Is the cry "Anti-semetic" overused?

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by madeinrussia89

It is surely discrimination when only 93 percent of Israel's land can be owned or leased ONLY by Jews. Israeli land for Jews only? Prejudice much?

Applauds again.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Well said MIR.

Seems I am not alowed to be an outspoken atheist here and my posts may well end soon, not of my choice. So for those of you that know me and know I was only ever seeking honest debate know that I did not walk away of my own free will. I am too tired tonight...been a very hard week at work, to make much sense. I only hope tomorrow allows me to continue my talk with you all, those I agree with AND those I do not.

Regards and respects to all...

Tao

Well if the experience is more negative than positive then of course you should move on. Or maybe take a break of indeterminate length? Or post less often? If you do escape leave me some clues as to how you managed it. What makes escaping difficult Tao, I think, is people saying stuff like "Everyone's opinion is as valid as anyone else. An articulate forthright person, speaking from their recently awakened feeling of freedom, as their opinions become crystallised around a particular POV (atheism), is particularly welcome as a counter balance to the weight of theistic posts. Even a Scotsman."

s.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Seems I am not alowed to be an outspoken atheist here

Not at all - but in private I've raised concerns about your posting behaviour of late, across multiple threads and topics. It's normal to try and resolve such issues in private.

[Tao_Equus]

I have been posting rather venomously across several threads of late which aside from stretching the patience of moderators is a bit undignified. The opinions and attitudes I have attempted to counter may be better approached by making fewer posts with much more detailed supportive material. Not had the time of late to do that which is perhaps a part of the reason I descended into vitriol. My apologies.

I am reminded of that old saying about everybody having 3 selves. There is the you you think you are, the you that you really are and the you that others see. A certain individual would have me painted as a bigot for accepting that there may be more than a grain of truth in certain 'alternative' sources of the historical record. I hope most see that I am not blindly following any set idea but looking for the truth wherever I find it.

The US has given Israel $19 billion in just military funding during Bush's reign. That is more than the annual GDP of 95 sovereign countries. The money is mostly used to back up land theft and suppression of human dignity for the native population of that region. The same amount of money spent on building a joint economy would leave few supporters of insurgency. But neither the US nor Israel seeks peace there. Israel is a US friendly garrison state strategically placed to deliver hammer blow strikes anywhere in southern Europe, the ME and North Africa. If Israel is really afraid of Iran then why does it sell arms to them?

What I am incensed about really tho is that the Jewish state that was born out of the horrors of the holocaust has absolutely no compassion for the people they displace. And this goes to Jewish people throughout the world. They more than any other group should be screaming for peaceful and respectful resolution. But only a tiny minority are. I want Israel to exist, I want the Jewish peoples to have a place they can call home. But not at the price of leaving the Palestinian people homeless. There is no genuine effort of conflict resolution coming from Israel and until there is I will continue to be outspoken against their tyranny.

Tao

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I have been posting rather venomously across several threads of late which aside from stretching the patience of moderators is a bit undignified. Tao

Can't say I have really noticed, Tao.

Anyway, generally speaking, I often feel that the best moderators/forums are those you hardly know are there.

JMHO, of course...

[bob x]

I want Israel to exist, I want the Jewish peoples to have a place they can call home. But not at the price of leaving the Palestinian people homeless.

What the Palestinians need to do is renounce the practice of random murder. They've been doing it for 90 years, and all that time their position has steadily worsened-- and deservedly so.

[madeinrussia89]

Originally Posted by bob x

What the Palestinians need to do is renounce the practice of random murder. They've been doing it for 90 years, and all that time their position has steadily worsened-- and deservedly so.

So they deserve to be so poor that they have to watch their children starve to death?

[I, Brian]

I guess it's the point that there's no progress with violence.

Here in the UK the IRA and other terrorist groups dared to call a permanent ceasefire, down weapons, and seek a political settlement. While the process sometimes looked as though it would go off track, the result is a far more peaceful and stable Northern Ireland and UK in general.

The IRA's beef went back through centuries, yet were able to dare to plan for a future - but they needed to want it so much that they would down arms to fight for it.

[enlightenment]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I guess it's the point that there's no progress with violence. .

Generally, I would concur with that sentiment, however, soemetimes there can be peace through violence.

