Is it ok to follow any religion?

[dauer]

Just a note:

I never said we should see the end of most religions. I think religion and myth offer us lots of color. I simply see experience as the basis of human reality. That doesn't mean I think everything else should be disregarded, just not taken as objective truth. It's already a coloring of the experience, which is beyond words. And also, because I think you're putting me in the wrong box, I love myth, and I love using myth, and thinking in myth, and thinking in terms of theology. I talk to God regularly. I just don't think that any of that is objective truth. I don't necessarily know that God exists, but I do have an experience or grouping of experiences from which I work my way out to the position of being able to address a God I don't necessariliy believe in. I value the experience of personal-God interaction and impersonal-God interaction.

Dauer

[_Z_]

Hi china cat sunflower.



Yes I find universal concepts in all manner of things, as like you – I just don’t see the necessity to box it all up and stick a label on it. You are right about Jesus, he was a great philosopher imho, his death is of little consequence, he was a human like us, and a vehicle for a vision. Whilst he was important, so to was the Buddha, Mohammed etc. I learn from all and none equally.



Yes Christians stole all of our festivals and built churches over our temples, and tried to destroy the culture, yet it is more universal to have let us be, but added to the old religions. Perhaps it was a necessary phase in the universalisation of humanity, similar to wars in the mixing of peoples, history appears to be like a blender!

I am of Celtic, Norse, English, gypsy & Greek decent. One day we will all just be worldish eh! Hopefully with no religion whatsoever. Yes I think any ideas of race are gone, I don’t think anyone has a specific racial pedigree or even if this was ever possible.

But the up side is that by embracing the future and the unknown instead of moving toward the past and the already known, I gain abilities and insights that aren't available otherwise

Exactly! There is much left to discover, once we leave the herds behind.

btw, Are you male or female? [always handy to add these things to one's profile - just so we know at least a little about each other]


Dauer, hi.


Yes absolutely - there certainly is much colour to consider in the worlds religions and philosophies. The thing with experience is; what if ones experience of reality has an extra dimension to another’s or is just different. I have experienced the void [infinity] thus I base my ideas on the universal interactions in existence – I think of this as an everyday part of existence. But this just leaves us at phenomenon noumenon arguments that are irresolvable. I also think that the inclusion of infinity as actual, in our universal philosophy brings us to some interesting notions about reality, and they just so happen to make sense! I talk to nature, god and spirit most of the time, as you say it is just the mind using scenarios to understand things, and gods are just personas [as objects] or avatars in this. However when I ask questions in my meditations, the answers arrive in my mind some time later, and I do think there is something else – a third party – going on in this, I think of it as interactions in the universal mind/spirit and that this is real both in our minds and as a nature of reality. I do see where you are coming from, and use a practical line of thought in a duel view.

Thanks for replies – and the parallel view!



Z

[Quahom1]

From observing the world today and reviewing the history of it, I find it ironic and imperitive that one choose to follow something. This creates difference in thought, and a constant enlightenment for eachother by eachother. The diverseness offers us stimulation, and makes us think. That is what is so important about various religions.

I also note the irony of not choosing a religion. Given enough people in one area who choose not to choose, the state has a tendency to choose for one...often without one realizing it. Having a variety of religions by a variety of people within an area tends to keep the state at bay, and contained/restrained...

v/r

Q

[_Z_]

Quahom1, hi.



Perhaps more diversity is created through individualised philosophy than organised religion, most of which discourage difference. Also one can just pick up a bible [e.g.] and read it, we don’t need interpreters anymore – they are in English. I do get your point though, as much would be lost if we had never arrived at the various religions, and they do add ingredients to the mix. All I would say is that they be viewed as philosophical, and except that they are sometimes wrong.



Interesting parodox you pointed out there!



There is another level to this thread, that I do wonder if people can be led down dark paths without realising it – being given false information. This is why the church has sought to find authority via doctrine.





Z

[dauer]

Z,

your experience is not necessarily of infinite matter, nor of infinite time, for that matter. Simply, it is an experience of infinity, whatever that means. Even to label it as such is to attach a subtle theology. To attach this to space or time is to bring it to the level of theology, which is fine, but it means you're going beyond the level of experience.

Dauer

[_Z_]

Dauer,



Yes it would certainly 'infer' theology, I don’t see the difference in one nature of existence to the next due to its dimension i.e. being of finite or infinite nature, it can still be experienced. I would say we all experience it all the time its just that zero doesn’t mean much to the brain as it concentrates on everyday tasks – the more subtle a nature of reality is, then the more it is not noticed!

then the more universal ones expansivity of mind, then the more of it we see. [just teasin' ]

Z

[wil]

I should have said nothing...the QM thought was right and the sniping was kept to a minimum to date...

