Is Truth Relative...

[Conscience]

Or, is Truth Absolute? If a person's truth conflicts and contradicts with another person's truth, how can both be truth?

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Or, is Truth Absolute? If a person's truth conflicts and contradicts with another person's truth, how can both be truth?

Because they aren't listening to one another.

[Conscience]

So is truth relative or absolute?

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

Because they aren't listening to one another.

I second that.

The play on words is tremendous.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Or, is Truth Absolute? If a person's truth conflicts and contradicts with another person's truth, how can both be truth?

I "third" AdD and add...

because both people are limited.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Conscience

So is truth relative or absolute?

Without trying to sound facetious, I believe the answer to be a resounding yes. Perhaps we could open a thread on "level confusion" What an individual's state of conciousness is would determine what "Truth" was being spoken about. Jesus often confounded listeners who could not fathom his sayings because they were stuck in their level of understanding and could not come up a little higher to hear the beautiful and profound meaning in his words.

[Conscience]

Let me offer ya'll some advice. Dont think too hard, the answer to this question is quite obvious. There is no need to philosophise. There's a great scripture that says:

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

How can truth be anything other than what it claims to be - absolute? Here's an example of what I mean:

Person A say: I am the lamb of God that is dying for your sins. You can only get to God through me.

Person B say: Person A did not die on a cross, but was taken up to God. You can get to God through the good you do for God.

How can both be true?

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Let me offer ya'll some advice. Dont think too hard, the answer to this question is quite obvious. There is no need to philosophise. There's a great scripture that says:

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

How can truth be anything other than what it claims to be - absolute? Here's an example of what I mean:

Person A say: I am the lamb of God that is dying for your sins. You can only get to God through me.

Person B say: Person A did not die on a cross, but was taken up to God. You can get to God through the good you do for God.

How can both be true?

Person A is using a metaphor, perhaps?

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Let me offer ya'll some advice. Dont think too hard, the answer to this question is quite obvious. There is no need to philosophise. There's a great scripture that says:

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

How can truth be anything other than what it claims to be - absolute? Here's an example of what I mean:

Person A say: I am the lamb of God that is dying for your sins. You can only get to God through me.

Person B say: Person A did not die on a cross, but was taken up to God. You can get to God through the good you do for God.

How can both be true?

The thing is, Conscience, you aren't thinking hard enough. You want to beat people over the head with your surface level of consciousness and think nobody is getting it because of your own hard headedness.

They are both true - if you're deep enough to understand it. But somehow, I don't think you're open to the conversation, you just want somebody some attention. There. So I've entertained you.

[Paladin]

Thinking really isn't that hard, almost effortless actually. Jesus said "Come let us reason together" I see definite truths in both statements, though certainly one may be a trancendnt truth while one is in fact relative. "No one comes unto the father except by me" Means something quite different to me than its literal interpretation. And if a person devotes themselves to good works, I have no doubt that eventually they will be led to a deeper understanding of God. Who are we to be so arrogant as to assume complete knowledge of the ways and means of the Holy Spirit? As to reason, logic, and Philosophy in general, they are part and parcel of our human experience, and albeit only tools in our toolbox so to speak, it would be imprudent to deny their usefullness.

If the intent is to narrow the field of argument so that a point can be made it would seem more like setting a trap than engaging in philosophical discussion to reach a higher truth and understanding. This is the complaint I hold against literalism rather than mysticism in Christian thought. If person A just wants to be "right" and person B is seeking a deeper understanding of God, then then dialogue becomes impossible and pointless.

In addition, and ad hominem approach to discussion doesn't work either, people have the right to think, reason and philosophize as part of their Christian walk.

[Conscience]

LOL.. You guys are funny! Seriously though, here's a story that may help:

I once talked to a guy, and I asked him - "Yo, is truth relative, or absolute?" He said to me - "Truth is relative man. You're truth is not necessarily my truth, and vise verse."

I said - "You sure!?." He said - "Im absolutely positive." I then laughed, and showed him by his own statement that he proves my point. A few days later we could both laugh because he finally got it - his statement contradicted his theory, because he made an absolute statement.

That said, we all know that God isnt a God of confusion, and that he remains the same yesterday, today, and forever. We also know that God is truth. So, if truth is relative, there is no truth because it would constantly "evolve."

I'll do you guys a favor and leave you with some truth. 1+1=2, if you jump off the empire state building, whether you believe in gravity or not, you'll fall. Astronauts get into space because of "truth" not because of good intentioned.

Dot philosophize. Just think about it.

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Conscience

I'll do you guys a favor and leave you with some truth. 1+1=2

First, that's a tautology and not a "truth." Second, if this is so then how can 1+1+1=1?

[Abogado del Diablo]

Truth isn't relative. Our perception of Truth is relative. It has to be. Think about that for a bit, Conscience.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Conscience

That said, we all know that God isnt a God of confusion, and that he remains the same yesterday, today, and forever. We also know that God is truth. So, if truth is relative, there is no truth because it would constantly "evolve."

I don't feel confused about God. Nor do I think God changes. And I do believe that God is Truth.

None of those statements means that I think any human being can fully understand God or Truth. Hence, when two people disagree, they do so because they are (1) not listening to one another and (2) they are both limited and cannot comprehend the totality of God and Truth.

If you want to say you completely understand God and Truth, that's fine for you. But I fully recognize my humanity and capacity for error. I admit that fully comprehending God and the Absolute Truth is beyond humans' capabilities.

I'll do you guys a favor and leave you with some truth. 1+1=2, if you jump off the empire state building, whether you believe in gravity or not, you'll fall. Astronauts get into space because of "truth" not because of good intentioned.

Actually, 1+1 does not always equal 2. Especially in practical matters. Furthermore, there are mathematical proofs that are "impossible" in real life, such as 1=0. I leave you to research that on your own, if you like.

Also, there is the high probability that if I jumped off the empire state building that I would fall to the ground, but there is a slight chance I would not. Some scientists believe that a double of myself actually exists in some alternate reality where I could jump off the building and fly. Delve into string theory and marvel at the multiverse.

Finally, are you equating spiritual and scientific truth? No offense, but science and religion/philosophy are different ways of "proving" truth with different goals. Take it from someone who has studied both.

Dot philosophize. Just think about it.

I'm guessing you meant "don't" philosophize, just think about it. Am I the only one who finds that paradoxical statement extremely funny?

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

Truth isn't relative. Our perception of Truth is relative. It has to be. Think about that for a bit, Conscience.

Well said

And let me add, that asking a question designed to elicit a specific response is not only a fallacy, but it smacks of McCarthysim in its worst form. This type of "Begging the Question" is one of the lowest forms of discourse and really should be abandoned as both dysfunctional and childish in nature.