Is suicide morally or ethically wrong?

[arthra]

Kind of morbid topic this... As far as medical issues go I'm still fairly healthy and as long as I'm able to serve others in some way would probably not consider suicide for myself...

Suicide or taking one's life is forbidden for Baha'is however there was a notable Baha'i who drowned himself in despair after the passing of Baha'u'llah from this life back there in 1892.

He was a poet named Nabil-i-Azam who composed a lengthy poem which was also a history and known today as "Nabil's Narrative".

"Though the Night of Parting endless seem as thy nigh-black hair,
Bahá, Bahá,
Yet we meet at last, and the gloom is past in thy lightning's
glare, Bahá, Bahá!
To my heart from thee was a signal shown that I to all
men should make known
That they, as the ball to the goal doth fly, should to thee
repair, Bahá, Bahá!
At this my call from the quarters four men's hearts and
souls to thy quarters pour:
What, forsooth, could attract them more than that region
fair, Bahá, Bahá?
The World hath attained to Heaven's worth, and a Paradise
is the face of earth
Since at length thereon a breeze hath blown from thy nature
rare, Bahá, Bahá!
Bountiful art thou, as all men know: at a glance two
Worlds thou would'st e'en bestow
On the suppliant hands of thy direst foe, if he makes his
prayer, Bahá, Bahá!"

His act of suicide was still forgiven:

“He will be immersed in the ocean of pardon and forgiveness and will become the recipient of bounty and favour.”

See:

Nabíl-i-A`zam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[LenoBee]

Suicide is often about a tipped scale of enormous pain and darkness when it becomes a viable option. Financial loss, loss of loved one pain, divorce pain, physical pain, no hope for tomorrow pain, failure pain. Some who have done it may not really have wanted to die.

Perhaps the question is best answered by those who have tried it, know people who have tried it, fail or succeed, for those who have contemplated it, by those who are there to offer help and guidance and for those who have studied it, especially those who are matured survivors and have survived the loss of one they love.

I am not for or against suicide.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste greymare,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by greymare

ok, now its time for me to add my two bobs worth, and you may not like it

since i'm curious about everyones view it could hardly be fairly said that i wouldn't like yours when offered, could it?

suicide is a cop out. Its an easy way out for someone who cant handle their problems, but it doesnt fix the problem for those that are left behind

whilst that may be that doesn't tell me if you think it is moral, ethical, immoral, unethical, neither or both.

i note, curiously, that there is a strong aspect of putting ones own feelings before those of the potential suicide which makes the suicide wrong. it's a view which not paritcular to yourself, greymare, just one which i find to be rather unusual.

essentially your argument, if i can understand it, is that there are other options for a problem and the people effected by the suicide make suicide the wrong choice in your view. does something being the wrong choice in your view mean that said something is unethical or immoral?

metta,

~v

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Wil,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by wil

I think the morally, ethically obviously has to do with societal norms. And if a family or society has differing views of death than current convention suicide can be quite an admirable thing.

it is my view that such is demonstrably correct as the previous examples in this thread indicate.

We seem to enjoy placing blame in this current world. Suicide could just be the ultimate personal responsibility.

interesting point of view, i'd not considered it in this manner though i can see it's application.

metta,

~v

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Q,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Quahom

You people just don't get it.

we *get it* Q, we don't agree. they are two different things and you do a disservice to all involved to confuse them.

Suicide is WRONG for self interests.

is it your self interest that forms the basis of such view? why is something wrong if it is motivated by self interest?

The rules are established.

on the contrary, the rules are certainly not established and seem to vary from culture to culture and from historical epoc to epoc.

metta,

~v

[greymare]

imho, id say morally wrong. although i am presuming that the person has morals.
I also couldnt say ethically wrong because not everyone has ethics.(get it, morals above ethics) imho

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Arthra,

thank you for the post. nice to hear from you again

Originally Posted by arthra

Suicide or taking one's life is forbidden for Baha'is however there was a notable Baha'i who drowned himself in despair after the passing of Baha'u'llah from this life back there in 1892.

