Is Prophecy dead?

[9Harmony]

Dear Friends,

As a Baha'i I am forbidden from proselytizing. So I am feeling rather distraught that it seems to some that that is what I was doing.
I guess it depends on your definition of proselytizing. I've learned the Baha'i definition is ... "Proselytizing implies bringing undue pressure to bear upon someone to change his Faith. It is also usually understood to imply the making of threats or the offering of material benefits as an inducement to conversion." (Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities, 7.8)

Which I don't think I was doing, at least it was not my intent. But I understand I must respect the forum host's definition. Posting is a privilege, not a right. And I want to be deserving of that privilege. I am relatively new to online forums and the last thing I want to do is come across negatively to those reading my posts.

Susma, thankyou for coming to my defense. I greatly appreciate your perspective. Do you think the shrillness of my posts was due to my own words or the quotes I posted? (It's kinda funny, because if you knew me personally, shrill is not a word someone would use to describe me, but I guess written words are different) BTW: FYI - I am a female :-)

In my own defense I initially posted in response to Brian's question..."Is prophecy dead?" Giving a Baha'i perspective. And in response to Ben's posts on his interpretation of Daniel, I again posted a Baha'i perspective. I only wanted to represent the train of thought that if prophecy has been fulfilled, it may seem to be dead. And extended an invitation to investigate Baha'u'llah's claim (I think that is where the idea of proselytizing comes into play), i maybe naively thought people would accept the invitation if interested. And in this world of online communication individuals have the option of skipping past what they aren't interested in. But I understand that I have to take into consideration my audience.

I thank you all for helping to educate me in proper and acceptable forum etticut. I appreciate your kind words and I promise to take them to heart.

Brian, it would be so wonderful to have a separate Baha'i board here. Thank you so much for considering it. And I agree it would be beneficial in the long run in being able to avoid circumstances such as I find myself in now.

Thanks again!

Loving Greetings, Harmony

[Vajradhara]

Namaste harmony,


thank you for your posts.

i do have a question for you, however, concerning this bit that you wrote:

"The Baha'i Faith makes the assertion that prophecies of all of the worlds great religions have been fulfilled with the coming of the Bab (the Gate) and Baha'u'llah (the Glory of God)."

now... does this mean to indicate all prophecies of the world religions has been fulfilled or just some of them?

if it means all of them, can you explain how you reconcile the prophecy concerning Maitreya and the loss of the Dharma with this teaching?

i've spoken with several of the Baha'i members on this forum regarding the Baha'i understanding of Buddha and his teachings. we'll have to agree to disagree on this aspect of the whole thing.. which is why i'm interested in the narrow disucssion of the prophecy fulfillment.

[I, Brian]

Perhaps that question is one for the new forum, Vaj? Maybe I should look to split this thread into distinct new threads there if you get any replies.


9Harmony -

I personally found some of Susma's words towards you a little harsh and don't at all believe you were "shrill". Susma Rio Sep, please be more mindful of the feelings of others when you comment directly on them, please.

As for proselytising - the usual reference in British English doesn't relate to seeking to use aggression or threats, merely the intent to convert.

I have some honest questions of my own about Bahai - and other faiths represented here - so I will personally find it more liberating to create Faith-specific boards where Faith-specific questions and issues can far more openly be addressed.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Perhaps that question is one for the new forum, Vaj? Maybe I should look to split this thread into distinct new threads there if you get any replies.


9Harmony -

I personally found some of Susma's words towards you a little harsh and don't at all believe you were "shrill". Susma Rio Sep, please be more mindful of the feelings of others when you comment directly on them, please.

As for proselytising - the usual reference in British English doesn't relate to seeking to use aggression or threats, merely the intent to convert.

I have some honest questions of my own about Bahai - and other faiths represented here - so I will personally find it more liberating to create Faith-specific boards where Faith-specific questions and issues can far more openly be addressed.

Thanks, Brian, for the reminder. May I just say something about my special talent?

Namely, I should be writing a book on "How to make enemies and antagonize people". Hehehe.

Again, thanks, Brian. And I am working on your advisory, to not sound harsh to fellow posters here.

Susma Rio Sep

[Susma Rio Sep]

Harmony writes:

Susma, thankyou for coming to my defense. I greatly appreciate your perspective. Do you think the shrillness of my posts was due to my own words or the quotes I posted? (It's kinda funny, because if you knew me personally, shrill is not a word someone would use to describe me, but I guess written words are different) BTW: FYI - I am a female :-)

Dear good Harmony, please don't take my vocabulary very literally. I shouldn't have used that word 'shrill'. Let me change that word to 'warm'.

Glad to know that you are female. My wife, my daughter, my sisters, my mother, my aunts, my grandmothers, they are all women. I love all women. Why? Because they are the mother of mankind. Live there any man or human not born of woman and raised by women?

Susma Rio Sep

[9Harmony]

Thanks Vaj,

Unfortunately I am not as well versed in Buddhism as I would like to be, but while we wait for Brian to set up the new boards, I will research this topic and post my response over there.

Brian,

I am looking forward to answering any questions you may have. Let me know when you get it set up.
As for Susma, he didn't hurt my feelings. I have gained some insights from his perception of my posts and I strive to become a better person in all areas of my life including in the online arena. I try to learn something from every experience and I have learned alot here.
As for proselytizing = trying to convert. In my limited view I am incapable of converting anyone. I was simply trying to offer information that people may be unaware of and inviting them to investigate for themselves. I hope that didn't come across as trying to convert. I'm learning how to be more balanced in my approach of what I hope will be considered as simply sharing in a loving way, I realize I have a long way to go to achieve that goal.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Harmony writes:
Dear good Harmony, please don't take my vocabulary very literally. I shouldn't have used that word 'shrill'. Let me change that word to 'warm'.
Susma Rio Sep

Dear Susma,

How kind! but I want to assure you that nothing you said hurt my feelings. I actually learned alot from your input. It is helpful to realize how others perceive me through my posts and now I have some insights into what I need to do better. I want nothing more than to be a good representative of my Faith and if I am perceived as not, that is only a reflection on me.

Have a great day!

Loving Greetings, Harmony

P.S. Actually the fact that you used the word 'shrill' is interesting to me, that's why I asked if you were referring to my words or the quotes. Because Baha'u'llah used that word numerous times when He referred to His Revelation. For example... "At this moment the shrill voice of the Most Sublime Pen hath been raised" Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p 92 and "Hear ye not the shrill voice of My Most Exalted Pen?" Kitab-i-Aqdas, p 34
Interesting, no?

[El Greko]

Bananas is spot on..........Israel was never even taken away from the Jews by G+d only man. It is was and will be the promised land to the seed of Abraham, as G+d cannot break his promises and I believe only once had changed His mind on a matter, could somebody put me on the right path on this latter matter.

Wasn't he 'persuaded' against destroying Jonah's destination city Nineveh?

Is there any other time the G+d changed his mind, impossible though it sounds, because as He knows the beginnning from the end, it must be impossible to change His mind because He knows the right outcome of His action?

Or do all things work for good for those that love G+d, meaning that we have to power to turn bad things that we follow, if we truly repent, to good, like when David sinned with Bathsheba but was still beloved by G+d

Just going back to Bananas pro Israel stance, you Christians out there are crazy if you really think you are now the chosen people, and that G+ds covenant with the Hebrews ended some time some place, no no no, on this He cannot change his mind, a promise is a promise, can a rainbow be broken?

Help!!!!!

[Phi]

Is Prophecy Dead?

Well let me just say that if a wonderfully sane and upright man or woman, who was in the Holy Spirit like the prophets of old were to say:
"I went out unto the wilderness and for forty days I ate not. And the voice of God came unto me and bade me tell my people..."

Of course in order to follow the command given, were the message more urgent than a book-publisher's time frame, the prophet would need to break into a TV studio or radio station to "tell my people."

He/she would be locked up, or at the very least a kind social worker might lead him/her to a "Behavioral-health center," where drugs would be pumped into the prophet in order to help the prophet "recover" from his mental derangement.

So my answer to the question above is, yes, in the Western culture, it's pretty much dead. Because we ourselves try to kill it wherever we find it.

[Iacchus]

Prophecy, when it appears, usually appears in ways we least expect it.

[I, Brian]

And that would mean...?

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

And that would mean...?

In the sense that people tend to establish a routine and are not looking for anything like this to happen, to say the least. While here's an idea about the end of times and the Book of Revelation which, most people have no idea that it even occurred ...

[arielmessenger]

Originally Posted by Phi

Is Prophecy Dead?

Well let me just say that if a wonderfully sane and upright man or woman, who was in the Holy Spirit like the prophets of old were to say:
"I went out unto the wilderness and for forty days I ate not. And the voice of God came unto me and bade me tell my people..."

Of course in order to follow the command given, were the message more urgent than a book-publisher's time frame, the prophet would need to break into a TV studio or radio station to "tell my people."

He/she would be locked up, or at the very least a kind social worker might lead him/her to a "Behavioral-health center," where drugs would be pumped into the prophet in order to help the prophet "recover" from his mental derangement.

So my answer to the question above is, yes, in the Western culture, it's pretty much dead. Because we ourselves try to kill it wherever we find it.

You will see for yourselves how modern religious people treat a modern prophet. From ridicule to hostility to curiousity but never spontaneous recognition. In our secular times the prophet must produce evidence of spiritual power as people in the West especially have been educated to disbelieve spiritual gifts. What God has done is to institute an ongoing religious debate wherein the believers of differing faiths are challenging one another for recognition of their own spiritual paths as the best ones available. The Internet Arena is operating now and through this process eventually every major religion will be forced to defend their belief systems which in turn will force the abandonment of religious belief systems that are based on religious frauds of various kinds, e.g, the fraudulent claims of "Moses" as the writer of the Torah, e.g. the fraudulent claims of Pauline Christians for the miraculous stories of Jesus, e.g. the inanity of Muslims believing their holy book is somehow without flaws when right off the bat Mohammad made the same mistake as Pauline Christians and Jews before him, of idolizing and taking as real people, mythical men and mythical events.

Only a greatly purified Abrahamic religion can continue the Holy Land spiritual traditions and God has provided such with Biomystical Christianity whose prophet bears the Spirit of Elijah, not in name only but in actions that continue the prophet's work of "making straight the path of God", that continue the fiery condemnation of Elijah towards all spiritual paths that do not lead to the Holy One of Heaven & Earth, that continue the spiritual association of the Jordan river, and that fulfill the prophesy bearers role of announcing the Return of the Spirit of Christ. All this can be reviewed and judged for yourselves by going to [link removed] and then to Book I, Biomystical Christianity, a revolutionary new holistic religious understanding that serves as a model for understanding how God is slowly evolving humankind towards becoming one with Itself.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by arielmessenger

You will see for yourselves how modern religious people treat a modern prophet. From ridicule to hostility to curiousity but never spontaneous recognition. In our secular times the prophet must produce evidence of spiritual power as people in the West especially have been educated to disbelieve spiritual gifts.

People expect those with great claims to therefore justify them through action - otherwise the words themselves are meaningless.

As for claiming to be a modern prophet - there is already an extra-ordinarily long list of people making such claims about themselves. We'll add you to the list, I guess.

[Pet Zepi]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

There's a general perception in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, that prophecy is effectively dead - that all that required saying is said.

However, is this an interpretation supported directly by scripture - or is this a general assertion from events and human developments?

Does humanity no longer have a direct connection to God, excepting through the pages of books?

A general discussion question.

Prophecy isn't dead. Religion is.