Is the cry "Anti-semetic" overused? - Page 9

bob x · 10-19-2007, 10:35 PM

Quote:

You wish to see the provision of factual information as bigoted that's your problem not mine.

No, that was not factual, just bigoted stereotyping.

Tao_Equus · 10-20-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob x

No, that was not factual, just bigoted stereotyping.

Wait and see

cyberpi · 10-20-2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

A Palestinian state is inevitable, though, as Sharon suddenly realised and u-turned on objections to it - that Palestinian birth rates outstripped Israeli ones, and therefore any future single state would end up having a Palestinian majority at the wheel of its democracy.

If it is democratic, who cares? Isn't it the racist or the ethnocentrist who insists that their race, religion, or ethnicity be the majority?

Kind of reminds me of civility... British civility that is. If it is American civility that doesn't count, right, because it is just not the same as British civility. Thank goodness then that I am occasionally considered uncivil.

bob x · 10-20-2007, 06:44 AM

Brits less popular after Europeans get to know them - Yahoo! News

madeinrussia89 · 10-20-2007, 08:19 AM

In my own thoughts, I'm so sick of hearing " anti-semite this, anti-semite that" especially in reference to the Holocaust. The Holocaust wasn't just a crime against Jews, people are somehow overlooking the fact that so many Soviets, so many Gypsies, so many non-Jews died in the Holocaust but they don't get any of the hype like Jews.

And the whole " German, European " anti-semetic figure is ridiculous as well. There were Arab Nazis, Croatian Nazis, Estonians Nazis, -insert random ethnicity here- Nazis, the Germans were definately not acting on their own.

The fact is that Israel has to SOMEHOW come up with actual reasons besides crying " remember the holocaust, you're a bunch of fascists! " everytime they don't get their way.

enlightenment · 10-20-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madeinrussia89

In my own thoughts, I'm so sick of hearing " anti-semite this, anti-semite that" especially in reference to the Holocaust. The Holocaust wasn't just a crime against Jews, people are somehow overlooking the fact that so many Soviets, so many Gypsies, so many non-Jews died in the Holocaust but they don't get any of the hype like Jews.

And the whole " German, European " anti-semetic figure is ridiculous as well. There were Arab Nazis, Croatian Nazis, Estonians Nazis, -insert random ethnicity here- Nazis, the Germans were definately not acting on their own.

The fact is that Israel has to SOMEHOW come up with actual reasons besides crying " remember the holocaust, you're a bunch of fascists! " everytime they don't get their way.

*Applause*

Well said, mate.

Steve

I, Brian · 10-20-2007, 02:58 PM

Indeed, a whole string of peoples were affected, and don't forget the mentally ill as well.

However, wasn't the Jew who was specifically identified and targeted as the reason for Germany's problems? And hence justified an industrial attempt at extinction?

Also - please everyone - let's get one thing straight: the political institution that is the Nation State of Israel is exactly that.

So when criticising the foreign and domestic policies of Israel, remember you're criticising a secular government and not some kind of specific mouth-piece for all Judaism.

Israel no more represents the ideologies of Judaism than President Bush represents the interests of all white people or all Christians.

Also, once you start criticising the foreign policies of any particular country, very few can be held to be in moral good stead.

I also find it pretty disturbing that people make the suggestion that Jews in general are just whingeing minnies. Let's be clear - Jews have suffered violent discrimination across Europe for centuries.

For any individual here who neither suffers violence prejudice in their lives, isn't the subject of books in schools that teach you are evil and must be destroyed, and otherwise enjoys a position of safety and privilege, to then suggest those who are and do should just shut up whining I find pretty damn sick.

Yes, the Palestinian issue is one filled with injustices and I doubt anyone here says that what the Palestinians endure is either right and just. What the Palestinians do endure is a state of war and one that has been abused for political ends on all sides of the divide.

Israel as a country is militarily strong, and puts down those who threaten it with a heavy hand. I'm not going to argue that's right - but neither am I going to argue that Palestinian politics which encourages and proliferates that situation is right either.

2c.

cyberpi · 10-20-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Also - please everyone - let's get one thing straight: the political institution that is the Nation State of Israel is exactly that.

So when criticising the foreign and domestic policies of Israel, remember you're criticising a secular government and not some kind of specific mouth-piece for all Judaism.

Israel no more represents the ideologies of Judaism than President Bush represents the interests of all white people or all Christians.

The equivalent of the nation-state of Israel would be if the USA set up laws to allow only White Christians to immigrate to the USA. Then to get rid of the rest, do not do business with the non-White Christians, and bull-doze over their buildings, kill their buffalo, round them up like goats and force march them to a nearby non-White reserve, cut off from natural resources. That 'secular law' says welcome to Israel... if you are Jew.

I, Brian · 10-20-2007, 06:26 PM

Palestinians still form a part of the population of Israel, though. There's no discrimination on skin colour, either, and Israel has a thriving industrial complex that trades with the rest of the world.

