Is the cry "Anti-semetic" overused?

[madeinrussia89]

The point is we're talking about the Israel we have here and now, not the 19th century. It doesn't matter how much revenue the Jews brought in, that does not give them the authority to create an apartheid.

Jews only could " purchase " land, well now they are the only ones who can legally lease and own. What a tragedy.

The adoption of guerilla warfare is surely a sign that they have no other choice. There is no negotiating with Israel (we already know that one), the Arab world has turned their back on the Palestinians time and time again, and all we can think to air are their suicide bombings, not the fact that their children are malnourished and they've had their entire lives stripped from them from Israeli guerillas.

Too dangerous for Israel? Putting a ton of Jews in the middle of Muslim territory in the first place is, I don't know why anyone would expect stability from the state of Israel in the first place.

The Palestinians live in Hell and they will never get their homeland back. Yes, the Hamas-Fatah insanity is their fault but they did not bring all this on themselves. Maybe they are having so many children so they can overwhelm the Israelis and finally get a say in something so they don't have to keep sacrificing their sons and daughters to martyrdom to get a point across.

[bob x]

"Jews only could " purchase " land, well now they are the only ones who can legally lease and own. "
Are you completely unaware that there are Arabs who not only live in Israel as citizens but *gasp!* own their own homes?

"The adoption of guerilla warfare is surely a sign that they have no other choice. "
No, it isn't. They have chosen the path of violence, and I will not listen to them whine about how the violence has gone badly for them. How sympathetic are Russians to the Chechens? After Beslan schoolhouse, not even a tiny bit. The Chechens, however, seem to have decided to STOP IT.

"not the fact that their children are malnourished "
They shouldn't pump out babies that they can't support. Who are you going to rob to pay for feeding their children?

[enlightenment]

In the end, there is nothing any of us can do, so *shrugs*, what's the point in getting all bent out of shape over it..?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by enlightenment

In the end, there is nothing any of us can do, so *shrugs*, what's the point in getting all bent out of shape over it..?

FALSE

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

FALSE

Okay, tell me, what have you done, and what impact has it had, since actions are only of use if they have an effect.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by enlightenment

Okay, tell me, what have you done, and what impact has it had, since actions are only of use if they have an effect.

I said, "FALSE". Did it have an impact? I hope it convinced you to rethink your stated belief.

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I said, "FALSE". Did it have an impact? I hope it convinced you to rethink your stated belief.

Translation = you have done nothing.

Yes or no?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by bob x

Are you completely unaware that there are Arabs who not only live in Israel as citizens but *gasp!* own their own homes?

Would these be the houses that are regularly bulldozed or the ones that the owners need a renewable monthly permit to enter or the ones that the owners have to destroy before they finish building because their permits weren't in order (of course that would be hard as Arabs can't get permits to build homes)?

Originally Posted by bob x

No, it isn't. They have chosen the path of violence, and I will not listen to them whine about how the violence has gone badly for them.

My goodness imagine the audacity of these mothers 'whining' that their daughters get shot in the head while sitting at their school desks.

Originally Posted by bob x

They shouldn't pump out babies that they can't support. Who are you going to rob to pay for feeding their children?

Perhaps you could donate to a sterilization programme? Your slogan could be "forced sterlization for all undesirables" although the nazi's may have the copyright on that one!

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by enlightenment

Translation = you have done nothing.

Yes or no?

No, I have done something and it had an immediate effect. Whether or not there is an impact is your choice.

[bob x]

Would these be the houses that are regularly bulldozed...

I was talking about the Arabs who are citizens, within the "Green Line" Israel, not the situation within the territories. MadeinRussia was under the impression that non-Jews are not allowed to own property in Israel: that is not true.

Perhaps you could donate to a sterilization programme?

I was not suggesting anything of the sort, but it is a seriously unwise choice to have children you cannot support, and then demand that someone else pay for them. I have sympathy for those who are trying to do productive work and earn a living, for themselves and their families, and having a hard time of it; no sympathy for those who contribute nothing to the world but destruction and expect to be subsidized for it. Palestinians come in both varieties, of course, but the destruction of livelihoods for those Palestinians who were wanting to be productive has been a deliberate decision by the Palestinian leadership, and that leadership was freely chosen by the majority of the population. Somehow when somebody gives me a hard-luck story, "Gee, I can't find a decent job, just because I brought a gun to my last place of employ and shot a couple of my fellow workers", I am not too sympathetic, particularly if he still doesn't get the concept that it is wrong for him to be shooting random people.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by bob x

I was talking about the Arabs who are citizens, within the "Green Line" Israel, not the situation within the territories. MadeinRussia was under the impression that non-Jews are not allowed to own property in Israel: that is not true.

