Is the Spirit of Judaism dead?

[Seeker_of_truth]

This question is not meant to offend anyone.
It seems to me that Judaism has become more of a tradition than an actualy religion. My Jewish friends are not religious or spiritual. They don't keep sabbath or Kosher (mp?). When you are born to a Jewish mother and father that automatically makes you a Jew which doesn't seem to me...correct in a spiritual sense. I asked my friend what he expected from the soon-to-come Messiah and he said he didn't know. I asked my other Jewish friend and he said he didn't even believe the Messiah was ever going to appear!

Where has the Spirit of Judaism gone?
Are there still devout Jews out there that take their spirituality as a Jew seriously?

[lunamoth]

Hello Seeker of Truth,

There most certainly are jews who take their religion and spirituality quite seriously, which I'm sure you could quickly learn from reading other threads in this very forum. As you seem to sense yourself, it's not exactly a polite thing to do to start a thread that suggests that a religion practiced by millions is somehow spiritually dead. A sample of two people you happen to know might not be a representative sampling of the Jewish population.

I have a feeling I know where you are going when you say: "When you are born to a Jewish mother and father that automatically makes you a Jew which doesn't seem to me...correct in a spiritual sense. " But, I'll let one of our Jewish members address this for you.

lunamoth

[Seeker_of_truth]

Again, not trying to bring anyone down I would just like to see what some opinions are on the matter.

[dauer]

Sot,

When you are born to a Jewish mother and father that automatically makes you a Jew which doesn't seem to me...correct in a spiritual sense.

Judaism's a tribal religion or, if you prefer it stated thusly, the religion of the Jewish people, much like the religion of the Cherokee in that respect. If you're born a Jew or born a Cherokee, that doesn't automatically make you a spiritual individual or a person in touch with your religion. It means you're a member of the nation, of the tribe. Spirituality isn't something that's inherited, but tribe is. Being born Jewish in mythical terms means being born into a covenantal relationship with God related to the mitzvot, the commandments.

My Jewish friends are not religious or spiritual.

There are a lot of Jews who've assimilated into the American culture so much that they've lost their roots. Cultural Jews. There used to be something called Classical Reform (that's the name now given to the older ideas of the Reform movement) which was really just about fitting in, being like everybody else. But the emerging trend is actually to embrace one's Jewishness, and more people want what the previous generation rejected. So more and more it's coming back. While Reform Judaism maintains its non-heirarchical religious position, Reform synagogues are looking more and more like Conservative ones.

I asked my friend what he expected from the soon-to-come Messiah and he said he didn't know. I asked my other Jewish friend and he said he didn't even believe the Messiah was ever going to appear!

Well, I agree with you that your friends don't sound particularly religious, but I think you're asking the wrong questions as well. There's a teaching in Judaism, from the Talmud, that if you're holding a sapling in your hands and someone tells you the messiah has come, first plant the sapling and then go greet the messiah.

Another thing is that Jewish beliefs on the messiah do vary a little, and some Jews who are religious and spiritual really don't believe in the messiah. Others believe instead in a messianic era.

Something that's also important to understand about Judaism, the focus is more on action than belief. Now this is going to be expressed differently for different people, but asking someone Jewish about whether or not they hold specific beliefs is a bit less relevant than asking how their Judaism manifests itself in their lives. It's a very this-worldly religion. Not that Jews don't believe anything, but the focus is more on doing, on action.

Are there still devout Jews out there that take their spirituality as a Jew seriously?

Yes, and in all flavors. Your friends just happen to be of the culturally affiliated variety.


Dauer

[Seeker_of_truth]

Originally Posted by dauer

Sot,



Judaism's a tribal religion or, if you prefer it stated thusly, the religion of the Jewish people, much like the religion of the Cherokee in that respect. If you're born a Jew or born a Cherokee, that doesn't automatically make you a spiritual individual or a person in touch with your religion. It means you're a member of the nation, of the tribe. Spirituality isn't something that's inherited, but tribe is. Being born Jewish in mythical terms means being born into a covenantal relationship with God related to the mitzvot, the commandments.



There are a lot of Jews who've assimilated into the American culture so much that they've lost their roots. Cultural Jews. There used to be something called Classical Reform (that's the name now given to the older ideas of the Reform movement) which was really just about fitting in, being like everybody else. But the emerging trend is actually to embrace one's Jewishness, and more people want what the previous generation rejected. So more and more it's coming back. While Reform Judaism maintains its non-heirarchical religious position, Reform synagogues are looking more and more like Conservative ones.



Well, I agree with you that your friends don't sound particularly religious, but I think you're asking the wrong questions as well. There's a teaching in Judaism, from the Talmud, that if you're holding a sapling in your hands and someone tells you the messiah has come, first plant the sapling and then go greet the messiah.

Another thing is that Jewish beliefs on the messiah do vary a little, and some Jews who are religious and spiritual really don't believe in the messiah. Others believe instead in a messianic era.

Something that's also important to understand about Judaism, the focus is more on action than belief. Now this is going to be expressed differently for different people, but asking someone Jewish about whether or not they hold specific beliefs is a bit less relevant than asking how their Judaism manifests itself in their lives. It's a very this-worldly religion. Not that Jews don't believe anything, but the focus is more on doing, on action.



Yes, and in all flavors. Your friends just happen to be of the culturally affiliated variety.


Dauer

Thank you very much for your illumination in this lowly thread

[bananabrain]

what dauer said; i am, like him, one of those people who takes it seriously.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[flowperson]

BB...you are truly one refreshing and honest dude.

shalom...flow....

[wil]

For me, studying and learning from Jews brings Spirit alive in an amazing way.

It is one thing watching a trapeze act, completely another having dinner with the Wallendas.

It is one thing seeing Believe it or Not on television, and another hanging out with side show freaks.

There are some Jews that are complacent in their religion, they are around for the social surrounding the holidays....this is not just typical for Jews.

There are others that live and breathe the scriptures, were raised with the enormity of it all, of being a Jew, and spending time with them is incredible!

Reading back over this I am not implying in any way that Judaism is a side show...Judaism is foundational to Abrahamic Spirituality...side shows are foundational to my offbeat thougts...