Is human intelligence the result of Alien intervention?

[taijasi]

Hmmm ... well I have a pretty good feeling, that whether terrestrial or extra-terrestrial, not simply Intelligence, but all sentient life, and in fact, every particle in Cosmos ... is Divine. Not even just "from" the Divine ... for that becomes too handily Deistic. Nor completely embodying the Divine, for perhaps that is true to one who has transcended all dualities, but for those of us discussing the evolution of intelligence, and the contributions of other Humanities ... there is still duality.

But I not believe for a second ... that some vague, inchoate, mysterious primordial soup gave rise to life upon this, or any other planet, and crept its way along on all fours, and perhaps even began to respond to its surroundings, animalistically & in utter ignorance - until somehow, bang-zap-zoom, there came Intellect! Evolution may indeed occur by fits & starts, but viewed over the vast aeons, it is gradual, cyclical, and a spiral.

An event that is heralded in the Wisdom Teachings as the Dawn of Mind upon this planet, is spoken of as transpiring 18 million years ago with the advent of the Venusian Lords of the Flame, to which I've already alluded. Yet their contribution was to fan the spark, as it were, into a Flame. This bursting forth of Mind (and self-consciousness) is therefore regarded as a service, yet not a gift as such. The very faculty, of Intellect (or Manas, mind) ... is regarded by some as spiritually present within our very nature! Certainly it's source is not the physical body, although Descartes correctly identified the pineal gland as the seat of the Soul. Also of importance is the pituitary body, and esoterically the life-thread (sutra-atma, or sutratma) is located within the heart. [The thread of consciousness, or antahkarana, would be associated with the brain.]

The development of an increasingly-larger cranium, and growth of the neocortex, are certainly a response to the evolution of Mind, or its parallel ... but I am a believer in an evolution that is intimately guided by beings of vast spiritual stature, Love, & Intelligence ... always present upon our planet. Not a single atom is without their vitalization, and not a single lifeform is created without their agency. Science does not yet recognized the Devas, and even esoteric students sometimes think of them as isolated Archangels only. But if they ensoul all forms, then this is a mistaken notion. Every planet, every lifeform, and every atom - has its ensouling agents, and in the case of the human, these are multiple. Probably likewise, on other planets. And why not an ongoing interaction, with an important push coming from time to time, when needed?

This just seems like so much more a sober, sensible & sane point of view than the extreme reactionary viewpoint that often surrounds the idea of "alien intervention" and "genetic mutation" and so forth. If there's anything or anyone we should be concerned about, and afraid of - in these glorious days of genetic engineering & pet cloning & stem cell research ... it's us!

andrew

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by taijasi

The very faculty, of Intellect (or Manas, mind) ... is regarded by some as spiritually present within our very nature! Certainly it's source is not the physical body, although Descartes correctly identified the pineal gland as the seat of the Soul. Also of importance is the pituitary body, and esoterically the life-thread (sutra-atma, or sutratma) is located within the heart. [The thread of consciousness, or antahkarana, would be associated with the brain....

Nice to find somebody almost pecisely on the same wave length. Reading behind your lines it may be that we have a few important points of potential difference. If that is indeed so, it would be nice to air them and see if we can find some meeting ground in between.
Shankara stated that all physical manifestations are 'maya' basically illusional ...all that truly exists is spiritual. Science of course has precisely the opposit view. I have always instinctively felt that both are looking at opposit sides of the same coin. Quntum theory supports the seeming duality of atomic reactions - of being both particle and wave at the same time, with the fascinating qualification that this split view is dependant on the consciousness of the exprimenter. Heisenbeg states that any definate determination is not possible - that only probabilities exist. Tantric Yoga practioners expreience consciousness as kundilini energy, which enters the body via oxygenation (ma-na, Divine Breath) and is kinetically stored at the base of the spine in the mulahadara chakra. Consciousness is basically stirred (attracted) by sensual ideation and, if properly focused, rises up shashuma, passing through and extracting the flavor of each succeeding chakra to finally arrive in the shasrara chakra as an ecstatic realization of the omnicient nature (sexual/courageous/conscientious/loving/ visionary/intellectual) Consciousness of the Divine. During tantric practices I have shared in and can confirm the same experience. My personal conclusion is that without the creation of an organic body and the consequent evolution of a high state of organic intelligence, the Divine could not experience all the flavors of orgasmic excitement.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

I think we are at cross perposes on this qurestion about aliens. I meant that if humans are the result of "alien intervention" (which I do not believe myself) that answer in itself is superficiial - for it does not address who created the aliens I never suggested that you had no concern for the ultimate question. For me it is no longer a question. Everything in existence gives me a satisfactory answer. The Sun is an expression of God and so are you and I and every other atomic association in the cosmos. My argument is with those who refuse to acknowledge this Universal Consciousness, because of an artificial empirical restriction that does allow what one "feels" to be admitted as credible evidence - no matter how certain that feeling is.

