is Evil real?

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Paladin

I think in order to see a higher truth it would be necessary to look deeply into the question itself, is the question appropriate to what we are really asking? At what level then would the question and the answer appear as the same thing? And have we then created a Koan? I know how ambiguous this must sound but I can't help it popping into my mind after reading these posts.

Peace

Yes. A koan. Very good Mark

JM

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

I would think Evil is anything that intentionally hurts yourself or Humanity.

Rev Kelly,

That would cover an abundance of things, wouldn't it? And if it has to be intentional then does the same act without intention to hurt make it not 'evil'? Who determines whether the intention is to hurt or to help? Isn't that just a perception in the mind of the doer? Will one think it 'evil' and another not? To what degree of hurt do we apply 'evil' and to what degree of hurt do we not apply 'evil'. To what degree do we apply justifiable intentions? It seems to me pretty hard to accurately define something that has only existence and reality within the mind of the one declaring the existence of such a thing. It seems to me that finding agreement will define it for society for a time but even that changes with its whims and fantasies, new cultures, governments, religions and a myriad of other variables.

Love in Christ,
JM

[RevKelly]

Joseph,

You raise a very good point. I read the news and we just had a couple of Police Officers in the Chicago area get shot by some Gang Members. To me, that's Evil. I consider the Gang itself Evil. A group of people that get together to do Very Bad Things. If someone's car on the highway slips on some ice and runs into my car, that's an accident. There was no intent to harm me there. But if some selfish doofus with a gun and an attitude robs my house and shoots me, there's the intent, right? We also had a shooting out by me recently where the shooter claimed he was just firing a warning shot. Well, who he shot ended up dying. He still got aquitted, tho. If he lied in court to get away with it - well, that's Evil then, right? If he really did fire a warning shot, then it was an accident, and the intent wasn't there. And truthfully, only he knows for sure.

You're right, it does cover an abundance of things. Six hundred, three score and six Bad Things it would cover, I would think.

Peace,

Kelly

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

I would think Evil is anything that intentionally hurts yourself or Humanity.

(What exactly is a Koan, Paladin? I understand that 'the sound of one hand clapping' is a Koan, but I'm not sure what the definition is)

Greetings RevKelly, if I may..........

A zen koan is a short story or sentence that initially seems paradoxical.


Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind.
One said, the flag moves.
The other said, the wind moves.
They could not agree.

Consider, it is not the flag that moves.
It is not the wind that moves.
It is your mind that moves,
said another.

The two monks were struck with awe.

- c -

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Greetings RevKelly, if I may..........

A zen koan is a short story or sentence that initially seems paradoxical.


Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind.
One said, the flag moves.
The other said, the wind moves.
They could not agree.

Consider, it is not the flag that moves.
It is not the wind that moves.
It is your mind that moves,
said another.

The two monks were struck with awe.

- c -

The flag is moved by the wind and the mind perceives the effect of one on the other, hence the visible shows us the invisible. The wonder is that the mind can tell the difference.

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

Joseph,
(snip)
We also had a shooting out by me recently where the shooter claimed he was just firing a warning shot. Well, who he shot ended up dying. He still got aquitted, tho. If he lied in court to get away with it - well, that's Evil then, right?
(snip)

Rev Kelly,
Well, most may see it that way... Personally, if he lied in court, I would say he lied in court. No more, no less. Evil? Only if you choose to see it that way.

Thanks for your response,
JM

[RevKelly]

Well, which would be a sin? The Deception or the Murder? Both, I would think. I find it a really strange thing on this planet that a lot of people don't see Deception as a problem. I got into an arguement on a different site about this. I see Deception as the Root Of All Evil. I also find it very interesting that there is no word in the English language that means 'unable to be decieved' Skeptical is close, but that means more 'not trusting'. Wisdom and Integrity would help protect against Deception, but that's still not it. 'Undecievable' would be a nice quality to have, I would think.

Peace,

Kelly

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

Well, which would be a sin? The Deception or the Murder? Both, I would think. I find it a really strange thing on this planet that a lot of people don't see Deception as a problem. I got into an arguement on a different site about this. I see Deception as the Root Of All Evil. I also find it very interesting that there is no word in the English language that means 'unable to be decieved' Skeptical is close, but that means more 'not trusting'. Wisdom and Integrity would help protect against Deception, but that's still not it. 'Undecievable' would be a nice quality to have, I would think.

Peace,

Kelly

Discerning/Discernment: Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French discerner, from Latin discernere to separate, distinguish between, from dis- apart + cernere to sift

[RevKelly]

Yeah, that was another one I came up with, as well as Incredulous and Suspicious. But what is the exact opposite of Gullible? What is the opposite of 'able to be easily decieved'?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

Yeah, that was another one I came up with, as well as Incredulous and Suspicious. But what is the exact opposite of Gullible? What is the opposite of 'able to be easily decieved'?

Wise.

[seattlegal]

A mirroring of evil...

Originally Posted by Matt 5:38-42

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ ...

...is to be replaced by the practice of compassion:

Originally Posted by Matt 5 continued

...39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person... But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

IMHO, this demonstrates the reality of evil, and gives the means by which to dispell it.

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Wise.

Wise as a man who has a fixed rate of discernment, knowing the difference between right and wrong in all circumstances. I agree with RevKelly that anything done in this life to intentionally hurt others or ourselves is not in accord. A wise man is not as a flag blowing in the wind.
As you say Q, the wonder is that the mind can tell the difference.

- c -

[RevKelly]

Yeah, Wisdom and Integrity are the only things I've found that could protect against Deception.

[flowperson]

Ummm. I was looking at some website stuff regarding one of my favorite philosophers. Eric Hoffer. His book, True Believer, written and published in 1951, pretty much is still a classic. My personal opinion is that it did a lot to stir our sensibilities as a nation and wake us up when Sen, McCarthy started his Commie-bashing witch hunting schtick in the 50's.

Here is what he said about evil.

"Good and evil grow up together and are bound in an equilibrium that cannot be sundered. The most we can do is try to tilt the equilibrium toward the good."

Gonna have to reread that book I think. He did a series of TV interviews with the late Eric Sevaried at CBS in the late 60's, but I don't know if there are recordings of that available.

flow....

[mee]

Originally Posted by ;387

I don't believe in evil. people just do stuff. We decide whether they are evil.People blame satan for evil but ive never seen Satan and think people use him as an excuse.We need to take responsabillity for our selves and not blame others.we make the choice. ???

Who Really Rules the World? good link , have a read. also the bible tells us that satan the devil is the ruler of this world . 1 john 5;19 the one spoken of here is satan the devil so he has GREAT INFLUENCE