islamic tradition of non-violence?

[bananabrain]

i would like to ask a question about sources in the Qur'an and hadith which support the idea of an islamic tradition of "non-violence", or non-retaliation. i am particularly interested in:

1. the episode where muhammad gets stoned by the worshippers of al-lat in taif and then declines to take gabriel up on his offer of angelic retaliation.

2. sources for the sufi story of the old man who was beaten up by a rich man and then said "may you have everything you wish for", said to be based upon the example of muhammad.

3. the episode where muhammad sits with his unpleasant and abusive jewish neighbour on the latter's deathbed.

i would also be interested in (hopefully positive) responses from indian/pakistani/bangladeshi islamic scholars in particular, but islamic thinkers in general to gandhi's doctrine of satyagraha ( Satyagraha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) which he explicitly considered to be an expression of jihad.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[zaim187]

Do you want the background of each event or Quranic ayats or hadith that support it? Salaam

[bananabrain]

i would like the sources, the ayat and the hadith, then i will be able to ask sensible questions.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Seeker_of_truth]

Forgive my meager contribution, i quickly found this:

"There is no compulsion in religion."

(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 2)


EDIT:s
If you wish to quickly scan the Qu'ran and Hadiths, ive found Ocean to be a good free online library of every major world religious scripture on the planet.

Ocean can be downloaded from Ocean - World Religions Free Research Library

[bananabrain]

i'm a bit disappointed by the lack of interest so far - come on muslims, i'm always being told "islam" is another word for "peace"; what about it?

b'shalom

bananabrain

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

i'm a bit disappointed by the lack of interest so far - come on muslims, i'm always being told "islam" is another word for "peace"; what about it?

Originally Posted by bananabrain

b'shalom
bananabrain

Hi
Please surf through the website:Al Islam Online - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
If you encounter any difficulty, I am here to explain to you, but may be by copy/paste from that site, one should be careful from bananabrain, I know.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam

[bananabrain]

thank you, inhumility, but i am looking for specific sources from the Qur'an, ayat and hadith. i don't mind cut-and-paste from specific sources, as long as we're talking about a short paragraph, not reams and reams. and in reference to the site you point me at, that's not specific enough. i'm not going to hunt through the entire ahmadi community site (which is the same site you always point everyone at no matter what question is asked) in hopes of stumbling upon the right thing. if you give me a more specific link (or someone actually answers my earlier question) i'm more likely to visit it.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[wil]

Namaste BB.

I clicked twice and stumbled on this from his link....there are a number of quotes included..

[bananabrain]

ok, well, that's all well and good, but even if the sources are mainstream, there's still more than enough wiggle room provided to allow for them to be interpreted to allow violence applied with judgement, which is not what i'm asking. furthermore, i would actually like a mainstream sunni viewpoint, i don't know if we have any shi'a on the board, actually, but am interested in those opinions as well. ahmadi opinions are, i know, hardly regarded as authoritative or normative even by many here and i am looking for something that would be acceptable at, say, al-azhar. it's all very well for the ahmadis to big their non-violent credentials up, but they're a minority (and, moreover, considered heretical by many, not that that is any of my business) and i'm looking for majority opinions.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

ok, well, that's all well and good, but even if the sources are mainstream, there's still more than enough wiggle room provided to allow for them to be interpreted to allow violence applied with judgement, which is not what i'm asking. furthermore, i would actually like a mainstream sunni viewpoint, i don't know if we have any shi'a on the board, actually, but am interested in those opinions as well. ahmadi opinions are, i know, hardly regarded as authoritative or normative even by many here and i am looking for something that would be acceptable at, say, al-azhar. it's all very well for the ahmadis to big their non-violent credentials up, but they're a minority (and, moreover, considered heretical by many, not that that is any of my business) and i'm looking for majority opinions.
b'shalom
bananabrain

Well thank you for your appreciation, and that was expected. Truth is truth, it is never thought of in terms of minority or majority or normative. When nobody was responding to your satisfaction only then I offered myself to provide. Goodluck,please
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi, a peaceful faith in Islam

[bananabrain]

look, inhumility, the status of ahmadiyya and mirza ghulam ahmad is not a matter for me; it is not my business whether you guys are considered heretical or not by the sunni and shi'a (and ismailis and so on) but if i start trying to have a conversation with a sunni or shi'a about this and s/he finds out my sources are ahmadi, then immediately s/he can say "oh, well, what do you expect of that lot, they're not proper muslims". as i say, that is not my concern, but it harms my ability to have the discussion.

i remain, however, presently disappointed that none of the brothers and sisters here who are so vociferous on other subjects see fit to respond on this one.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

look, inhumility, the status of ahmadiyya and mirza ghulam ahmad is not a matter for me; it is not my business whether you guys are considered heretical or not by the sunni and shi'a (and ismailis and so on) but if i start trying to have a conversation with a sunni or shi'a about this and s/he finds out my sources are ahmadi, then immediately s/he can say "oh, well, what do you expect of that lot, they're not proper muslims". as i say, that is not my concern, but it harms my ability to have the discussion.

