islamic tradition of non-violence?

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste BB.
I clicked twice and stumbled on this from his link....there are a number of quotes included..

Hi
Thanks for clicking on to website alislam.org, actually by visiting once or twice to a website doen not make one familiar of the facilities availabe there, For doing a research work as BB intends to do, he has to be familiar with that site. Since 99% of our programmes are not done by professionals but by volunteers that make it more appropriate for more visits. If one opens the home page of alislam.org, one sees:
Digital Media Library
Search Engine

Searchable Library of Arabic & English programs, Liqa Maal Arabmore...
by clicking on the word more.... above one opens up the digital meida library:

(e.g. Islam, Jesus, Jihad)

Keyword List
• Arabic • English • Urdu • Bangla • French • All
Bangla Mulaqat Dars-ul-Quran English Mulaqat French Mulaqat Friday Sermon Liqamaal Arab Majlis-e-Irfan English Majlis-e-Irfan Urdu Tarjamat-ul-Quran Urdu Class Urdu Mulaqat

The Al Islam Digital Media Library is an ambitious project that aims to catalog and make accessible all of the premium audio and video content of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. Currently, the Digital Media Library contains content from the popular Arab/English, Bangla/English, and French/English Question-Answer programs.
Now using the search engine, one could get answers to any type of religious questions and resources, mostly answered by our late caliph, Mirza Tahir Ahmad, whose photograph appears above, and who died some years ago. One could read or listen to the answers.
The website is purely non-commercial and religious only for the guidance of humanity the world over. It is free, and no donations are asked for. Personally I neither run the show there,nor anybody knows me there.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam,working for unity of all the revealed religions.

[Seeker_of_truth]

Originally Posted by inhumility

Thank you my friend and brother in humanity. Anybody who is peaceful, some people start animosity against them. It is a very simple thing to understand that somebody who does not consider others humans, how could he understand truthful religion or message from GodAllahYHWH, which is and would remain always peaceful.
Thanks again
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam, working for unity of all the Revealed Religions with peaceful means.

If i may humbly ask, does that include the Baha'i Faith?

[zaim187]

Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them.] (An-Nisaa' 4:90)


If even a little sparrow has been killed unjustly, it will appear before the Lord of the worlds crying for justice!"(An-Nasa'i, Ad-Darami, and Ahmad) Books of hadith



Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am 6: 151)

any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.) (Al-Ma’idah 5:32)

Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition." (An-Nahl: 90)


Just a few quotes from the Quran and Hadith
you may also find this helpful
Non-Violence and Islam
Salaam

[zaim187]

AbdulGhaffar Khan
A muslim student of Ghandis non violent philosophy
Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by chakraman

i know nothing of the specifics of this argument/debate, but i can grasp tones. from where i'm sat inhumility has tried to engage in conversation and is being spat at with various empty justifications for this. you say he is divisive yet you push him away instead of trying to unite with him which is what he's trying to do with you. of course i'm not a muslim and this isn't my show but i am a human and i can speak out if i feel someones being demeaned unnecessarily. respectfully jase
so much for non violence/hate.

Sallaam Jase,

I quite understand your post and your sentiments but I am afraid it may be because you are not a Muslim or just a thoroughly decent person that you have failed to pick up on inhumility's meaning behind the gloss.

He is not seeking to unite with me but to subdue my beliefs beneath his own, I am a Muslim (as it happens a Sunni Muslim, but that is not important). Inhumility attempts to reinforce the false perceptions that Muslims who come from different threads (specifically Sunni and Shia Muslims) are divided along Religious lines, constantly at each other throats and in fact enemies. This is false. Not true.

Yes there are areas of conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims, much publicised in the Middle East (namely Iraq), but even there most Muslims of different hues get along fine , including plenty of inter-marriage and mixed families. I am not denying there is a problem there but how much is religious and how much tribal or political is open to question.

