Is it cool to beat your wife?

[Friend]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

I do not understand, and this is my fault I am sure.

I am under the impression that the Quran is the indisputable word of God, could someone confirm or dedy this please.

If this is so, then how can we take what is said in any context other than our own lives. Surely God would not leave his holy word in such a way that it can only be understood if the reader has a firm grasp of Arabian cultural history.

I am not attacking anyone here, please, I want to understand.

Hi
Awaiting_the_fifth
Yes Quran is the indisputable word of God ... no one can add or delete even letter , the new technology prove this , there are a computer program explain that Quraan words and verses and chapters have a numerical arrangement .so whom can did that before around 1400 years ago ?

As Quraan is a Words of Allah so we must ( As Muslim and believers ) accept them without any doubt ... Allah create people (Adam & Eve) and he know the psychological building of each one of them .. women are so sensitive being ..she may take peppery decisions which may damage her life and her family ... Man should take the responsibility to save his family and his wife .
Quraan told man to treat his wife in a good way but if their are any problem he must follow steps to solve this problem .. the final one to beat her as the baby not to harm her .

Quraan words are very simple if you can have a translation of Quraan ...you can have a translation of interpretation of his words ... because some verses send in certain occasion .so we must refer to the conditions and the occasion of these verses to understand it .

Hope this can help ...

[mansio]

The Quran is supposed to have been revealed by God in clear, comprehensible Arabic, which I believe is not difficult to translate in other languages.
How come men have to discuss at length some words from God ?
Is there something in those words that they accept only reluctantly ? Isn't God's word sufficient, without having to resort to the Prophet or to Muslim scholars' opinions ?
What is written in the Quran is from God and no human being can take His place. If God thinks the word "beat" has to be in the verse then nobody is entitled to modify that word.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mansio

The Quran is supposed to have been revealed by God in clear, comprehensible Arabic, which I believe is not difficult to translate in other languages.
How come men have to discuss at length some words from God ?
Is there something in those words that they accept only reluctantly ? Isn't God's word sufficient, without having to resort to the Prophet or to Muslim scholars' opinions ?
What is written in the Quran is from God and no human being can take His place. If God thinks the word "beat" has to be in the verse then nobody is entitled to modify that word.

If God Himself penned the words, I would not argue with you on your point. But God did not pen the words, man did, and stated that they were inspired by God (which I do not doubt for a second). However, Man has the uncanny knack of interjecting His own thoughts, wishes, desires, and in this case, hidden rage, into verbage, and then call it God sent revelation.

If I recall, when man left the garden, he was told all that would befall him. Nowhere did it say that woman would be beaten by man. Oh, she would suffer pain (labors of child birth), and he would toil in the soil for his daily sustanence, and they would cling to eachother for comfort.

It specifically states that man will rule over woman, and she will desire after man.

If you equate "rule over" with "beating"...then I suspect there is a deeper issue.

God never said "take the rod to the back of the woman". He did say, "spare the rod, spoil the "Child".

"Beating" a woman, does not neccessarily have to be physical, either. It can be psychological, verbal, emotional, or a combination of all...but for what? To break her spirit, her will? Is she no more than a horse?

Even if she is no more than a horse, then I submit to you that attempting to break a woman, is to sign one's own death certificate. For a "horse" broken in will and spirit does not come to the "masters" aid, when in dire need. The horse will simply stand there, while the master suffers.

A "horse" with strong spirit and "tamed" will, on the other hand, will defend the master, willingly with it's life if needed, and with no regrets, or hesitation.

That is a horse...Woman is so much more than a horse, or a man...

She is life, and man is the servant of life, not the master of it...

Hated and held in contempt is the man who beats his wife. Adored is the man who rebukes and corrects the actions of his wife, with firmness yet the tenderness born of love for her.

That is what Mohammed's message was to us men. I get it, and I'm not Muslim...

Guess you are right. Anyone can understand the Qu'ran, if they really want to.

v/r

Q

p.s. thanks "dialogue is best", I now understand what you were trying to tell me.

[17th Angel]

No it isn't cool to "beat" on anyone... But self defense is acceptable in my mind... Example. If a woman attacks me or hits me I wouldn't care that she was a female she will have to deal with the reaction she will receive. But if I was just upset or angry or whatever I wouldn't lash out at a woman. Especially my wife.... But there needs to be a limit. Women obviously wanted equal rights (power to them, they should have.) But they tend to think when it comes to physical violence they are above equal...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

No it isn't cool to "beat" on anyone... But self defense is acceptable in my mind... Example. If a woman attacks me or hits me I wouldn't care that she was a female she will have to deal with the reaction she will receive. But if I was just upset or angry or whatever I wouldn't lash out at a woman. Especially my wife.... But there needs to be a limit. Women obviously wanted equal rights (power to them, they should have.) But they tend to think when it comes to physical violence they are above equal...

Hey soldier...minimum force neccessary to neutralize a "situation"...

[Ciel]

Is it cool to beat your wife?

Is it cool this question is even considered on this board?