Besides, the US did do most of the above criticisms you stated - it's the cornerstone of Native American history.

madeinrussia89 · 10-20-2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Indeed, a whole string of peoples were affected, and don't forget the mentally ill as well.

However, wasn't the Jew who was specifically identified and targeted as the reason for Germany's problems? And hence justified an industrial attempt at extinction?

Also - please everyone - let's get one thing straight: the political institution that is the Nation State of Israel is exactly that.

So when criticising the foreign and domestic policies of Israel, remember you're criticising a secular government and not some kind of specific mouth-piece for all Judaism.

Israel no more represents the ideologies of Judaism than President Bush represents the interests of all white people or all Christians.

Also, once you start criticising the foreign policies of any particular country, very few can be held to be in moral good stead.

I also find it pretty disturbing that people make the suggestion that Jews in general are just whingeing minnies. Let's be clear - Jews have suffered violent discrimination across Europe for centuries.

For any individual here who neither suffers violence prejudice in their lives, isn't the subject of books in schools that teach you are evil and must be destroyed, and otherwise enjoys a position of safety and privilege, to then suggest those who are and do should just shut up whining I find pretty damn sick.

Yes, the Palestinian issue is one filled with injustices and I doubt anyone here says that what the Palestinians endure is either right and just. What the Palestinians do endure is a state of war and one that has been abused for political ends on all sides of the divide.

Israel as a country is militarily strong, and puts down those who threaten it with a heavy hand. I'm not going to argue that's right - but neither am I going to argue that Palestinian politics which encourages and proliferates that situation is right either.

2c.

I realize that Israel is not the mouthpiece for all Judaism, but
it drives me crazy to no end that so many Jews and Christians support
its existence. Especially that Christians support it, since we can't
even own land there, which is beyond the beyonds disgraceful.
I'm not making the suggestion that Jews in general are whiny, but certainly
the government of Israel certainly does a lot of it.

Sure, Jews have suffered violent discrimination (even now), but so have Christians since the beginning and still do to this very day. I don't know what the Jews think they have that is so unique, but many have been discriminated against, and many more have been killed, and they don't get anywhere NEAR the press and they didn't get their own nation afterwards.

Let's think about this, in the Holocaust what was it, 6 million Jews died, but 10-11 million NON-JEW Slavs died, but yet the smaller group still eclipses the other. This is bull****.

And yes, I think the Israelis should shut up about the Holocaust for two damn seconds and look at their own actions. They should look at the blood on their own hands and stop using the past as reasons for oppression of Palestinians. What the Palestinians indure is getting their homeland STOLEN from them, their children starved, and their rights torn away, while Jews get a free state.

The whole reason that this Palestinian question even exists is because of the existence of Israel. Do I support suicide-bombing and guerilla warfare on part of the Palestinians, of course not. But they are running out of options fast, and it is sick to sit by and let Israel walk all over them and facilitate an apartheid all because of this Holocaust scare tactic.

madeinrussia89 · 10-20-2007, 08:52 PM

It is surely discrimination when only 93 percent of Israel's land can be owned or leased ONLY by Jews. Israeli land for Jews only? Prejudice much?

cyberpi · 10-20-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Palestinians still form a part of the population of Israel, though. There's no discrimination on skin colour, either, and Israel has a thriving industrial complex that trades with the rest of the world.

Whatever discriminator or shibboleth is used by the Israeli government to determine a 'Jew', is the discrimination. Genes, ancestry, religion, whatever. I consider it a false extremist statement to say there is 'no' discrimination by skin color in Israel... some method is used to spot, kill, and bulldoze a person's house. A whore trades with the rest of the world but I don't justify her actions by her worldwide industrialist trade... do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Besides, the US did do most of the above criticisms you stated - it's the cornerstone of Native American history.

Precisely my point... and you know what Island that cornerstone came from. So does it justify the Native Indians to behave in kind as racist Zionists and to force the European, Mexican, Christian, Muslim, Jew, and Buddhists off of 'their' land? Does it? Does it give them that right? Israel and whoever supports Zionism says yes. I say no.

A wrong and a wrong is two wrongs... addition, there is no subtracting from history.

Tao_Equus · 10-20-2007, 09:18 PM

Well said MIR.

Seems I am not alowed to be an outspoken atheist here and my posts may well end soon, not of my choice. So for those of you that know me and know I was only ever seeking honest debate know that I did not walk away of my own free will. I am too tired tonight...been a very hard week at work, to make much sense. I only hope tomorrow allows me to continue my talk with you all, those I agree with AND those I do not.

Regards and respects to all...

Tao

flowperson · 10-20-2007, 10:38 PM

Tao my friend...we hardly knew ye .

flow....

enlightenment · 10-21-2007, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Well said MIR.

Seems I am not alowed to be an outspoken atheist here and my posts may well end soon, not of my choice. So for those of you that know me and know I was only ever seeking honest debate know that I did not walk away of my own free will. I am too tired tonight...been a very hard week at work, to make much sense. I only hope tomorrow allows me to continue my talk with you all, those I agree with AND those I do not.

Regards and respects to all...

Tao

How so, Tao?

Steve