I can understand that you may not have a good knowledge of these matters and have been mislead into believing the type of guff that inhumility is dishing out (along with western journalists who are spoonfed 'information' inside the green zone) but inhumility KNOWS that he is not telling the truth, He is lying and however sugar coated the pill is it is nasty and unIslamic behavour from him.

If you are unclear about anything that I have written please feel free to ask, however blunt the question, I may be off the board for a week or so (holiday in Gambia !) but will reply when I get back.

Peace

[Promethium]

There is more than enough room for Muslims to be non-violent. At certain times total pacifists would be totally destroyed, if there were noone to defend them, I think that might have been the reason for the rules on self defense in Islam.
But at the heart of the Quran, is the idea that Allah is merciful. The laws of the Quran in a sense are expressing Allahs mercy. Muslims acknowledge that verses should be taken in there context. And perhaps historical context is valid also. After all the stories of the past prophets show that spiritual law is expressed in different forms in relation to time. There also is the story where Muhammad suggested that the heads of each clan raise the Black Stone on a cloth, so that all had the honor of lifting it. A perfect expression of resolving a situation non-violently with all participants satisfied. So with this example in mind, along with the knowledge that Allah is merciful, andawareness of the growing necessity for peace during our times, Islam has a solid foundation for being representatives and workers for peace as well as defenders of those suffering injustice.

[wil]

Does anyone remember folks converting to Islam in the 60's and 70's and avoiding the Vietnam War due to the non-violent non-compbatant Muslim ways, and dictates of the Koran which proved it?

Seem Cassius Clay and Lou Alcinder both attempted that...

[bananabrain]

can we stop turning this into a discussion about ahmadis, please - let's get back to the proper subject. and, incidentally, if you think that everything is generally rosy between sunni and shi'a, you probably haven't read this thread:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...shia-5375.html - it gets very nasty. it is pretty obvious, even if you ignore iraq, lebanon etc, it is still far from happy families.

karim abdul ghaffar khan has already been brought to my attention, thank you.

Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, G!D does not allow you to harm them.] (An-Nisaa' 4:90)

this isn't non-violence, as it relies upon "them" offering you peace.

at Eteraz.org || this discussion has resulted in a particularly interesting insight:

Ultimately, Islamic Tradition has focused not on "non-violence" but on "who gets to have the power of violence." That power it has always limited with the state. There has never been any state in the history of mankind which has been pacifist or non-violent.

i've also been pointed at the following:

[quote]"He who overthrows people is not strong and has no power. The strong among us is he who controls himself when he is angry."

in both Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, 42:40-43

The Prophet said: "Moses asked G!D:"Oh my Lord!, Who in thy sight is the most honoured of thy servants?"

"G!D Answered: "He who forgives when he is able to avenge".'

i am told that (and i quote) 'Both [of these] are reported by Abu Huraira, the second appears in the collection "Baihaqi". I'm no expert in the subject but both are qawl, i.e. the Prophet said.'

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

can we stop turning this into a discussion about ahmadis, please - let's get back to the proper subject. and, incidentally, if you think that everything is generally rosy between sunni and shi'a, you probably haven't read this thread:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...shia-5375.html - it gets very nasty. it is pretty obvious, even if you ignore iraq, lebanon etc, it is still far from happy families.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Sallamaleykum

I think we really need a little more than one thread on a message board.

At the moment the Sunni v Shia stuff is big news due to Iraq, BUT as I have pointed out previously this is as much a result of poor reporting and sloppy journalism than of any reality.

How many of the 30 plus armed groups in Iraq actually define themselves as Shia or Sunni? How many of those are in fact tribal groups hiding behind Religion? I think a proper examination of the facts would help and a little disbelief of disinformation that clearly serves the invading powers agenda and a little study of the situation would help.

There are millions and millions of Shia and Sunni who have no problem with each other.

