Islam on a collision course

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

tao,

are you married? i ask not to get personal information, but to illustrate this point. have you ever seen, touched, heard or smelled love? if you are married, did you always expect to get married? did you know your partner existed before you met him or her? did you think marriage was a good idea before you tried it?

besides, i know a great deal about G!D because i have a document which, as far as i am concerned, was written by G!D.



b'shalom

bananabrain

Yes I have been. Both married and in love. But I knew the bride was a real person. And I know my sense of 'love' to be a product of how my species evolved as a social animal.
As far as you are concerned, as you say, but is my opinion of it not equally valid and a lot more rational?

tao

[dailogue is the best]

salam everybody,

Does God really exist?

since the creation of the earth, people has always felt the presence of a supernatural power...they worshiped the sun, fire, wizzards....the question is why? why those people were looking for a supernatural power.????

the answer is very simple....we have within ourselves a spirit of that supernatural power....and that spirit longs for its owner.....Anyone who claims that happiness can be obtained only through materialistic things, he/she is in fact in illusion....happiness is far greater than responding to materialistic desires....happiness has to do with that piece of supernatural within us....

If I give you a book with 3 chapters, talking about an intersting issue...the book is written with very good language, and is presented in a amazing order, then would u believe me when i ll tell u that this book has no writer...it is found like that...? would you believe me? rationally, you won't....the same thing about this amazing, fabulous and fascinating world..there is a creator of that world.. and there is a reason behind creating it....

the question about God's existence reminds me of an old story..i hope you will enjoy it.....

the story says that one day, a man goes to cut his hair...the hairdresser, doing his job, was listening to the man who was unceasingly saying that there is no God, and that all this is a superstitution....the hairdresser was a wise man...he replied by questioning the man: do you think that hairdressers exist?? the man replied laughingly: of course, man... the hairdresser then asked the man to look through the window at that man with long, untidy hair ...then the hairdresser asked: why is that man having such terrible hair?.....the man answered: because he didnt go to the hairdresser...

Anyone who doubts God's existence should try the following: go to God, seek refuge in Him, talk to Him in humility, be with Him in modesty,ask HIM with tears in eyes and others in heart.....you ll see amazing things... you wont feel Him only, but you will revive Him within you...

Believe me my brethren, to know God is the most important value one should strive for...

Be with God, and you will see Him with you...

my best wishes to all

[Dawud]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

have you ever seen, touched, heard or smelled love? if you are married, did you always expect to get married? did you know your partner existed before you met him or her? did you think marriage was a good idea before you tried it?

besides, i know a great deal about G!D because i have a document which, as far as i am concerned, was written by G!D.

I agree, love is real, and we can't see it, hear it, touch it, smell it, or taste it. In dreams we see without our physical eyes, we hear without our physical ears. In dreams we can taste, touch, and smell, I know I have. Well, I don't specifically remember smelling anything in dreams, but I have tasted and touched. I believe dreams are evidence of the soul, as there are many dreams I've had and that others have had that end up happening years later. I saw 9/11 many years before it happened. I saw Columbine before it happened. I've seen many more things from my own life before they happened. I believe that is evidence of the soul, and the soul is evidence of God, as are the Holy Writings of the great world religions.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by dialogue is the best

the answer is very simple....we have within ourselves a spirit of that supernatural power....and that spirit longs for its owner.....Anyone who claims that happiness can be obtained only through materialistic things, he/she is in fact in illusion....happiness is far greater than responding to materialistic desires....happiness has to do with that piece of supernatural within us....

Interesting. Is this anything to like having the indwelt Holy Spirit of God in the life of a Christian believer? I know that the Qu'ran speaks to something like Allah is closer than your jugular, is this what you mean by it?

[dailogue is the best]

salam Dondi,

The verse which you meant says: " It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein" (50:16)

This verse isnt talking about the composition of man. It is rather talking about how God knows more truly the innermost state of our feeling and consciousness than does our own ego.

What I really meant by that " within ourselves, there is a spirit of that supernatural power" is the Spirit of God.. God says about the creation of man: " Behold! thy Lord said to the angels:" I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape, 29 " When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him" (15:28-29)

All over the world, in all people, there is God' s Spirit.....this faculty of God-like knowledge and will ,which, if rightly used, would give man superiority over other creatures...

My salutations

[heavensblade23]

Originally Posted by Mohsin

It is accepted by Muslims and a large part of non-Muslims that Qur'an is a word of Allah(The Almighty God) and is free from corruption.

Those are Muslim statements of faith. People who are not muslims certainly aren't going to concede that the Quran is the word of God, much less that it's entirely free of corruption. I am not a muslim and concede neither point, nor have I met a non-muslim that believes those things. What you said it simply false.

[heavensblade23]

Originally Posted by Mohsin

Suadi government is following this and you can see that the rate of rape there is the lowest in the world. Yes they too are deviating a little bit, but still, the law is there. Now concider America. According to a report by the FBI in 1990, in the year 1990… ‘One hundred and two thousand, five hundred & fifty five women were raped’.

There are a number of problems with these statements. What are Saudi reporting methods? How many rapes go unreported? Many rapes are not reported in the US because the woman is worried about her morals and sex life being impugned in the court system? Honor and family honor are a much bigger deal in Saudi Arabia as I understand it, and women have a lower status, so the problem of the crime being unreported is compounded by a thousand. I remember reading a story about a European boy who was gang-raped by four men in Saudi Arabia and everyone, from the doctor who examined his wounds to the police that took the report, accused him of being gay and lying about it being non-consensual. No charges were ever brough against the men. You can also throw in the harsh penalties for adultery or bearing false witness if the court decides it was consensual. It is any wonder it's so rarely reported? You can either keep your mouth shut, or take it to court and risk getting lashes and/or disgracing the family name if things don't go well.

Suppose your sister is raped, and if you are made the judge - leave aside what Islam tells you, leave aside what Indian law tells you, leave aside what American law tells you - If you are made the judge, what punishment will you give to the rapist of your sister? And all said… ‘Death sentence’

No, all did not say that. Maybe some people in Muslim countries feel that way, but I assure you it's not the case here. People's wives, daughters, and sisters are raped all the time here, but revenge killings are rare even when the rapist is acquitted or it isn't taken to court.

No one will commit this crime because of the fear of death.

We have the death penalty in many states for the crime of murder but I assure you there are still a very high number of murders.

[heavensblade23]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

yeh, even the millions with all their nerve endings cut out with a kitchen knife?

That isn't, at its heart, an islamic practice. It's not practiced by all muslims by any means, and not all societies that practice it are muslims.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Dawud

I'm pretty sure Muslim is another form of the word Islam... so it would mean one who is in submission to the will of God.

That is quite an intersting subject because it very much matters what the speaker intends to portray.

The Quran actually differentiates between islam, iman and ihsan and states you can have one without the others.

The wandering Arabs say: We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(49:14)

Iman is faith, this is not knowedge of the Quran or declarations or how you are seen to outwardly live, iman is the faith you have in your heart and only Allah (swt) can judge this.

Ihsan literally means excellence and refers to your deeds and actions, it is all very well professing to be a Muslim but it is your actions that show your true faith.

If you go back to the early Islamic scholars writings they use different terms for muslims and mu'min, the former being one who has spoken the Shahada but does not yet have iman and the later being a person of true faith. It would originally have been a little insulting to be called a muslim, as this indicated a lack of faith.

Unfortunately these days classical Arabic is spoken by so few that these terms have largely been left behind and Islam is used to refer to an organised religion and Muslim is used to refer to a follower, of any degree, of that religion. What the classical Arabic words translate to and how they are used today are often two very different things.

[islamis4u]

Almost agreed with Mohsin's Post.


[quote=heavensblade23;153869]

There are a number of problems with these statements. What are Saudi reporting methods? How many rapes go unreported? Many rapes are not reported in the US because the woman is worried about her morals and sex life being impugned in the court system? Honor and family honor are a much bigger deal in Saudi Arabia as I understand it, and women have a lower status, so the problem of the crime being unreported is compounded by a thousand. I remember reading a story about a European boy who was gang-raped by four men in Saudi Arabia and everyone, from the doctor who examined his wounds to the police that took the report, accused him of being gay and lying about it being non-consensual. No charges were ever brough against the men. You can also throw in the harsh penalties for adultery or bearing false witness if the court decides it was consensual. It is any wonder it's so rarely reported? You can either keep your mouth shut, or take it to court and risk getting lashes and/or disgracing the family name if things don't go well.

First we never say that all muslims are perfect no sir, we never okay, their are always a black sheep in a society, may be he was stating % not number i would percentage of a society is a big thing to look at and who says islam have lower or saudi's have lower status for a muslim woman, no sir it is to raise it, not lowering it.

No, all did not say that. Maybe some people in Muslim countries feel that way, but I assure you it's not the case here. People's wives, daughters, and sisters are raped all the time here, but revenge killings are rare even when the rapist is acquitted or it isn't taken to court.

May be they have become accustomed to may be its regular routine you know may be the brother he himself have done this so.

We have the death penalty in many states for the crime of murder but I assure you there are still a very high number of murders.

this is problem with your law sir, why do you want to go behind and american army tries to kill what you call terrorist, why do you leave them whom i say so-called terrorist because their are many so-called terrorists.

[heavensblade23]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

and who says islam have lower or saudi's have lower status for a muslim woman, no sir it is to raise it, not lowering it.

That depends on how you look at it and what you value. If you view chastity and modesty as the ultimate goal, then certainly there's a lot more of that enforced in Islamic societies. If you transported your average western woman to Saudi Arabia she'd feel like a slave because half of the freedoms she takes for granted in the west are absent there. She wouldn't be thankful to you for making her wear a hijab or not letting her drive a car by herself. No one tells our women what to wear, they make their own decisions. If you want to wear a hijab and a full-length garment, that's fine with us. If you want to wear a revealing outfit, that's also fine with us.

this is problem with your law sir, why do you want to go behind and american army tries to kill what you call terrorist, why do you leave them whom i say so-called terrorist because their are many so-called terrorists.

Why are they 'so-called' terrorists? I'd say anyone that intentionally targets civilians in asymmetric warfare is a terrorist rightly-called. Otherwise I agree with you, traditional warfare is not a good way to fight terrorism.

Terrorism accomplishes nothing in the end. It just makes life harder on everyone. How much closer to having their own state are the Palestinians after the intifadas? It's a like a bee sting, the sting hurts, but the bee gets swatted afterwards. Who won in the end? It certainly wasn't the bee. Violence just leads to more violence in the end.

[dailogue is the best]

what is Islam but submission to God....and what is submission to God but creating a relation of lasting love with Him through following His teaching....

read the Quran to understand Islam, and dont read Muslims to understand it....

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

read the Quran to understand Islam, and dont read Muslims to understand it....

Here, here, I agree completely but it is sad and rather embarrassing that that is the case.

[bob x]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

read the Quran to understand Islam, and dont read Muslims to understand it....

I'm not interested in reading the Qur'an. It's an old book in an alien tongue that I find tedious and uninspiring. If you want to read the Qur'an, and if you find it inspiring, that is not my concern.
What IS my concern is what the Muslims do, because there are a lot of them.

[Muslimwoman]

There are a lot of Americans too Bob, do you want to be held responsible for what some Americans choose to do in the name of G-d, national pride, white supremacy, etc?