Actually no, we are not. "Aliens" from my perspective are that which is not Human. God, Divine intervention, Intelligent design coupled with evolutionary processes is "alien" to us (or was up to recent times). We didn't invent genetic research for example. We discovered the genome Clearly a work of genius and complexity still so far beyond our ken, we are in kindergarten, that came from some intelligence above and beyond our greatest minds combined.

We both know that time is a relative concept so that no longer becomes an issue. We know that space is a relative concept intrinsically tied in with time, therefore that no longer is an issue. We know that time and space affect (if not create), the energetic forces of gravity (assisted by mass which is a low frequency of energy), so that no longer is an issue.

Example: the Earth produces diamond over thousands of years under tremendous pressures, yet there are flaws in the result. We can make a diamond in a day, and make it flawless. We didn't invent the thing, we merely discovered how it was made, and tweaked on the process. However, the price we pay is that because we made it so fast, it yellows with time. Why? because we rushed the process of carbon crystalizing into diamond.

Evolution is the same way. Rush the time, and the "perfect copy" isn't so perfect. We rush because we want to see results in our life time, which is far shorter than the "genius" that designed the whole of our existence to begin with.

Where am I going with all this? Man is too busy trying to become God, that he fails to see that he is creating a flawed concept of God. So instead of becoming God, he becomes like a god, a flawed copy. Never the less, in striving to become like God, man is alienating himself from himself. Hence man is no longer part of this natural world. And in a sense, we have become the alien intervention in our own natural development, let alone that of the world.

And it started the moment we became sentient...

my "sober" thoughts

v/r

Q

[wil]

Originally Posted by taijasi

Esoteric Teachings actually indicate that this is precisely what occurred, save that it wasn't another solar system - it was Venus. And it was 18 million years ago, though the awakening (and not an "implanting&quot occurred only gradually.

I believe the ram teachings put the reptillian frontal lobe influence from the anunaki also from within our solar system yet parallel universe. That our cerebelum is our modem/router to G-d, the ethers all thought, all manifestation, and that only focused thought (prayer) in the frontal lobe rather than dualistic thoughts bouncing between left and right( and wrong and good and bad) brain. ie the cerebelum can't focus on a tennis match of what ifs and doubt...but pure belief...faith...that mustard seed again...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

I believe the ram teachings put the reptillian frontal lobe influence from the anunaki also from within our solar system yet parallel universe. That our cerebelum is our modem/router to G-d, the ethers all thought, all manifestation, and that only focused thought (prayer) in the frontal lobe rather than dualistic thoughts bouncing between left and right( and wrong and good and bad) brain. ie the cerebelum can't focus on a tennis match of what ifs and doubt...but pure belief...faith...that mustard seed again...

If stupidity were an elevation to achieve, some of us would win the Gold hands down (not meant for you Wil). The original idea was is there some merit to the potential of Humans being modified by outside forces to achieve the intelligence we seem to have.

Not if there are martians out there...

Q

[taijasi]

... the merit, as I see it, believing in the coming of the Lords of the Flame, is that we are now where we are, and this is ahead of schedule (in many regards), which is definitely good. Had there not been intervention, we would still be cavemen.

But the advantage does not reach Humanity alone, for all kingdoms were benefitted, particularly the animal.

Will have to respond to your post a bit later, MagnetMan, but I look forward to it very much. We're definitely on the same wavelength; everything you are saying is familiar to me.

cheers,

andrew

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Where am I going with all this? Man is too busy trying to become God, that he fails to see that he is creating a flawed concept of God. So instead of becoming God, he becomes like a god, a flawed copy. Never the less, in striving to become like God, man is alienating himself from himself. Hence man is no longer part of this natural world. And in a sense, we have become the alien intervention in our own natural development, let alone that of the world.

It is understandable that at this moment of our evolution, while still in our rushing teens, sowing our wild oats and daring God with nuclear guns, that we might be a little cynical about our ultimate purposes. But if we accept the Divinity of our orgins, then we must too accept the Divinity of our destination -- from Big bang to Big Crunch. We have just entered a New Age of planet management. Many are already aware of the sober resposnibilities that lie ahead and the great challenges we have to meet.. After we have succeeded in our stewardship, an Age of Mastership will follow, when the God's-to-be will no longer be so flawed.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

It is understandable that at this moment of our evolution, while still in our rushing teens, sowing our wild oats and daring God with nuclear guns, that we might be a little cynical about our ultimate purposes. But if we accept the Divinity of our orgins, then we must too accept the Divinity of our destination -- from Big bang to Big Crunch. We have just entered a New Age of planet management. Many are already aware of the sober resposnibilities that lie ahead and the great challenges we have to meet.. After we have succeeded in our stewardship, an Age of Mastership will follow, when the God's-to-be will no longer be so flawed.

I fail to see the logic in determining that all humans are in a specific time frame of cosmic age, (e.g. teen age), and suspect that many elder humans might (most likely would), take issue with your notion that they are collectively of a teenage mindset.

However, if we were to follow your train of thought on the collective of mankind, then the North Americans, the Russians, and the Europeans figured out years ago that pulling "nuclear guns" out, for example was an exercise in futility. However, the Middle East and South East Asia have no such qualms, if they had them to pull. South America simply decided that nuclear development was financially unfeasable, and Africa and Australia could care less.

