Is "Lucifer" or "The Devil" or "Satan" a "Euro-centric male"?

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Having been raised in America, every image that was presented to me as "Lucifer" or "The Devil" or "Satan" and for that matter (Demons) have been of "Euro-centric males" with long hair, horns,wings, red skin, horse legs and Euro-centric facial features.


If I were to come from a place that knew nothing of "Lucifer" or "The Devil" or "Satan" or any other demonic creature, Would it be "ok" to present this image as Euro-centric, Asian, or any other race?


My question: Is "Lucifer" or "The Devil" or "Satan" a "Euro-centric male" with long hair, horns, wings, red skin, horse legs and Euro-centric facial features.


Any thoughts?

[InLove]

Haha! YO, I was wondering when you would get around to asking! Looking forward to the responses.

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Originally Posted by InLove

Haha! YO, I was wondering when you would get around to asking! Looking forward to the responses.

[jiii]

Well, perhaps so. I mean, Christianity really took off in Europe centuries and centuries ago, so it wouldn't be all that strange if his facial features would suggest men such as those most common in Europe at the time, and that such a model would be kept for quite a while. LOL...I can only picture some official Christian organization holding a panel complete with sketch artists to redesign Satan...you know, give him a new, modern look

Furthermore, Satan's demonic look is largely inherited from even older renditions of Pagan images, especially that of Pan. These, too, were images designed by Europeans. Christianity didn't take too well to Paganism, so in many cases, they adopted Pagan symbolism to portray evil things.

So, in a sense, the 'euro-look' for the classic image of Satan has been around for probably three-thousand years or so.

-jiii

[cavalier]

What about a woman devil? Bedazzled was just on HBO, Liz Hurley has got to be the hottest devil ever.


Also just found this picture entitled Devil Biatch, which may or may not add something to the discussion.

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Originally Posted by cavalier

What about a woman devil? Bedazzled was just on HBO, Liz Hurley has got to be the hottest devil ever. Also just found this picture entitled Devil Biatch, which may or may not add something to the discussion.

LoL @ cavalier

I saw Bedazzled too.. That was a good movie....

Yes, it adds to the topic nicely..

[wil]

Originally Posted by YO-ELEVEN-11

Is "Lucifer" or "The Devil" or "Satan" a "Euro-centric male" with long hair, horns, wings, red skin, horse legs and Euro-centric facial features.

The devil is whatever you make it out to be in your eyes, your mind, your reality. Some feel the US or Bush is the devil, others the UN or World Bank, others put evil in other countries, other religions, other individuals.

Screwtape, now that is one of my favorite devil images, not the drawings but the letters.

I don't subscribe to any critter out there doing damage....but internal doubt, fear, thoughts I need to personally overcome.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Yo-eleven!

Seems I seldom get around to conversing with you, which is my loss.

Originally Posted by YO-ELEVEN-11

My question: Is "Lucifer" or "The Devil" or "Satan" a "Euro-centric male" with long hair, horns, wings, red skin, horse legs and Euro-centric facial features.

Any thoughts?

Lots of thoughts, actually. Around here somewhere, buried deep and probably forgotten, are some theads discussing this. This "modern" rendition of the devil you've described dates to the time of Dante Alleghieri (forgive my spelling) and his parody "The Inferno." JIII hit on some points regarding the borrowing of pagan symbols to represent Christian "evil." There are threads here too that connect some of those symbols, such as pan, the harlequin, the fool, the Greene Knight, and Santa Claus, back to an ancient pagan mythos of the "Wild Man." Now, the Wild Man is not limited to Europe, "he" is recognized globally in the northern lattitudes among the Ainu as well as the Lapps (it is interesting I have not heard association with the Bushmen). There is also reference somewhere that I stumbled on that even Neandertals recognized the Wild Man tradition. The tradition presumably dates back some 60 thousand years or more. That's how far Santa Claus' family tree can be traced back. And the devil is mythologically the flip side alter ego of Santa Claus, at least in primordial subconscious symbolism.

Interestingly, to me anyway, is the Jewish perception of the devil. He is more an adversary, a prosecuting attorney so to speak.

As for myself, I view the "embodiment" of evil more like a black hole, an eternal separateness from which there is no return. Just my humble opinion.

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by wil

Screwtape, now that is one of my favorite devil images, not the drawings but the letters.

Oh yeah, the Screwtape Letters! Three thumbs up!!!

[juantoo3]

Gawain and the Greene Knight

The Horned One

Santa Theory
particularly post 31, 38 and 43

What is the meaning of 'Hell'
interesting discussion of hell

Debunking "the devil"...
very good thread, my post 35 tells about Dante

Hope this helps

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Gawain and the Greene Knight

The Horned One

Santa Theory
particularly post 31, 38 and 43

What is the meaning of 'Hell'
interesting discussion of hell

Debunking "the devil"...
very good thread, my post 35 tells about Dante

Hope this helps

Hi juanto, I see you have really done your homework on this one.
I will check out the threads and screwtape. This is my first time hearing of screwtape. Is it a book? Where can I get a copy of it?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, jiii!

Originally Posted by jiii

Christianity didn't take too well to Paganism, so in many cases, they adopted Pagan symbolism to portray evil things.-jiii

Overall, I am in general agreement with what you posted. If I may add a little here...

Christianity has always been in direct competition (for the hearts, minds, "souls" and political power base) with Paganism. That's just the way the history of Christianity has unfolded, starting at Rome and especially through the Christianization of Europe under Charlemagne (Creating the Holy Roman Empire, which was effectively Europe). Of course, there have been sidebars such as the Inquisition disguised as rooting out Pagans when they seem to have actually been a tool to exert political authority (far more Christians were executed). In actual practice, paganism has always been unofficially tolerated in the more rural areas in Europe (else why does it still exist?) In point of fact, most "conversions" to Christianity during Charlemagne's campaigns were superficial at best: a priest stood upstream and blessed the waters of a stream, and those "subjects" to be converted were herded through the stream. Viola! Instant baptism into Christianity! Most of these "converts" went back home and continued doing what they always had been doing. As long as they paid their taxes and didn't create any trouble or unrest or challenge the authority, they were left alone to do as they pleased. Where it was distinctly *not* safe to be Pagan, was in the major cities and centers of political power. Paganism was always a nature oriented religion (by my understanding), so it has always been "at home" in the rural farming districts. Christianity, as the tool of the political machine, was the safe bet in the centers of power, yet even then it clearly became a matter of "this" Christian (political power) versus "that" Christian (political power). In the space of 500 years or so, Christianity had pretty well imploded on itself, and the Protestant Reformation pretty well set the stage to salvage any semblance of virtue left in the institution and wrest the power away from Rome. Since then it has been pretty much a two-party system, speaking in terms of religious institutions, and now it seems there are greater efforts to cooperate rather than compete. Especially with Paganism, never truly gone and currently experiencing a huge groundswell (largely from those dissatisfied and disaffected with Christianity). In many places and many ways, it is now fashionable and in vogue to be Pagan, whereas it seems increasingly passe to be a card carrying Christian. I wonder what influence that would have on the perception of and personification of the devil?

(BTW, I am very aware that "Pagan" does not equal "devil worship," and I in absolutely no way wish to seem to imply such)

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by YO-ELEVEN-11

Hi juanto, I see you have really done your homework on this one.
I will check out the threads and screwtape. This is my first time hearing of screwtape. Is it a book? Where can I get a copy of it?

Yes, The Screwtape Letters is a book by C.S. Lewis, the same guy who brought us the Chronicles of Narnia. It should be available at most any good book store, and every Christian book store I have been in has a C.S. Lewis section. It is considered a classic, so it should be quite easy to find a copy.

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Yes, The Screwtape Letters is a book by C.S. Lewis, the same guy who brought us the Chronicles of Narnia. It should be available at most any good book store, and every Christian book store I have been in has a C.S. Lewis section. It is considered a classic, so it should be quite easy to find a copy.

Going to get a copy soon.