Is Islam actually peaceful?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

the athan is not a song! its a call to prayer...nota song...but leaving this matter, yes singing about other than religion, i regard and islam does as being haram!some people even say some religious songs are haram if they have a instrumental piece to them, as only simple simple drum beats can be allowed

Fine, to you it is not a song, it is a prayer and a calling. I'm not leaving a matter that you presented. To me it is song to both God and the faithful. It is a prayer and a beconning for the faithful to join in. It has melody, and rythmn, and it comes from the heart. It notifiies God that the faithful are coming to worship. It reminds the people to come and worship. It tells a story, and asks others to join in that story, or at least take note of that story...to me, it is a song.

You do not have to accept my take on this. This is simply how I perceive things. And your's is not the sole voice. So take it easy.

Unless, your intention is to keep people like me quiet...

v/r

Q

[InLove]

Hi, Peace to All Here--

With respect to all, I would like to submit that the first time (here in this existence) that I experienced a meeting with the entity many refer to as God or Allah or even the One whose name shall not be spoken was when the meeting was initiated through what I refer to as "music". It was most definitely a "call to worship".

I am tiptoeing quietly away now.

InPeace,
InLove

[Quahom1]

madam, for certain...blessed are you.

[Zaakir]

the athan has in it the fundamental values of islam.it has a meaning, it doesnt have an exact was of being said, everybody says it differently. it is recited in a tone that makes it pleasing to be heard, because it has in it the fundamental beleifs of islam and its calling people to prayer, its a very important part of the prayer.it is not a song, it is very very different from actual islamic music, and i dont see personally how it can be a song, with arabic its easier, (for me anyway) to actually recite the call in this tone, and it make sme ponder and think about the respect islam has for the ONE true god, and i cannot compare the feeling it gives me with any music or song likewise. if you think it sounds like a song, ok...but im telling you from my islamic view its not...the way that i say you beleive in three gods...but you say its one...but in 3 forms or whatever...get me?

[InLove]

Hi, and Peace--

Thank you, Q. I am blessed by reading even a heated debate, sometimes, because I learn things I did not know.

And, you know, guys--sometimes the human language is insufficient. Even the term "semantics" falls somewhat short.

InPeace,
InLove

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

the athan has in it the fundamental values of islam.it has a meaning, it doesnt have an exact was of being said, everybody says it differently. it is recited in a tone that makes it pleasing to be heard, because it has in it the fundamental beleifs of islam and its calling people to prayer, its a very important part of the prayer.it is not a song, it is very very different from actual islamic music, and i dont see personally how it can be a song, with arabic its easier, (for me anyway) to actually recite the call in this tone, and it make sme ponder and think about the respect islam has for the ONE true god, and i cannot compare the feeling it gives me with any music or song likewise. if you think it sounds like a song, ok...but im telling you from my islamic view its not...the way that i say you beleive in three gods...but you say its one...but in 3 forms or whatever...get me?

Got you. it is a song. and music is haram, yet music is despite haram, and there are no three gods. and I sense the same calling. and this is an exercise in head butting. and Inlove is trying to stop our bickering...Got me?

v/r

Q

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi, Peace to All Here--

With respect to all, I would like to submit that the first time (here in this existence) that I experienced a meeting with the entity many refer to as God or Allah or even the One whose name shall not be spoken was when the meeting was initiated through what I refer to as "music". It was most definitely a "call to worship".

I am tiptoeing quietly away now.

InPeace,
InLove

InLove:

You should be dancing away in joy. In fact we all likely sometimes resonate in response to some sort of music.

Not many know it, but there is a growing opinion that musical patterning is the underlying lattice upon which DNA and RNA is constructed. Just thought I'd throw that into the mix.

flow....

[InLove]

Well, er, umm, I have been told that David danced...

[InLove]

Hi, Peace All-

Originally Posted by InLove

Well, er, umm, I have been told that David danced...

I decided after I posted this that perhaps it wasn't the wisest or most appropriate thing to say here. I cannot get back to edit, and it has been posted for a good 10 minutes, so I figured I had better say something.

I apologize if I offended anyone by posting this here. It was certainly not my intention to do so. Mods? It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the post were removed, as long as it does not upset the logic of the conversation. Thanks.

InPeace,
InLove

[flowperson]

InLove:

Psalms means "songs" and David is purported to have written them using his harp (lyre). I wouldn't worry about offending. Chanting and singing with dance is probably the most ancient of spiritual worship forms. We didn't seem to get ourselves into trouble as societies until we tried attaching laws to all of that.

flow....

[InLove]

Originally Posted by flowperson

InLove:

Psalms means "songs" and David is purported to have written them using his harp (lyre). I wouldn't worry about offending. Chanting and singing with dance is probably the most ancient of spiritual worship forms. We didn't seem to get ourselves into trouble as societies until we tried attaching laws to all of that.

flow....

Thanks flow. It wasn't the reference to dancing I was worried about. It was the reference to David.