For gosh sakes we all know if you are an ardent follower of any religion (read cult) you know that all others are infidels, goy, sacreligious, wrong, daft (since they can't see the 'truth' when it is right in front of their eyes) and going to hell or some other dire consequence..

There was a sect/cult discussion from the dictionary

cult (klt) n.

1. 1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
   2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5. 1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
   2. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

Notice we have to get to the fifth reference before we get to a definition that doesn't imply any of the 'major' religions.

I am of Celtic, Norse, English, gypsy & Greek decent. One day we will all just be worldish eh! Hopefully with no religion whatsoever. Yes I think any ideas of race are gone, I don’t think anyone has a specific racial pedigree or even if this was ever possible.

Sounds to me you could be descended from a number of the 10 lost tribes...

I must now answer "YES" I think it is ok and admirable and wonderful if you were to follow 'any religion' (in the context as you asked it). If 100% of the world followed, not contorted, but followed a religious belief, I actually think wars and governmental requirements on mankind would be reduced...now if we continue to dig out crap that creates battles between classes, rich and poor, white and black, muslims and christians, this side of the mountain and that.. rubbish the whole thing.

how about that love your neighbor and enemy hype? How about those 10 commandments? I'm to pull other quotes from various religions but you know what I'm getting at...

Praise Allah, Shalom, Aleluiah, Om, Namaste, and Blessings on all you family!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

I should have said nothing...the QM thought was right and the sniping was kept to a minimum to date...

For gosh sakes we all know if you are an ardent follower of any religion (read cult) you know that all others are infidels, goy, sacreligious, wrong, daft (since they can't see the 'truth' when it is right in front of their eyes) and going to hell or some other dire consequence..

There was a sect/cult discussion from the dictionary

cult (klt) n.

1. 1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
   2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5. 
   
   1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
   2. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

Notice we have to get to the fifth reference before we get to a definition that doesn't imply any of the 'major' religions. Sounds to me you could be descended from a number of the 10 lost tribes...


I must now answer "YES" I think it is ok and admirable and wonderful if you were to follow 'any religion' (in the context as you asked it). If 100% of the world followed, not contorted, but followed a religious belief, I actually think wars and governmental requirements on mankind would be reduced...now if we continue to dig out crap that creates battles between classes, rich and poor, white and black, muslims and christians, this side of the mountain and that.. rubbish the whole thing.

how about that love your neighbor and enemy hype? How about those 10 commandments? I'm to pull other quotes from various religions but you know what I'm getting at...

Praise Allah, Shalom, Aleluiah, Om, Namaste, and Blessings on all you family!

Looks like the only one losing it is...not us. And we stayed more or less on track with the original thought. I don't know about you, but I consider no one an infidel, just because they dance to a different drum beat than me. Maybe we are from the lost tribes...you have a better answer? (STIC).

No, we don't know what you are getting at. Love neighbor and Love God are pretty good rules to stick by.

Oh, and blessings on your family as well.

v/r

Q

[China Cat Sunflower]

Rich,

btw, Are you male or female? [always handy to add these things to one's profile - just so we know at least a little about each other]

I'm a man. I'm married with two little girls. I'm a carpenter, and I live near Phoenix, Arizona in the USA.

Chris

[_Z_]

China cat sunflower,



Hi, I am a married man too, with three kids, one daughter - bronwyn [beautiful of course] and two twin boys. I live near oxford England.

Z

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Bandit,



The opposite happening? Everyone not following Christianity and Christ! Hmm perhaps then you mean that the path/religion would not be needed as you are there! Or do you think it will fade into the wind with everything else!

fade in the wind like everything else, tho i believe Jesus & the bible will stay alive in the hearts of some. -could be wrong here- i see a merge/compromise of religion(s) coming.

Originally Posted by _Z_

I agree a universal religion would not be superior [I am of course half jesting I am sure you know {the vanity is in the apparency – not the reality}], but you cannot have a universal religion – that’s the whole point! You just have people like many of us here who are a little looser.

Originally Posted by _Z_

Ha yes, there’s no path to follow anyway.




Z

i see a universal religion becoming very popular- i just dont see it lasting very long before the divisions & hootchie kootchie start.
i dont feel like i belong to any religion. when you get down to the nitty gritty of the bible (the 'ty' in christian, does not work real well for me)
i am most definately rejected by most of the denominations- so I really dont care about that.

but if you are holding something real loose, is not that like never buidling a foundation? & just blowing with any storm that comes along?

why do you say there is no path to follow? or is that just in general thinking from not joining an organized religion?

[wil]

No, we don't know what you are getting at. Love neighbor and Love God are pretty good rules to stick by.

I apoligize, it is only I that runs into people or reads posts that claim others are going to hell because they haven't sworn allegiance to this faith or that...