[chakraman]

hello abubakar,
thanks for your courteous reply, i feel you are right to some degree that my opinion is not really based on an understanding at whats at stake here, but i don't want to side. if inhumility is "lost" as you point out, then he needs your grace as opposed to to your vehemence, though i accept possibbly the sensibilties that led to it. hope you have a great holiday - africa...nice, regards jase

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by chakraman

hello abubakar,
thanks for your courteous reply, i feel you are right to some degree that my opinion is not really based on an understanding at whats at stake here, but i don't want to side. if inhumility is "lost" as you point out, then he needs your grace as opposed to to your vehemence, though i accept possibbly the sensibilties that led to it. hope you have a great holiday - africa...nice, regards jase

Sallaam Jase

I agree that you shouldn't take sides, as for you it must be pretty much ones persons word against anothers.

I am afraid that Ahmadis are a little like Jehovahs Witnesses, they are well trained to prothletize so it becomes difficult to have an honest conversation with many of them. Tackling them and opening them up for debate is quite difficult, you tend to get formula replys and links to one of their websites.

I am not saying they are bad people, just a little disengenuous.

I do not hold any ill-will towards Inhumility. Sometimes it is neccessary to be a little strong towards someone in order that they and those 'watching' understand exactly how offensive and hurtful they are being.

Peace

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by zaim187

Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them.] (An-Nisaa' 4:90)


If even a little sparrow has been killed unjustly, it will appear before the Lord of the worlds crying for justice!"(An-Nasa'i, Ad-Darami, and Ahmad) Books of hadith



Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am 6: 151)

any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.) (Al-Ma’idah 5:32)

Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition." (An-Nahl: 90)


Just a few quotes from the Quran and Hadith
you may also find this helpful
Non-Violence and Islam
Salaam

Very good post and quotations from Quran and Hadith ( the Hadith books quoted are from Sunni sources, to the best of my knowledge). May GodAllahYHWH bless you.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam, working for unity of all religions by peaceful means, reason, rationality, discussion, dialogue and Revelation.

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by Promethium

There is more than enough room for Muslims to be non-violent. At certain times total pacifists would be totally destroyed, if there were noone to defend them, I think that might have been the reason for the rules on self defense in Islam.
But at the heart of the Quran, is the idea that Allah is merciful. The laws of the Quran in a sense are expressing Allahs mercy. Muslims acknowledge that verses should be taken in there context. And perhaps historical context is valid also. After all the stories of the past prophets show that spiritual law is expressed in different forms in relation to time. There also is the story where Muhammad suggested that the heads of each clan raise the Black Stone on a cloth, so that all had the honor of lifting it. A perfect expression of resolving a situation non-violently with all participants satisfied. So with this example in mind, along with the knowledge that Allah is merciful, andawareness of the growing necessity for peace during our times, Islam has a solid foundation for being representatives and workers for peace as well as defenders of those suffering injustice.

Hi
It is a useful post indeed. But BB wants quotations and references from Quran and Hadith ( for Hadith kindly mention if it is from a Shia book or a Sunni book so that he is not confused) which please provide to him, he needs urgently.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peacefulf faith in Islam working for unity of all revealed religions the world over.

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by Seeker_of_truth

If i may humbly ask, does that include the Baha'i Faith?

Hi
I admire many things of the Baha'i Faith and their organisations. The peace projects are for everybody to work, hand in hand like friends, brothers and sisters. My priorities are first to unite Abrahamic faiths, then the revealed religions, then others. You could work for that and I know socially instituitionally the Baha'is are already at work towards that end.
Thanks for showing good intentions.
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by wil

Does anyone remember folks converting to Islam in the 60's and 70's and avoiding the Vietnam War due to the non-violent non-compbatant Muslim ways, and dictates of the Koran which proved it?

Originally Posted by wil

Seem Cassius Clay and Lou Alcinder both attempted that...

Hi
My friend/brother; how correct you are?
Salam from me.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam