Islam in the time of the advent of the Mahdi - Page 2

Postmaster · 02-20-2007, 12:30 PM

400 years into Christianity after the split from Judaism we refused to be circumcised and changed our holy day from Saturday to Sunday. And Muslims from Sunday to Friday. These are examples of religion changing to suit the people. There is a Christian tradition of a saint that would hear heavenly music as she prayed, she was a kings daughter of a Pagan and her father sent 100 theologians to convert her back, the storys goes that she ironcially convinced all the theologians to convert Christianity.

BruceDLimber · 02-20-2007, 02:16 PM

[quote=Postmaster;92243]Baha’ism came out of the heart of Islam and . . .[/quote]

Postmaster, hi!

The correct term is the Baha'i Faith.

There is no such thing as Baha'ism.

Peace,

Bruce

BruceDLimber · 02-20-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imranshaykh

The Prophet told us that that music and wine were innovations by the people.

You're quibbling.

Music is eminently acceptable before God, as the Baha'i scriptures strongly affirm!

And when I asked you where in the Qur'an it said Muhammad had opposed music, you were unable to produce a citation. So the condemnation of music is clearly a mere human addition to Islam and thus invalid.

Q. E. D..

Peace,

Bruce

Popeyesays · 02-20-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

400 years into Christianity after the split from Judaism we refused to be circumcised and changed our holy day from Saturday to Sunday. And Muslims from Sunday to Friday. These are examples of religion changing to suit the people. There is a Christian tradition of a saint that would hear heavenly music as she prayed, she was a kings daughter of a Pagan and her father sent 100 theologians to convert her back, the storys goes that she ironcially convinced all the theologians to convert Christianity.

The word 'Bahaism' is much like calling Christianity "Christianologyism".

Regards,
Scott

arthra · 02-20-2007, 05:04 PM

"Bahaism" was a name given the Baha'i Faith by Western scholars about a hundred years ago.. You still sometimes see it in classifications of texts.

Today most refer to it as "Baha'i Faith".

Recall that many referred to Islam as Mohammadanism until not so long ago.

- Art

Postmaster · 02-20-2007, 05:10 PM

I see. But as a non Baha'i I feel comfortable calling it Bahaism, but will not if you feel like that.

Baha'i faith is a complimentary religion to me, I can't adopt Eastern rituals such as pointing towards the east to pray and other stuff which is Alien to me, I was raised by an intellectual Greek family proud of our European heretiage. But I do feel the theology in the Baha'i faith is important and worthy of me sharing to people.

Seeker_of_truth · 02-20-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

I see. But as a non Baha'i I feel comfortable calling it Bahaism, but will not if you feel like that.

Baha'i faith is a complimentary religion to me, I can't adopt Eastern rituals such as pointing towards the east to pray and other stuff which is Alien to me, I was raised by an intellectual Greek family proud of our European heretiage. But I do feel the theology in the Baha'i faith is important and worthy of me sharing to people.

If i may point out, every great religion of the world has originated from the east, as well as it's rituals.

arthra · 02-20-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

I see. But as a non Baha'i I feel comfortable calling it Bahaism, but will not if you feel like that.

Baha'i faith is a complimentary religion to me, I can't adopt Eastern rituals such as pointing towards the east to pray and other stuff which is Alien to me, I was raised by an intellectual Greek family proud of our European heretiage. But I do feel the theology in the Baha'i faith is important and worthy of me sharing to people.

I think over the past year or so Postmaster I've seen your interest in Baha'i Faith and applaud it. Sometimes you'll understand that people dislike labels other's attach to their faith. Shoghi Effendi advised that the proper name of our faith was Baha'i Faith not Bahaism or Babism or even Baha'i World Faith..simply Baha'i Faith.

Many churches are built "oriented" toward the east as sunrise...so one could probably make a case that Christians pray in an easterly direction I suppose..

Baha'i Houses of Worship are actually not oriented to any particular direction as there are nine sides and they are more circular facing various points of teh compass. Also unlike Mosques we do not have a place in our Houses of Worship that designate a Qiblah as each in their own privacy daily face the Qiblah for us which is Bahji in the Holy Land. So if you consider that most Baha'is live say in India they would be facing westerly.

I glad that you are proud of your intellectual history and proud of your Greek heritage... there is also much from Platonism that is a support to Christianity, Islam and Baha'u'llah refers to this in His Lawh-i-Hikmat.

Have a great day!

- Art

Popeyesays · 02-20-2007, 07:52 PM

If you feel better, go ahead. It's just that many who insist on calling the religion 'Bahaism' are antagonistic or demeaning by using a term they know is antiquated. On an AOL chatroom about the faith one detractor would not spell Bahai or Baha`u'llah correctly because he misspelled the words to demean the faith.

I do NOT think you do that, but it's an unpleasant reminder of those that do.

Regards,
Scott

Postmaster · 02-20-2007, 09:22 PM

Something off topic, but since were talking about Plato, did you know that an Iranian is looking for the lost island of Atlantis off the shores of Cyprus. He thinks he’s on to discovering the greatest missing piece in human history. The theory has it that Cyprus is all that’s left of Ancient Atlantis. If true I guess I can claim Atlantean ancestry haha.

The birth place of religion.

Mick · 02-20-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Something off topic, but since were talking about Plato, did you know that an Iranian is looking for the lost island of Atlantis off the shores of Cyprus. He thinks he’s on to discovering the greatest missing piece in human history. The theory has it that Cyprus is all that’s left of Ancient Atlantis. If true I guess I can claim Atlantean ancestry haha.

The birth place of religion.

Postmaster,

I'm happy for you.

Mick

BruceDLimber · 02-20-2007, 11:38 PM

And Scott, another unpleasant example of the same thing is someone I knew who insisted on saying "BA-high" instead of "ba-HIGH," presumably also as a put-down.

Fortunately, most folks don't stoop to that sort of thing.

Regards,

Bruce

Postmaster · 02-21-2007, 01:45 AM

Thank you Mick, thats what I want.

Postmaster · 02-21-2007, 02:49 AM

I suppose it is form of prejudice towards the Baha'i faith when someone miss-pronounces or refers to the faith other then the names chosen, when done with intent. Who cares though, leave them to it. Know point doing anything if it falls on def ears.

imranshaykh · 02-21-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

You're quibbling.

Music is eminently acceptable before God, as the Baha'i scriptures strongly affirm!

And when I asked you where in the Qur'an it said Muhammad had opposed music, you were unable to produce a citation. So the condemnation of music is clearly a mere human addition to Islam and thus invalid.
Q. E. D..
Peace,
Bruce

You are obviously not reading my posts. I gave the verses and the traditions about music and it being forbidden as per the Holy Prophet of Islam and the Holy Imams.

If you want to find the exact word - music in Quran, it may not be available. But the traditions (in the same post) explain which words in the Quran are referring to music - by name.

Muslims pray namaz 5 times a day in a particular fashion and have been doing so for 1,400 years. Do you deny the concept of namaz and its form in Islam? I should think not. Now go back and tell me if you can find where it is written in Quran to recite 2 units in the morning, 4 for the noon, 4 for the afternoon, 3 units for dusk and 4 units for night prayers.

Bahais believe in Imam Ali being the rightful successor of the Prophet - Go and tell me where you can find the name of Imam Ali in the Quran.

Does it mean the Quran is silent about these issues? No. Quran claims that all knowledges are encompassed in it. Then where are the verses for the above? For these, one must refer to the "authorised" interpretators of the verses - the Holy Prophet and the Imams.

Hope I am clear.
Regards,