InPeace,
InLove

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by cavalier

There is one line in particular though, which still really troubles me. "...how many "average, common, everyday Muslims" cheered when the buildings burned in New York?" No doubt some did, along with a good number of non-muslims. How many though did not cheer? How many were appalled by what was going on? I really feel that questions like the juan asked put many innocent and peace-loving muslims in a position where they have to defend themselves against such accusations.

I agree with you. Such statements are bigoted in the least (is bigoted a better choice of words than racist?).

Now, to respond to the accusation itself, one can say with much more proof that Christians have cheered for the massacre of pagans and infidels since Roman times (they even cheered for the killing of fellow Christians because they would not accept the same creed); for the crusades; every time when the Jews were killed in the realms of Christendom; for the Inquisition; for the murder or forceful conversion of the native Americans, the black slaves, and many of the subject peoples; for the burning of witches, or hanging “colored” people from trees. They cheered for the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate. Christians cheered for the Holocaust, and again for the ruthless pogroms and dispossessions of the Palestinians to form the state of Israel so as to hasten the return of Christ (I see them dancing on TV every time Israel comes closer to the goal by killing a few Palestinians and demolishing a few buildings). Christians cheered when America toppled the government of Mosaddaq in Iran, bombed Nicaragua, and invaded Grenada. Christians celebrated when America bombed Lebanon, carpet bombed Afghanistan, and destroyed Iraq. Christians were very happy when over a million Iraqi children died from lack of food and medicine. Christians were exceedingly happy when Israel again destroyed Lebanon. They cannot help it. Christians, it seems, are required to hate everybody!

Lu:14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

I am tried of listing, but there are a great many things for which Christians should be ashamed of than Muslims. If you guys want to continue such a bigoted thread, then I recommend that we convert it to, or create a list of actual acts of violence. Let each of us make research and list a short entry for the incident, listing the date, the perpetrator, the perpetrator’s religious affiliation, and a short description. It would be nice if we could have it in a table, with one column for Christianity and one column for Islam, and then arrange them by date. But I do not know how to do that on this site, if at all possible.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by The Lord

I agree with you. Such statements are bigoted in the least (is bigoted a better choice of words than racist?).

Perhaps: Stereotype?

While the use varies today, I think bigot used to refer to the person who gets into an angry fit when someone points out a sterotype, racism, sexism, censorship, or any other host of beliefs. Not to defend a belief here either way, but some people prefer to see themselves free of stereotypes while others prefer to drive with a stereotype and test the wisdom of their generalization. The mind learns by generalizing, interpolation and extrapolation... but protracting one onto an otherwise perfect stranger is sort of like claiming 'guilty until proven innocent'... or, 'biased until proven a free will'. Protracting a stereotype onto someone can also be like making fun of attributes that a person did not choose... a deaf person probably did not choose to have no hearing, and a person born into a country with anything dominate probably did not get to make some choices in how they were raised in the first place. My 2 cents on that subject.

The_Lord... is that not a presumptuous and loaded name? I'd like to hear more about your experience that involved music.

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I agree the title is probably not the best...

Really, you think? How about another thread titled "Did Jews stop drinking the blood of Christian boys?" Or, "Is Christianity actually a religion of Love?" I know many people who would like to take you on if you use such a title.

An issue I'd like to see addressed, though, is that I have a lot of difficulty seeing Muslims on CR comment or even criticse any aspect of the modern Muslim world.

I don't believe any Muslim on CR has ever started a thread lamenting the atrocities in Iraq between Sunni and Shi'a; the fighting between Fatah and Hamas; the state of some Muslim countries as little more than playgrounds for corrupt dictators; and similar.

Perhaps we simply don't have a large enough Muslim membership to facilitate such discussions, but the impression given is that there's a general feeling of trying to avoid any critical comments on any aspect of the modern Islamic word, in case it's seen as "unMuslim".

This is certainly in contrast to the Christianity board, where Christians have no problems criticising aspects of the modern Christian world where they are seen to be against the spirit and/or letter of Christian faith.

That's why I thought juantoo3's post was worth starting as a new thread - to invite a more open discussion about problems within Islam by Muslims, away from more general eulogising of its benefits.

2c.

You do understand that the percentage of Muslims who reside in the west, and then even those who would be fluent enough in English to discuss matters here, is very minimal, and that is assuming they really know or care about this site. The fact that you do not know of their debates in other media or forums, and in other languages is your shortcoming and loss, and not theirs. They are under no obligation to explain or apologize to you. If they do, then we thank them for it and try to understand them. Judging from what I have seen do far, if a Muslim even attempts to post a positive point on Islam he is automatically ganged against and cut down to size. The sheer numbers of Christians and Jews on this board makes it virtually impossible for him/her to be able to counter the attacks. Besides, why would a Muslim start such a thread which he/she knows that most of you would seize the opportunity to attach bigoted propaganda to their discussions about their faith? After all there are plenty of anti-Islamic and derogatory hate posts on this site. No need to add some more. And yes, this thread, and your “general feeling” about the topic fall well within the sentiment of this thread: they are bigoted.

[The Lord]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

... I'd like to hear more about your experience that involved music.

I do not play keyboards, if that is what you are asking about . However, I play the drums (not in a band now) and I like classic rock and heavy metal. However, I prefer the older bands to the newer ones.