I don't think Germany were much for negotiating, during WW2, thus, the UK had little choice but to delcare war (violence) on them.

As for the whole Israel/Palestine/ME thing, personally, I feel it would be best if the West just freaking well left them to it.

Don't give any help or favour to either side.

If they desire peace for themselves, let them find it.

If their desire for violence is stronger, then so be it.

Nothing I can do.

Sadly..

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Here in the UK the IRA and other terrorist groups dared to call a permanent ceasefire, down weapons, and seek a political settlement. While the process sometimes looked as though it would go off track, the result is a far more peaceful and stable Northern Ireland and UK in general.

But didn't the IRA only agree to a ceasefire and down weapons when our Government agreed to talks, that included the military wing?

Even after the ceasefire there were sporadic attacks by splinter groups but our Government accepted that this was not the main group and carried on talking.

That to me is the big difference, you don't have to like the people at the other side of the table but to shut the door and not let them into talks is simply going to prolong the troubles and encourage the fighting imo.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

What I am incensed about really tho is that the Jewish state that was born out of the horrors of the holocaust has absolutely no compassion for the people they displace. And this goes to Jewish people throughout the world. They more than any other group should be screaming for peaceful and respectful resolution. But only a tiny minority are. I want Israel to exist, I want the Jewish peoples to have a place they can call home. But not at the price of leaving the Palestinian people homeless. There is no genuine effort of conflict resolution coming from Israel and until there is I will continue to be outspoken against their tyranny.

Bravo, I second that motion. From where I sit, Israel, in a SMALL way, has become the monster it was running away from.

Yes they are fighting a monster of their own but a monster largely of their own making.

[bob x]

So they deserve to be so poor that they have to watch their children starve to death?

A functioning economy requires trading with the neighbors. This should go without saying, but apparently it doesn't. They have chosen their impoverishment.

you don't have to like the people at the other side of the table but to shut the door and not let them into talks is simply going to prolong the troubles and encourage the fighting imo

This I would agree with. The Bush policy of no talking at all has been a disaster.

Yes they are fighting a monster of their own but a monster largely of their own making.

This I cannot agree with. The Palestinians were behaving monstrously from the very start.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by bob x

This I cannot agree with. The Palestinians were behaving monstrously from the very start.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Israel's past behaviour Bob. I agree the Palestinians have not behaved well at times but I really believe that Israel has done nothing to deal with their fears and has in fact encouraged the fighting at times.

Yes Israel should be able to defend itself from terrorist attacks but to be frank if I was sitting in the middle of countries that wanted to wipe me off the face of the planet, I would probably try very hard to make peace, keep my head down and rely on my peaceful approach to bring support from friendly countries.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by bob x

What the Palestinians need to do is renounce the practice of random murder. They've been doing it for 90 years, and all that time their position has steadily worsened-- and deservedly so.

Bob, I dont know where you get off on making statements like that. This is deserving ? :

Why cant you get it through to your thinking regions that this is their land, their communities, their future. Israeli's nor imported Jews have a right to forcibly remove them, herd them into the worst areas and force them to live in extreme poverty. You talk about trade with neighbours but Israel has a siege on Gaza, there is no way in or out without Israeli say so. Its frozen the assets of virtually everyone who lives there. It refuses to talk with the democratically elected representatives of the people. It fires artillery from ships and rockets from helicopter gunships into residential areas killing far more civilians than "suspected" militants. There is open racism against Palestinians, their schools are under-funded, their wages lower, and in general they are treated like they are scum. Well I tell you if I was living in Gaza I'd have a rocket on my shoulder. You cannot subject people to such ill treatment and expect no anger. Your attitude is not naive, its far too deliberate for that. I do not know who or what you are but calling me a bigot is perhaps the greatest hypocrisy I have yet encountered on CR. I am withdrawing from any debate with you forthwith. I will not be a party to your overt racism in any way shape or form any longer.

Tao

[madeinrussia89]

Originally Posted by bob x

A functioning economy requires trading with the neighbors. This should go without saying, but apparently it doesn't. They have chosen their impoverishment.

Oh yes, of course, because Israel is simply the fairest trading partner of them all. What exactly would they have to trade? Each other?

The Palestinians were behaving monstrously from the very start.

How were they supposed to behave? Attempt diplomacy in an invasion?