......
His act of suicide was still forgiven:

interesting, thank you for the scripture. i'm not really sure what your view is in regards to the OP... do you think it is moral/immoral, ethical/unethical, both, neither?

metta,

~v

[Vajradhara]

Namaste greymare,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by greymare

imho, id say morally wrong. although i am presuming that the person has morals.

whilst it is true that we do not know the potential suicides moral view and, in my estimation, trying to determine such is not going to be very productive and we'll probably get it wrong anyways. that is why i'm asking about your moral and ethical view on the matter

i'm not a big fan of mind reading so i hardly ever post threads where i'm advocating that we all give it a go

I also couldnt say ethically wrong because not everyone has ethics.(get it, morals above ethics) imho

this is an interesting view and one which, frankly, i've not considered. in my experience all social animals have ethics though we see examples in all social animal groups of beings that lack the same ethical parameters of the rest of their group and those beings also tend to be the ones which are amoral. in any case i'm curious about your view in regards to the ethical and moral nature of the question under discussion.

i would gather that you would deem suicide to be morally wrong, immoral but not necessarily ethically wrong, unethical, is that correct?

metta,

~v

[greymare]

i dont know, now ive just confused myself.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Greymare,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by greymare

i dont know, now ive just confused myself.

no worries... our ideas are, hopefully, fluid and we have the ability to change them as we accumulate new ideas and experiences it's possible that you've not given this sort of thought to this topic in quite some time.

i find myself thinking on the dissolution of my physical form and of all sentient beings fairly often and have given much thought to this idea which is, perhaps, why i'm able to ramble on about it so

metta,

~v

[greymare]

good, at least im not the only one a little confused. LOL
I used to be indecisive, now, im not sure..................

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

i find myself thinking on the dissolution of my physical form and of all sentient beings fairly often and have given much thought to this idea which is, perhaps, why i'm able to ramble on about it so

Fond regards, Vajra!

I'm sorry I haven't read the thread, I will spare the excuses. But this last comment concerns me just a bit...is there any particular reason you might spend "fairly often" considering this? I am not asking pertaining to whether I consider the matter moral/ethical or not, I am asking out of concern for a friend.

Being in continual pain with a degenerative disease, the thought has crossed my mind occasionally too. I feel it is a personal decision, one that should be deeply considered first. Life is a gift no matter what the source, ending it prematurely is in my opinion showing disrespect for the gift...presuming a "normal" existance. I allow myself the caveat that when it becomes unbearable, perhaps ending the suffering is the better path...but that is a bridge I will cross when I get there. That is a path for me, not one I advocate for others. There is something that just doesn't sit right with me encouraging others to throw away such a precious gift as life is.

I'm rather fond of saying, "today is a good day, I'm on this side of the daisies and I'm not worm food yet." Being able to get out of bed, put my clothes on and feed myself are certainly bonus on top of that.

[greymare]

dont do anything stupid juan too3 or ill kick your a--. lol

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by greymare

dont do anything stupid juan too3 or ill kick your a--. lol

LOL...you'll kill me if I kill me...

No need to concern yourself. Should the time come it is still a ways off.

Though I have long thought the best way would be to slip into the woods for a nice long hike, and just not come home.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Though I have long thought the best way would be to slip into the woods for a nice long hike, and just not come home.

I never considered that suicide. That is my plan if I ever have a degenerative disease or cancer that becomes unbearable.

But I don't think it's suicide, as I'm pretty sure I'd fight to live (automatically, it's just instinct) until the end.

As a Druid and as an anthropologist, I see it as allowing the natural process, not as deliberately killing ourselves. Refusing treatment and society is not the same thing as taking a gun to our head or OD'ing on medication (at least in my book).

We domesticated ourselves and live artificially long lives in an artificial environment.

I see death by exposure as simply choosing to remove the artificiality and offer our animal bodies up to nature and her processes.