Is Prophecy dead?

[Pet Zepi]

Okay.. that was a bit pessimitstic, I suppose.
Let me reiterate my statement a bit.

Religion is like water.
Like politics....like money.
Like the words that make up a language.

Like water.

If it remains motionless for too long, it becomes stagnant.

It must keep moving.....changing with the people, representing the people that practice it while still eminating from the source in a natural state.

It is not "The Truth" ...it is merely an expression of The Truth.

People punish their children for farting in church and laughing themselves silly, wondering why a 600 year-old dirge from the hymnal doesn't seem to hold their attention.

In fact, those children are, in all probably, the only ones in the congregation expressing God's will ..because "The Truth"... is, simply, that the music is boring and no longer provides a connection from God...to the children..

..who are constantly changing and progressing every day, every new generation.

It won't be their fault when they stop going to church altogether but, in fact, the fault of their parents and, ultimately, that of the ministry.

Religion is a symbol of our connection with God. No more, no less.

And, when a symbol no longer holds meaning for the people who employ it, no longer represents them... the channel becomes clogged, the connection between the people and the inspiration behind the symbol's design ..is inherently and utterly lost.

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by Pet Zepi

...Religion is a symbol of our connection with God. No more, no less.

And, when a symbol no longer holds meaning for the people who employ it, no longer represents them... the channel becomes clogged, the connection between the people and the inspiration behind the symbol's design ..is inherently and utterly lost.

I sympathize with part of what you say (being a member of a young religion can do that) but I think there is a bit of the pendulum swinging a bit too far. It never ceases to amaze me that people generally have no problem becoming pessimistic over religion's admittedly depressing history without noting God's efforts in kind. Indeed it should not be hard to see something of the kind except when it is happening. Like winter before spring...

[Pet Zepi]

Originally Posted by smkolins

..a bit of the pendulum swinging a bit too far...etc.

I think that is basically what I am trying to say.

I, personally, am most optimistic in my walk with God but, then,
I am not just following blindly, wating for a miracle to drop out
of the sky as I drone what has become a meaningless chant.

The miracle comes from God....through us.

So...we either change the chant or learn the history behind it,
its hidden meaning, transfuse it with our own life...and ressurect it.

Then the miracle is seen all around us.

[I, Brian]

Good post.

[StrangeQuark]

Originally Posted by WHKeith

I should add that only very, very, VERY rarely does "prophecy" have anything to do with foretelling the future. Propehecy is more properly seen as "forth-telling" rather than "fore-telling."

I stand corrected. In the thread on Dead Sea Scrolls I paraphrased a scholar who said that Revelation was not written as a prohecy. Even if the author meant to convey how believers should conduct themselves when faced with persecution in his time, this could still be a form of "forth-telling."

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by Pet Zepi

I think that is basically what I am trying to say.

I, personally, am most optimistic in my walk with God but, then,
I am not just following blindly, wating for a miracle to drop out
of the sky as I drone what has become a meaningless chant.

The miracle comes from God....through us.

So...we either change the chant or learn the history behind it,
its hidden meaning, transfuse it with our own life...and ressurect it.

Then the miracle is seen all around us.

Well said but I would caution making this a formula defining how God may or may not act. While 'A pure heart is as a mirror; cleanse it with the burnish of love and severance from all save God, that the true sun may shine within it and the eternal morning dawn. Then wilt thou clearly see the meaning of "Neither doth My earth nor My heaven contain Me, but the heart of My faithful servant containeth Me."' But do not imagine Him chained to our good graces - "How can the hand of Him Who is the King in truth, Who caused the countenance of Moses to be made manifest, and conferred upon Him the robe of Prophethood-how can the hand of such a One be chained and fettered?" Indeed He is able "... the overflowing showers of Whose mercy have rained down upon high and low alike, and the splendors of Whose grace have been shed over both the obedient and the rebellious."

"Indeed God is Self-Sufficient..."

[Mus Zibii]

Did prophecy end, or did people become less credulous as the world got smaller? Its been argued (surprise, surprise) that the accepted prophets in Judaism and elsewhere were wrong... often. Not just in foreseeing the furture--in spite of the clever usage of vague referencing--but morally speaking too.

Modern day holy intermediaries seem not to fare much better. Their visions culminating into either watered-down perversion of the original message, mass destruction or just plain humilation.

One could also say the prophet was replaced by the spin-doctor and social-commentator--who are just as frequently self-serving and in error.

Maybe someday God will stop being so shy.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Mus Zibii,

Originally Posted by Mus Zibii

Its been argued (surprise, surprise) that the accepted prophets in Judaism and elsewhere were wrong... often.

It doesn't really amaze me that some people go on about prophets being wrong, that is pretty typical of those who prefer a different flavor. What amazes me is that the Jewish prophets got things so right, considering they wrote, in the case of David and Psalms 22 prophecying the crucifiction of Messiah, a thousand years before the event. In the case of the "accepted prophets", almost three thousand years have transpired.

