hear about this crap, along with whatever celebrities are doing/wearing/saying and incessant articles about dieting and people's sex lives. I don't even bother getting the paper or watching the news anymore, because it's a load of horsecrap that is A) boring and B) stupid and C) depressing.

In the meantime, I just keep trying to figure out local ways to help out. I gave up on policy and politics a long time ago, and to be honest, I kind of gave up on my fellow Americans. It seems like most of us who bother to care are overwhelmed with too much need, not enough resources to help, and a disillusion that anything we do will matter in changing policy. The rest of the folks are either too poor to have any time to care, too uneducated to realize the scope of the issues or challenge what is spoon-fed to them, or too apathetic to bother, preferring to watch whatever the latest crappy reality show is and debate about who should get kicked off next.

I'd never start this thread, but it makes me feel better to type up my rant. Thanks. Now I can go back to ignoring it all and trying to do a little good locally...

Path

wil · 01-17-2008, 05:33 AM

I remember Socrates (plato) saying somewhere along the line that we wouldn't hire a brick mason to do fine carpentry or something to that effect. In regards to the fact that we need professional politicians, and rather than get into politics himself as one man, he thought he'd spend time teaching and developing politicians.

Paladin · 01-17-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathless

That should outrage you. Why doesn't it?

That should outrage you!!

Hell, I'd vote for the Cookie Monster if he ran. He has to have more brains than the current infant playing Risk in the oval office.

Seriously, this country is stupid.
Short sighted
and
very stupid.

And staring at this computer screen is making me stupid. It's like eating lead paint: the internet, these forums. Dumb dumb dumb.

Why does everyone seem so complacent??

Apologies in advance to everyone, but I don't know how else to express my ongoing indignation here.

What makes you think I'm not angry about all this? I've had many more years to be angry at the guberment and just getting a little philosophical about it. I see more tin foil hatters running themselves into the ground over the shadow government, the Bilderberg group etc etc...
The only thing we can do is try to spread the word here on the internet and among friends at a grass roots level because politics just doesn't work. I applaud the efforts of people like Alex Jones (Endgame) for trying to wake people up.

Keep posting, keep ranting, what used to be science fiction is becoming reality. Orwell might have been a prophet and Vonnegut seemed to understand where all this may be heading. Americans seem to be easily distracted with wishy washy entertainment and seemingly big issues that shouldn't be before the Federal Government anyway. When the Gay Marriage issue hit the papers it was just a way of taking attention away from where it should be. An important issue? yes but let's face it we got bigger fish to fry first!

flowperson · 01-17-2008, 05:57 PM

Well, I do have to admit that my cookie monster proposal was facetious.

Two Paths, I appreciate your rants and reminding me of who and what I was thirty years ago. I've written these things in essays. I've passed them on to important people who knew who I was and where I had been to reach my verifiable conclusions. No one in "authority" has had the courage or moral fortitude to question my conclusions, except through surrogates. Our belief systems are mired in the concrete of the past, and our dreams for the future are being systematically destroyed for our own good (in the opinion of our betters).

I have appeared in Who's Whos because of what I've written. No matter, all that has happened to me personally is the loss of meaningful work, the shredding of my life with two good women, the almost total loss of my assets twice, and the denial of passing on what I know and feel to my two children, which of course is the greatest crime against humans. In short it has been the almost total sabotaging of an otherwise quite ordinary human life.

We live in an age where technological systems determine and direct almost every aspect of our lives, while the illusion of freedom is desparately maintained for the benefit of the controllers. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the truth of our situation. When one is subjugated under such systems, one lives a life of eternally having one's fantasies fed, and at the same time having one's dreams methodically murdered.

How did we get here ? What does it mean for our children ? How do we approach an overhaul of reality ? What is reality ? I'm with you Paladin my friend. These days I'm content to watch the detrius of our collective stupidity accumulate and wonder just where and when the tipping points will be reached and real change happens.

I'm still writing my version of the truth however, even though it is disguised as fiction and I am forced to watch others suffer at the hand of the cruel and heartless because of my personal quest for meaning. All of you, just follow your hearts and bliss and do what you believe to be right and true. In the end, this will all pass away only if enough of us do just that. What we all are really watching and living in these times is the eternal struggle between those who believe in the enslavement of and those who believe in freedom for the soul of Humanity.

flow....

Snoopy · 01-17-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathless

That should outrage you!!

I didn't say I found the political climate healthy; I do not. The political class in the UK is separate from the populace, this is now the great divide, no longer is it between the left and the right. This will change eventually and perhaps in a manner not benign.