So, it seems we have a series of groups of humans in various stages of "development". And some seem to be more arrested than others.

Hate to say it, but apparently it is true, religion, the types of (or lack of), has a great deal to do with who is where, and why. Culture, also has a great deal to do with the status of certain groups of people.

Perhaps you are looking at the big picture. Granted it may look more or less grand, however anyone can throw a can of paint on a masterpiece, and there are those who would have no problem with doing just that.

What do you say about them? (Rhetorical question)

The original thought was human intelligence the result of alien intervention. We have been working with "primates" for nearly 100 years, intensely for the past 40 years, to get them to "speak" our language, and think like we do. That to the "chimpanzee" would be considered alien intervention. No?

We are a "god" to them (their own words), which thank "God" the handlers and scientists have insisted is not the case (to them). Give a Chimpanzee a cat, and what do you think happens? He becomes the care giver, a god (in his own mind) over the cat. If he is responsible for providing food for the cat, then to the cat the Chimp is like a god...

Many religions speak of "enlightened ones" coming from the sky (Christianity more or less included), and teaching us to be better. They become "God" to us. The pattern is there. We didn't come off the turnip truck yesterday (maybe it was the day before), but we have had help, and that help came from the outside. Man mimics what man experiences...

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I fail to see the logic in determining that all humans are in a specific time frame of cosmic age, (e.g. teen age), and suspect that many elder humans might (most likely would), take issue with your notion that they are collectively of a teenage mindset.

I know elders who are in a regressive infantile mindset. I am 65 and have yet to feel older than 15. I do not believe that we have a single true adult yet born on our planet. The most advanced among us are still in the teen state. Only a minority of New Agers have awoken to the beginnings of an understanding of our adult global responsibilities. The Nuclear Age will initiate us all into the Ethic of global stewardship. Most are still entrepreneural exploitators, out for the fast buck and cheap thrill with no true parental care for the distant future and the generations to come. America, for instance, has no long-term parental goals. We live from one admistration to the next, and one corporate balance sheet to the next, and let tomorrow and the family estate look after itself. All prodigal teenage traits.

However, if we were to follow your train of thought on the collective of mankind, then the North Americans, the Russians, and the Europeans figured out years ago that pulling "nuclear guns" out, for example was an exercise in futility. However, the Middle East and South East Asia have no such qualms, if they had them to pull. South America simply decided that nuclear development was financially unfeasable, and Africa and Australia could care less.

I was talking about the West at that point. Africa is still largely in the Bronze Age childhood of oral-based agricutural traditions - struggling with its painful pubertal initiation into script-based nationalism. South America is still locked into Iron Age nationalism and rigid catholism - struggling to graduate into (rebellious) internationalism. Once both get into their collective teens, without better examples than the West is giving, they too will want nuclkear guns - just like the Middle East does today.

So, it seems we have a series of groups of humans in various stages of "development". And some seem to be more arrested than others.

Precisely.

Hate to say it, but apparently it is true, religion, the types of (or lack of), has a great deal to do with who is where, and why. Culture, also has a great deal to do with the status of certain groups of people.

Right again.

Perhaps you are looking at the big picture. Granted it may look more or less grand, however anyone can throw a can of paint on a masterpiece, and there are those who would have no problem with doing just that.

What do you say about them? (Rhetorical question)

I do tend to generalize. True. But I pay enough attention to detail,(more than most generals I know of) for me to reveal my profound respect for all the Ages of ancestral effort.

[ quote] The original thought was human intelligence the result of alien intervention. We have been working with "primates" for nearly 100 years, intensely for the past 40 years, to get them to "speak" our language, and think like we do. That to the "chimpanzee" would be considered alien intervention. No?[/quote]

No. We are close cousins. We share 98% of our DNA. I clearly recognize the ape in myself. I see many big gorillas out there grabbing for the most bananas (and others cow-towing before them) We are definately not alien to each other.

We are a "god" to them (their own words), which thank "God" the handlers and scientists have insisted is not the case (to them). Give a Chimpanzee a cat, and what do you think happens? He becomes the care giver, a god (in his own mind) over the cat. If he is responsible for providing food for the cat, then to the cat the Chimp is like a god...

The cat knows all as God, itself included. Only man has come to see himself as a separate god.The reason for that - I believe - is the most profound evolutionary event on earth, if not the entire Cosmos. God needed the illusion of a witness to His own creation. Narcissis staring at the mirror of his own reflection.

Many religions speak of "enlightened ones" coming from the sky (Christianity more or less included), and teaching us to be better. They become "God" to us. The pattern is there. We didn't come off the turnip truck yesterday (maybe it was the day before), but we have had help, and that help came from the outside. Man mimics what man experiences..

my thoughts

v/r

Q

Our Sun radiates more than physical heat and vitamen D. Every ion is filled with Love and Compassion raining down from the sky. It is what makes a flower bloom so radiantly and a young deer prance with delight on a warm spring morning. We certainly do have help! Every atom in us responds to it. Praise be to God.