One could also say the prophet was replaced by the spin-doctor and social-commentator--who are just as frequently self-serving and in error.

And spin doctors and social commentators can choose to see the glass as half empty. Some of us chose to see the glass as half full. Some social commentators prefer to see the unfulfilled portions of prophecy, and point to these as being "wrong," completely ignoring how often the "accepted prophets" got it right considering how long ago the prophecies were given.

It is early, and I need to get ready for work, but I will have to take the time and show some that I am aware of, such as the prophecy that sure sounds an awful lot like a prediction of the automobile, made long before the advent of steam powered locomotion.

[Mus Zibii]

I was thinking today about Mohomet's vision of paradise being a place of young women, boy servants and cold drinks. Dude, that's totally Vegas. LOL He foresaw Vegas.

[shannon]

If prophesy dead to you...

Then you are dead to prophesy.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

There's a general perception in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, that prophecy is effectively dead - that all that required saying is said.

However, is this an interpretation supported directly by scripture - or is this a general assertion from events and human developments?

Does humanity no longer have a direct connection to God, excepting through the pages of books?

A general discussion question.

Hello Brian,

If one reads the end of "Revelations" in the New testament, one finds the 'warning' that nothing can be added, nor taken from this book. Yet at least 23 "chapters" have been taken or added to the book since its inception.

In our youth, prophets spoke and the whole world listened (or at least acknowledged hearing). In modern times "prophets" speak, and no one really listens.

Using the Bible's time frame (centuries vs. days), recently we have had at least one possible worldly prophesizing (by three children at Fatima). Does anyone recall what three things were about to happen if?....

I'll give you a hint as to one prophecy. Mother Russia, would become a mother again...not a sterile stag.

This was years before the Tsar fell, and The Soviet government took over.

The second predicted the end of one World war, and the beginning of a second.

The third??? who the hell knows. The Vatican sits on it.

We know this much. What the kids said came true (so far). The problem is that man is so loud in his "industrial/enlightened" age that he can't hear when he burps or when he farts, let alone when GOD may or may not whisper to him. Hell, we can't even hear ourselves think.

HOW are we going to hear a potential prophet? hmmm?

bang on that gong and see if you can't find a tune.


v/r

Q

[Mus Zibii]

I hate to add this anecdote following Quahom1 since he summed things up so well, but just recently I encountered some (what I would call) fundamentalist Christians. I was poo-pooing the Rapture and the alpha male quoted from the book of Deut - in the old English KJV with the stereotypical southern accent - he quoted the bit about how to tell a real prophet from the fake by 'if the things they say come to pass'. They all expressed certainity that they (we) were living in the 'end-times'. I spoke up, and proclaimed myself a prophet of God and said that: verily (yeah, I said verily) the world shall (yeah, I said shall) stand evermore. They got terribly freaked out like a lightening bolt was going to hit me. When it didn't they gave the impression of 'we'll see' and we parted.

Walking away I felt all proud of myself for teasing some fearfully faithful people. About five minutes later I felt guilty as hell for teasing them. I wasn't moved by anything divine, unless you consider common sense divine. I can't say what lesson exactly I learned, but...

On a related note, I've been plagued by adware popups. Coincidence?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Mus Zibii

Walking away I felt all proud of myself for teasing some fearfully faithful people. About five minutes later I felt guilty as hell for teasing them. I wasn't moved by anything divine, unless you consider common sense divine. I can't say what lesson exactly I learned, but...

On a related note, I've been plagued by adware popups. Coincidence?

I was on a Govenors Island ferry (New York), listening to a group of sailors poking fun at a young woman who was a bit larger than sexually acceptable. But in the midst of these sailors was one who worked for the Chaplain. And this young man professed to be a devout Christian (prior to this incedent). Yet there he was laughing at the jokes these sailors were making about this young woman.

I said nothing, but watched and listened for the 30 minute ride across the harbor.

When we got to the other side...

I physically confronted this 'christian man', and told him flat that if he were the example of Christianity, and I were I Christian wannabe, and I saw what happened on the ferry?... the last thing I would become was a Christian.

Mus, not only did I break his heart, I broke his spirit. He married that girl a year later, but I think it was a bad marriage (she sure as hell wasn't the flame of his youth).

I think God cautions the "wise" to not act imputent...the damage to the simple and pure in heart can be irreversible. And the price is too high for us to pay in the end.

v/r

Q

[Mus Zibii]

That was the lesson I was looking for. Thanks.

[Mus Zibii]

I was thinking today about the Jewish concept of prophet-hood (is there such a word) and how the cessation of prophecy might've been less a divinely influenced conclusion than a response to the rise of Christianity.