Of course Pathless you are free to feel what you will and express it accordingly; as am I.

s.

Pathless · 01-17-2008, 10:44 PM

Paladin, Flow, and Snoopy; Path of One; Wil; Lurkers and Readers:

Yes, of course. I think I knew (somewhere in my subjugated mind) yesterday that y'all (P/F/S) are just looking at the situation from a different, calmer perspective, and that we don't disagree. I know we don't disagree. But I still get pissy about the continuing heartlessness, injustise, and toxic stupidity that pours from the machinery of western civilization. Sometimes having calmer heads around isn't exactly what I need.

For this reason, it was very nice to read the other Path's rage on the page here. I still want to see more of this from people! We all need to see/hear/taste more outrage. Yes, the revolution is not being televised, but YES it is going on. I know this, even in isolation and despair, because I have the privelege to read widely and observe and seek out media that does serve me.

Still, the revolting ignorance and pomp of the election circus has caught me off guard. NOTHING meaningful is happening, it seems, candidates like Dennis Kucinich who actually might have something to offer the American People and the World are being quietly sidelined/disqualified, and the workings of the electoral process are more obscure than ever--either that, or I'm simply paying more attention than before--or a combination of these things.

I'll be discontent, still, I know, no matter who gets into office to replace the current cunning illusionist(s) who has/have been running and ruining Oz for the past 8 years. But as the Beatles do say, "Things are getting better all the time," at least from certain perspectives.

There's a lot of work to do, and it becomes clearer and clearer to me in times like these that the personal is political and indeed that that is perhaps the only sphere in which I can truly create change. I'm glad Path brought up the importance of local, direct action. I think part of my rage comes from knowing that there is a farce happening on the national televised stage and there is really very very very litttle--really absolutely nothing besides tossing out a very probably meaningless vote in several months--that I can do about it. I'm also very pissed off because part of the illusion of this national televised farce is that everything is hunky-dorey, and the people are okay with it, let's go shopping.

People are not okay with it.
People are very much upset.
People are also tired and disillusioned. This fight has been going on for a long, long time. It's a veritable centuries-old war of class struggle for the soul of humanity and the Earth.
I get that. That makes me even more pissed. And so yes, thank you very much, I will keep ranting, raving, digging, progressing, digesting, shoring up more and more resources and re-investing those in beautiful communities of passion, compassion, intelligence, and wisdom.

Soon enough, some day, the current power structure will collapse and rot beyond reapir, and new, diverse organic sources of meaning and power will bloom and flourish, having already taken root. Those power sources are rooted now, growing, nourishing, blooming.

We've got the internets and stuff, too, as well as traditional print media that has become more accessible and diversified. And we've got the teevee. If we can figure out how to use that one properly, whooo dawgy! The revoltion won't need to be televised at that point, 'cuz it will be ongoing.

Yes, we all wield power every moment of our lives. That power is our lives and how we choose to live them moment-to-moment, day by day.

In Peace, Creativity, and Solidarity,

Pathless

flowperson · 01-17-2008, 11:02 PM

Pathless, what an excellent post my brother. You might be gratified to learn that my favorite cartoon for those past thirty years has been one of two vultures sitting on a dead tree limb. One turns to the other and says, "Patience hell...I'm going to go out and kill something !"

My second favorite cartoon is of two penguins standing and facing each other, but one of them has been half swallowed head first by a very large orange fish. The observing penguin says to the one being swallowed, "Relax...G-d's in charge."

Actually, I like them equally well and believe in the truth of each.

flow....

wil · 01-18-2008, 12:33 AM

While we screw up regularly and we can choose to look at the negative in every situation and illuminate the problems instead of the successes, I prefer not to.

While we've spent trillions blowing things up, we've spent billions more than anyone else building things up.

We here at interfaith like to think we like to focus on similarities, on getting along thru discussion.

Why can't we put our energy into the same regard here? Want change, be the change you want to see. Want anger and ranting and over the top ridiculousness, be that.

Yes become political if you wish rather than rant, or rant if you wish. Will ranting, protesting change things, or will being part of the change?

Pathless · 01-18-2008, 01:53 AM

wil, the problem that I have with that rosey-eyed view is that I firmly believe that no change happens without agitation. Outrage is crucial to create change. Ranting is part of the change.

How about, "Be the outrage you wish to see in the world"? I think that sums it up for me sometimes.

--P

wil · 01-18-2008, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathless

How about, "Be the outrage you wish to see in the world"? I think that sums it up for me sometimes.

You are right, it does sum it up.

I've got no desire to see a world outraged.