I was not suggesting anything of the sort, but it is a seriously unwise choice to have children you cannot support, and then demand that someone else pay for them. I have sympathy for those who are trying to do productive work and earn a living, for themselves and their families, and having a hard time of it; no sympathy for those who contribute nothing to the world but destruction and expect to be subsidized for it. Palestinians come in both varieties, of course, but the destruction of livelihoods for those Palestinians who were wanting to be productive has been a deliberate decision by the Palestinian leadership, and that leadership was freely chosen by the majority of the population. Somehow when somebody gives me a hard-luck story, "Gee, I can't find a decent job, just because I brought a gun to my last place of employ and shot a couple of my fellow workers", I am not too sympathetic, particularly if he still doesn't get the concept that it is wrong for him to be shooting random people.

I don't think it is as cut-and-dry as you think, bobx. I don't know as much as I would like about the Palestinians, but I do know that they are impoverished, struggling, and have been forcibly removed from their land by the "international community" and the Israelis. Yes they react with violence at times, but we must take into account that they have been forcibly pushed out of land that they occupied before the establishment of this Israeli state, and continue to be pushed out. They are also targets of violence, not only practitioners of it. As human beings, they have every right to resist. Theirs is a desperate struggle of an impoverished, marginalized people. The world tends to demand a lot of them--either suffer peaceably or protest peacefully, come begging to outside forces for international aid. That must do something to a people's dignity.

The majority population argument you are using is quite flawed. Until the beginning of the 20th century, if I have my facts straight, they were a loosely organized, tribal people. A modern democratic state isn't exactly their native state of affairs. You must pardon them if they are having a hard time adjusting to a world civilization that is squeezing them from all sides.

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

No, I have done something and it had an immediate effect. Whether or not there is an impact is your choice.

Well, what did you do then?

Whether or not it had an impact is clearly not my choice at all, it would be for everyone to look at, and measure, to see if whatever it was that you did, made any difference.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by enlightenment

Well, what did you do then?

Again, I said "False" to your stated belief that you can do nothing.

Originally Posted by enlightenment

Whether or not it had an impact is clearly not my choice at all, it would be for everyone to look at, and measure, to see if whatever it was that you did, made any difference.

Nobody can measure what you do in the future until you've done it. If you have no choice over what you do then you are already dead.

[enlightenment]

Okay, apart from repeating the word 'false' over and over, what can you do then? Or what can I do? Is posting on here going to make any difference?

[bob x]

I don't think it is as cut-and-dry as you think, bobx

I don't, actually, think it is cut-and-dried. I recognize that they have grievances; I just do not consider that an excuse. I have been very one-sided in my posting because I am angered at the continual excuse-making for gross crimes. I will be more sympathetic to doing something about their grievances when they stop it.

The world tends to demand a lot of them--either suffer peaceably or protest peacefully

No. The world doesn't demand this from them. The world subsidizes their continued pointless violence and excuses or glorifies it.

The majority population argument you are using is quite flawed. Until the beginning of the 20th century, if I have my facts straight, they were a loosely organized, tribal people. A modern democratic state isn't exactly their native state of affairs.

I was speaking about the current economic collapse, and the leadership that both tells them they should have lots of children, and destroys the economic prospects for them. That leadership has been ratified by overwhelming vote.
But well before that, polls among the Palestinians have always shown strong support for the violent factions, and only negligible support for would-be peacemakers.
Until the beginning of the 20th century, you are correct, there had never been any such thing as "democracy" among them. The British conducted an election for a Palestinian National Council in 1921, but it was such an unfamiliar concept that many stayed away, feeling suspicious. Muslimwoman pointed out in one of our discussions that Amin al-Husseini, who was then anointed by the British as "Grand Mufti" (a title inherited from the Ottomans for head of the civilian administration), was only the fourth-highest vote-getting in the Council elections; however, his support may well have been strongest among those who boycotted the election, and he was the only leader with a demonstrated ability to mobilize mass street support. His disastrous leadership has marked the Palestinian political culture ever since.