I've got to work on getting my unenlightened eyes to read betwixt the lines.

[_Z_]

Bandit, hi.



Yep, all things must change, yet some things never change! Like infinity, zero and universal spirit. So I would agree that Christianity, and all other religions shall probably merge [at least in some philosophical sense – remaining individual too] or fade, but there will always be the bible etc, [and Christ] as there is always ‘the book with no name’. i hope they all stay though - just in a more excepting and open way!

I think a universal philosophy [or at least a skeleton philosophy], would be better than a universal religion! In fact that is the whole point of it being universal – it incorporates all [even if in opposition to one another], only taking minimal individualism away – as there must be both.

Can one not have a universal foundation? Perhaps to all religions [not that they would except such a thing – but that would be irrelevant to the underlying philosophy].



The way I see it, if there is spirit then its interactions with the physical world are findable. There is a philosophical understanding of it somewhere out there:

If we don’t draw lines then where does spirit end? Do only humans have it? I don’t think so! For me animals have spirit – where then is the line? Then I would say vegetation and keep going until we arrive at single celled life-forms, from there I would go all the way to atoms then on down to the very quantum fabric of existence – there too we find spirit!



Respect



Z

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Bandit, hi.



Yep, all things must change, yet some things never change! Like infinity, zero and universal spirit. So I would agree that Christianity, and all other religions shall probably merge [at least in some philosophical sense – remaining individual too] or fade, but there will always be the bible etc, [and Christ] as there is always ‘the book with no name’. i hope they all stay though - just in a more excepting and open way!

I think a universal philosophy [or at least a skeleton philosophy], would be better than a universal religion! In fact that is the whole point of it being universal – it incorporates all [even if in opposition to one another], only taking minimal individualism away – as there must be both.

Can one not have a universal foundation? Perhaps to all religions [not that they would except such a thing – but that would be irrelevant to the underlying philosophy].

yah. philosophy could be universal easier than religion as long as everyone is seeing it as philosophy & not part of their religion. it allows room for missing data & answers to be resolved. i have seemed to maintain my individual beliefs in the bible while getting along with most Christians & those with other beliefs, because i dont make written dogma & i dont tell HOW i reach the same or similiar conclusions but have different reasons for why & how. well, i do on rare occasion, but i have to know the person very well first.

i wonder what the book with no name is? the book of life or something?

Originally Posted by _Z_

The way I see it, if there is spirit then its interactions with the physical world are findable. There is a philosophical understanding of it somewhere out there:

Originally Posted by _Z_

If we don’t draw lines then where does spirit end? Do only humans have it? I don’t think so! For me animals have spirit – where then is the line? Then I would say vegetation and keep going until we arrive at single celled life-forms, from there I would go all the way to atoms then on down to the very quantum fabric of existence – there too we find spirit!



Respect



Z

i dont think the spirit ever ends, except maybe if God wants a spirit to end.
i think this is where we share some common ground in druidry & spirit is connected to the physical, though temporarily, at least while the flesh is alive. even after one person or animal dies, i have found there is still a connection! i dont know how, but there is.

i have a hard time leaving a tropical plant out in its pot for the winter, but i just dont have room for them all.
Respect to you also.

[rdwillia]

Hello,

Just found this thread, don't know how I missed it. Great ideas by the way...

Although I largely agree about the positive qualities of having a 'universal foundation', I can also see the benefit of settling down with one group. It would seem to me that if I were only (ha!) looking at everything, I'd be constantly searching for something. Constantly searching doesn't allow much time for one to practice something. That's a large part of the reasoning behind my 'settling down'. I was frantically searching and didn't get a chance to relax and reflect. I didn't know where I stood on anything. There is something to be said about 'settling down', although it's not for everyone. Some people are much better at balancing universal ideals than I. But this way, I have one teacher, one place to go to speak with like-minded people who are following the same path, one set of goals, etc. Yet I have my 'universal foundation' to fall back on so that I'm not 'brainwashed' by the 'cults'.

Actually, I saw a trend of conformity so I thought I'd mix things up a bit.

Quahom1 and wil...

Originally Posted by wil

For gosh sakes we all know if you are an ardent follower of any religion (read cult) you know that all others are infidels, goy, sacrilegious, wrong, daft (since they can't see the 'truth' when it is right in front of their eyes) and going to hell or some other dire consequence..

Will you please kiss and make up? I despise fighting, it's such a waste of time. Quahom, from my understanding, I think you might have misunderstood wil a bit. I could be wrong. Wil, I gather that you were being a little sarcastic and a little more cynical, you have to realize people aren't going to react well to this. You've always seemed to have such a calming presence. Also, please understand that the majority don't feel this way, especially on these forums? I think perhaps you've had a run of bad luck recently? It can get heated but we generally work it out fine. Can't we all just get along? Take care.