- c -

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Is it cool to beat your wife?

Is it cool this question is even considered on this board?

- c -

Considering that this board is world wide, and not everyone believes as the west allegedly does, I believe this is a valid question.

[wil]

Would it be different if it were titled what methods of discipline are allowable based on your scripture and theology?

Q, makes some interesting points (post #17) how times have changed in the US, and how this was not uncommon not so very long ago. I always marvel how when we advance socially in only one or two generations we expect the world to be on the same field as us, despite the fact that they don't have the social or econmic forces in place which allowed our 'enlightenment' to occur.

I also remember neigbors and friends enforcing rules of decorum in absence of parents. And when they told my parents what I did, or what I was perceived to have done, and what they did in response...it was basically gratitude, and keep up the good work. I learned early on, that if I was reprimanded verbally or physically by another adult not to report it to my parents as the punishment was likely to be continued....it was a different day and time, I look back and don't consider any of what I recieved as child abuse, however today it would have been lawsuits.

I was shot in the backside with rock salt from a shot gun, back handed hard enough to receive a black eye, swollen jaw and flip backwards over a bed and up against the wall, received welts from the hickory stick, wooden spoon, spatula, belt, spankin stick the principle at school had... I gotta admit, I feel I deserved all of it at the time...I knew the potential reprecussions and went ahead and did the damage anyway. When I was a kid your parents had to sign a paper taking the right of corporal punishment AWAY from the public school. Granted I look at all of it now as a parent in the year 2006 with completely different eyes...can't imagine it. Nor can I imagine beating my wife.

As for discussion, I think discussion leads to understanding. And this is appropriate for this board, it would be a problem if it were in the lounge.

[Ciel]

Q and Wil,

It's a woman's perspective, every time I see the title of this thread it sends a shudder. Any other women feel the same way?

- c -

[wil]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Q and Wil,

It's a woman's perspective, every time I see the title of this thread it sends a shudder. Any other women feel the same way?

- c -

I can absolutely understand that. Maybe if we added the words, 'at chess', or 'at tennis'. Truth is women have been opressed so long it is ridiculous and their will come a time in the not to distant future where this thought will be as far back in our memory as slavery.

I'm now contemplating all the things I'd like to see lost from our memories...intolerance, hunger, war, racism....

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by wil

I can absolutely understand that. Maybe if we added the words, 'at chess', or 'at tennis'. Truth is women have been opressed so long it is ridiculous and their will come a time in the not to distant future where this thought will be as far back in our memory as slavery.

I'm now contemplating all the things I'd like to see lost from our memories...intolerance, hunger, war, racism....

Thanks Wil..... Yes.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by wil

I can absolutely understand that. Maybe if we added the words, 'at chess', or 'at tennis'. Truth is women have been opressed so long it is ridiculous and their will come a time in the not to distant future where this thought will be as far back in our memory as slavery.

I agree, but then again, I'm not sure how far back in our memories slavery is.

Ciel, it's not just a woman's perspective. I feel that the title of this thread is horrible. It's the word "cool" that gets me, it suggests a certain light-heartedness that I find offensive.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cavalier

I agree, but then again, I'm not sure how far back in our memories slavery is.

Ciel, it's not just a woman's perspective. I feel that the title of this thread is horrible. It's the word "cool" that gets me, it suggests a certain light-heartedness that I find offensive.

Slavery can be traced back over 6000 years...

I believe the term "Cool" is jocular particularlly by certain English speaking cultures of the current day, and besides other meanings also mean "ok, or "all right" or "acceptable". I do not think the originator of this thread was being light hearted about the issue at all (based on his previous postings and the seriousness behind them).

v/r

joshua

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Slavery can be traced back over 6000 years...

Fair enough, but that's not my point. It was in reply to wil's comment that one day soon the oppression of women will be as far back in our memory as slavery. Though, and as you point out, slavery can be traced back thousands of years, it is still a big issue in the world today.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I believe the term "Cool" is jocular particularlly by certain English speaking cultures of the current day, and besides other meanings also mean "ok, or "all right" or "acceptable". I do not think the originator of this thread was being light hearted about the issue at all (based on his previous postings and the seriousness behind them).

Point taken, though I would still contest that when talking about "wife-beating" a more careful choice of words (ones which do not have so many and so varied meanings and connotations) would be appropriate.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cavalier

...Point taken, though I would still contest that when talking about "wife-beating" a more careful choice of words (ones which do not have so many and so varied meanings and connotations) would be appropriate.

Kind of like closing the barn door, after the horses have run out... over a year before, don't you think?

I opine we would not have this thread at all in a "Whalgreen" world. There would be no beatings of anykind by or on anyone. However this isn't a perfect world, and women get beat, and some think it is perfectly fine, including some women. Ciel doesn't realize that where she comes from is a small exception to a general rule if one considers the entire world at large. And the attitudes held in her current world are more or less, new. Unfortunately that is a fact of life (one I hope will change soon, for the better, for all).

v/r

Joshua