Originally Posted by bananabrain

i remain, however, presently disappointed that none of the brothers and sisters here who are so vociferous on other subjects see fit to respond on this one.
b'shalom
bananabrain

Hi
Never mind what they say about us, that we can face ourselves, you please don’t worry.
You did not mention, the purpose of your queries in your post I think, nevertheless I answered. Even if you are discussing this issue with the Shias or Sunnis or whatever denomination; you would be presenting verses from Quran or Hadith and for that you don't have to necessarily give quotations from Ahmadia website, you could give quotation from the Shia sources if you are discussing with a Shia, or from the Sunni sources if you are discussing with a Sunni. Our sources would provide you the useful references only from Quran and Hadith that would be valid for them from their own sources, as the basic sources are common. Then you would also get the arguments provided in that connection, which would provide you the link or logic behind, you need not unnecessarily quote that your view point is Ahmadia view point. You would see an amazing effect, you never would have thought of. Have a try at least.
One thing I must tell you, that Quran in Arabic is the same in all the Islamic denominations Shias, Sunnis, Ahle-Hadith sometimes called Wahabis. Hadith is not the same between Shias and Sunnis. If you present a Hadith from a Sunni source to a Shia, it would have no effect on him, your effort would be wasted and the vice versa. But in Ahmadia literature you would find both Shia Hadith and Sunni Hadith only you have to know if it has been quoted from the Shia Books or Sunni Books. It is safe if you train yourself in the Quran say 90% of you view point is based in Quran and only 10% is based in Hadith (5% from Shia and 5% from Sunni or a blend of it).I doubt if you would receive any useful reply from any Shia or Sunni these days due to obvious reasons.
I only suggested that you surf our website, you would get useful material from which you can collect references of verses of Quran and Hadith and then you could discuss with anybody in humility with confidence. You are my friend.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam, working for unity of all the religions with peaceful means.

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by inhumility

Hi
Never mind what they say about us, that we can face ourselves, you please don’t worry.
You did not mention, the purpose of your queries in your post I think, nevertheless I answered. Even if you are discussing this issue with the Shias or Sunnis or whatever denomination; you would be presenting verses from Quran or Hadith and for that you don't have to necessarily give quotations from Ahmadia website, you could give quotation from the Shia sources if you are discussing with a Shia, or from the Sunni sources if you are discussing with a Sunni. Our sources would provide you the useful references only from Quran and Hadith that would be valid for them from their own sources, as the basic sources are common. Then you would also get the arguments provided in that connection, which would provide you the link or logic behind, you need not unnecessarily quote that your view point is Ahmadia view point. You would see an amazing effect, you never would have thought of. Have a try at least.
One thing I must tell you, that Quran in Arabic is the same in all the Islamic denominations Shias, Sunnis, Ahle-Hadith sometimes called Wahabis. Hadith is not the same between Shias and Sunnis. If you present a Hadith from a Sunni source to a Shia, it would have no effect on him, your effort would be wasted and the vice versa. But in Ahmadia literature you would find both Shia Hadith and Sunni Hadith only you have to know if it has been quoted from the Shia Books or Sunni Books. It is safe if you train yourself in the Quran say 90% of you view point is based in Quran and only 10% is based in Hadith (5% from Shia and 5% from Sunni or a blend of it).I doubt if you would receive any useful reply from any Shia or Sunni these days due to obvious reasons.
I only suggested that you surf our website, you would get useful material from which you can collect references of verses of Quran and Hadith and then you could discuss with anybody in humility with confidence. You are my friend.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam, working for unity of all the religions with peaceful means.

This is a nasty divisive post.

Most Sunnis and Shias get along fine, this Eid I prayed in a Shia Mosque and there were plenty of other Sunnis there.

I am afraid whilst preaching 'peaceful Islam', Ahmadis seem to spend most of their time trying to 'big up ' the divide between Sunnis and Shias.

I have Shia friends and they have a range of different views as do we Sunnis, sometime I find myself in agreement with a Shia friend as oposed to a Sunni friend.

I suggest that you start to practice your 'peaceful Islam' rather than attempt to exasperate divides or potential divides.

You disgust me.

[chakraman]

Originally Posted by Abubakar

This is a nasty divisive post,
I suggest that you start to practice your 'peaceful Islam' rather than attempt to exasperate divides or potential divides.
You disgust me.

i know nothing of the specifics of this argument/debate, but i can grasp tones. from where i'm sat inhumility has tried to engage in conversation and is being spat at with various empty justifications for this. you say he is divisive yet you push him away instead of trying to unite with him which is what he's trying to do with you. of course i'm not a muslim and this isn't my show but i am a human and i can speak out if i feel someones being demeaned unnecessarily. respectfully jase
so much for non violence/hate.

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by chakraman

i know nothing of the specifics of this argument/debate, but i can grasp tones. from where i'm sat inhumility has tried to engage in conversation and is being spat at with various empty justifications for this. you say he is divisive yet you push him away instead of trying to unite with him which is what he's trying to do with you. of course i'm not a muslim and this isn't my show but i am a human and i can speak out if i feel someones being demeaned unnecessarily. respectfully jase

Originally Posted by chakraman

so much for non violence/hate.

Thank you my friend and brother in humanity. Anybody who is peaceful, some people start animosity against them. It is a very simple thing to understand that somebody who does not consider others humans, how could he understand truthful religion or message from GodAllahYHWH, which is and would remain always peaceful.
Thanks again
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam, working for unity of all the Revealed Religions with peaceful means.