Is the bible corrupted. - Page 5

Dor · 08-10-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Dor, back to your definitions of 1 and 5, which bibles are you referring to that are corrupted? Which version do you feel isn't? I think the question is, have all of them been corrupted...

I have heard it said the only one and true version is the KJV, and the reality is that is his version of biblical reality, bought and paid for.

Well any of them that attack Gods Word, try to get rid of the divinity of Christ , try to get rid of the Trinity, etc...

Please show me where the KJV is his version of biblical reality, bought and paid for!

cyberpi · 08-11-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Well any of them that attack Gods Word, try to get rid of the divinity of Christ , try to get rid of the Trinity, etc...

Please show me where the KJV is his version of biblical reality, bought and paid for!

Who wrote the word Trinity? Is it a word from God (swt)? Is it a word Jesus (pbuh) spoke of? Did the Holy Spirit give it to you?

Abogado del Diablo · 08-11-2006, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Who wrote the word Trinity? Is it a word from God (swt)? Is it a word Jesus (pbuh) spoke of? Did the Holy Spirit give it to you?

The earliest surviving writing containing the term (trinitas) roughly in its "orthodox" form is from Tertullian in the Adversus Praxean.

cyberpi · 08-11-2006, 01:13 AM

So when I speak against the Trinity then I speak against the beliefs of Praxeas and Tertullian. Who writes your beliefs?

Abogado del Diablo · 08-11-2006, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

So when I speak against the Trinity then I speak against the beliefs of Praxeas and Tertullian. Who writes your beliefs?

Just Tertullian of the two. Adversus Praxean was another of the many early "anti-Heretic" boondoggles the early "fathers" liked to occupy their time writing. This one is made particularly ironic, of course, by the fact that Tertullian was denounced as a heretic by the heresy-hunting monster he helped create when he became a Montanist later in life.

Quahom1 · 08-11-2006, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

Just Tertullian of the two. Adversus Praxean was another of the many early "anti-Heretic" boondoggles the early "fathers" liked to occupy their time writing. This one is made particularly ironic, of course, by the fact that Tertullian was denounced as a heretic by the heresy-hunting monster he helped create when he became a Montanist later in life.

Very interesting indeed...

v/r

Q

Abogado del Diablo · 08-11-2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Very interesting indeed...

v/r

Q

I thought you'd like that.

cyberpi · 08-11-2006, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

Just Tertullian of the two. Adversus Praxean was another of the many early "anti-Heretic" boondoggles the early "fathers" liked to occupy their time writing. This one is made particularly ironic, of course, by the fact that Tertullian was denounced as a heretic by the heresy-hunting monster he helped create when he became a Montanist later in life.

Which of the two claimed Jesus (pbuh) was God (swt)?

Abogado del Diablo · 08-11-2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Which of the two claimed Jesus (pbuh) was God (swt)?

Tertullian. He was the one who was later denounced as a heretic by the Church himself. Though his earlier thoughts and writings remained a cornerstone of "orthodox" theology and (more importantly) methodology.

Abogado del Diablo · 08-11-2006, 02:25 AM

And to clarify, Tertullian was the first to start talking about the theological construct of the trinitas. The more general idea that Jesus was "God" was also championed by Irenaeus, and by Justin Martyr and Polycarp before him.

JustifiedByFaith · 08-11-2006, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

And to clarify, Tertullian was the first to start talking about the theological construct of the trinitas. The more general idea that Jesus was "God" was also championed by Irenaeus, and by Justin Martyr and Polycarp before him.

Dear Abogado del Diablo,

Plus, only God can be without sin and forgive sin to the extent of wiping it clean! Jesus fits this criteria and allowed Himself to be worshiped.

Abogado del Diablo · 08-11-2006, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustifiedByFaith

Dear Abogado del Diablo,

Plus, only God can be without sin and forgive sin to the extent of wiping it clean! Jesus fits this criteria and allowed Himself to be worshiped.

I'm just putting a few historical facts out there. As they say here in Texas: "I don't have a dog in this fight."

cyberpi · 08-11-2006, 03:29 AM

Why not? I am simply looking for the origin of who created the Trinity... because its not in the bible. If it were the word of God (swt), then I don't want to counter it... so I look up Tertullian's literature to see if he claims God (swt) told him. No... Tertullian was not a profit. In fact he was countering Praxeas who thought Jesus (pbuh) and God (swt) were so much the same that you could say god the Father died on the cross. The guy first known to write about a Trinity was AGAINST saying Jesus (pbuh) and God (swt) were the same.

http://www.tertullian.org/works/adversus_praxean.htm
http://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf03/anf03-43.htm
http://www.tertullian.org/articles/e...raxeas_eng.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustifiedByFaith

Plus, only God can be without sin and forgive sin to the extent of wiping it clean! Jesus fits this criteria and allowed Himself to be worshiped.

What do you mean by worship? The same word used in the gospels in the bible? Who wrote this belief?

Quahom1 · 08-11-2006, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Why not? I am simply looking for the origin of who created the Trinity... because its not in the bible. If it were the word of God (swt), then I don't want to counter it... so I look up Tertullian's literature to see if he claims God (swt) told him. No... Tertullian was not a profit. In fact he was countering Praxeas who thought Jesus (pbuh) and God (swt) were so much the same that you could say god the Father died on the cross. The guy first known to write about a Trinity was AGAINST saying Jesus (pbuh) and God (swt) were the same.

http://www.tertullian.org/works/adversus_praxean.htm
http://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf03/anf03-43.htm
http://www.tertullian.org/articles/e...raxeas_eng.htm

What do you mean by worship? The same word used in the gospels in the bible? Who wrote this belief?

No, you just do not see it in the Bible. That does not make it not so.

That is what is called, your opinion.

It can not be helped if references are pointed out but are ignored by those who refuse to accept them. But to continuously hammer at something that has been explained over and over again, gets a bit tedious.

v/r

Q

wil · 08-11-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Well any of them that attack Gods Word, try to get rid of the divinity of Christ , try to get rid of the Trinity, etc...

Please show me where the KJV is his version of biblical reality, bought and paid for!

Namaste Dor,

I am still trying to get a handle on which bible versions you believe to be sanctioned or ok, and which versions you feel are corrupted.

As for the KJV being bought and paid for. It is after all KING JAME"S version. It isn't Jesus's version, or Mose's version, or Jefferson's version. It is King Jame's version. When one has power and money and can gather a group together to entertain this sort of endeavor, one gets to create, buy and pay for, their own version.

The Jeffersonian Bible, by the US President, author of the constitution, Thomas Jefferson would be one of the corrupt ones I believe under your criteria...

So on one hand I feel all bibles are corrupted, have had their words modified by man, indiviudual thoughts and interpretations inserted.

But on the other hand I feel G-d is involved, spirit is involved in all interpretations, and their is value in it all.