Is Ethics just for the lower classes?

[Sacredstar]

Dear Lunamoth

The line is drawn at the heart of conscience?

Every scientist should ask themself am I trying to change the natural order of the universe? Am I changing the natural born energy, e.g. the genetic work that is going on is against cosmic law. There will be karmic repercussions that is the nature of the universe.

Through greed and desire man seeks to control nature, and get it to do his will, but yet all nature is GOD's creation and so one should not tamper with that, unless one is prepared for the consequences.

Dear Abogado

Well we have fought hard here in the Uk to keep GM crops out, and countries like Italy did not even take on fertilisers and pesticides in any degree, which is why it is the most ecological country in Europe.(That's one of the places that I would like to build an eco village). Although I accept that some GM is creeping into the food chain from by products and products coming from abroad. But procedures here are very tight indeed and so are the activists.

So yes it is getting in, hidden from the manufacturer's sometimes. Even that has been on a national tv programme where dutch farmers had told lies about their produce.

The UK is just not up for it and people here are quite militant about GM.

The soil is empty of nutrients and now we are eating food that is lacking too!

Many of us spiritual people are hoping to build eco-villages asap to begin sustainable living, so there is a future for our children's children.

A great book on the soil is 'Secrets of the Soil, New Solutions for Restoring Our Planet' by US authors Peter Thompkins and Christopher Bird.

And I just adore these houses the first one has been built in Scotland paid for by the council.

www.earthships.com

Onwards and upwards

Sacredstar

[Abogado del Diablo]

Sacredstar,

My comment was directed at the fact that GM or "genetically modified" includes every single food crop on the planet. Humans have been "GM"ing food for tens of thousands of years.

Why are the actions of humans not "natural," anyway?

[Sacredstar]

Dear Abogado

Why do humans think they are more important then a horse or a flower! All is GOD's creation and sacred divinity. Man is destroying it and not honoring the cycles of nature. A field needs a rest just like humans needs a rest, but yet we abuse nature itself, and when we do that we abuse GOD.

Nobel Prize Winner Dr Alexis Carel 1912, said The earth is ailing almost beyond repair and he warned that since the soil is the basis for all human life, our only hope for a healthy world rests on re-establishing the harmony in the soil. "

and Rudolf Steiner said "So long as one feeds on food from unhealthy soil, the spirit will lack the stamina to free itself from the prisons of the body."

So the disease we see today on this planet is our very own co-creation.

When we love the earth it loves us right back!

Sacredstar

[Sacredstar]

Recent research is also enlightening us on the negative impact of a high-carbohydrate diet which has become the stable diet for most people especially children and the poor. Not only is it creating obesity but it blocks the communications between the hormones and endocrine/chakra system helping to stimulate further disease.

Recent research completed at Great Ormand Street Children's Hospital found that when children were put onto a Ketogenic diet their epileptic fits completely stopped.

As Jesus said 'forgive them father for they not what they do'

Love beyond measure

Sacrtedstar

[Sacredstar]

Dear Lunamoth

and here it is in scripture

The law is the living word of living GOD to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You will find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes in the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly all living things are nearer to GOD than the scripture which is without life.

God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true GOD to man. GOD wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit.

But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our GOD.

The Essene Gospel of Peace Book 1

and so Christ speaks of the laws of nature

and how do we honour the law of nature?

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Abogado

Why do humans think they are more important then a horse or a flower!

Because they do.

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

All is GOD's creation and sacred divinity.

All but humans?

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Man is destroying it and not honoring the cycles of nature.

How is "man" separate from nature?

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

A field needs a rest just like humans needs a rest, but yet we abuse nature itself, and when we do that we abuse GOD.

Then GOD abuses GOD?

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Nobel Prize Winner Dr Alexis Carel 1912, said The earth is ailing almost beyond repair and he warned that since the soil is the basis for all human life,

Is the Earth to be protected or is human life what is to be protected?

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

and Rudolf Steiner said "So long as one feeds on food from unhealthy soil, the spirit will lack the stamina to free itself from the prisons of the body."

Knowing the Truth will free the spirit from the prisons of the body.

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

So the disease we see today on this planet is our very own co-creation.

Or are we - its creation?

From "Twighlight of the Idols":

No one is responsible for man's being there at all, for his being such-and-such, or for his being in these circumstances or in this environment. The fatality of his essence is not to be disentangled from the fatality of all that has been and will be. Man is not the effect of some special purpose, of a will, an end; nor is he the object of an attempt to attain an "ideal of humanity" or an "ideal of happiness" or an "ideal of morality"—it is absurd to wish to devolve one's essence on some end or other. We have invented the concept of "end": in reality there is no end ...One is necessary, one is a piece of fatefulness, one belongs to the whole, one is in the whole; there is nothing which could judge, measure, compare, or sentence our being, for that would mean judging, measuring, comparing, or sentencing the whole ... But there is nothing besides the whole!— That nobody is held responsible any longer, that the mode of being may not be traced back to a causa prima, that the world does not form a unity either as a sensorium or as "spirit"—that alone is the great liberation; with this alone is the innocence of becoming restored ... The concept of "God" was until now the greatest objection to existence ... We deny God, we deny the responsibility in God: only thereby do we redeem the world.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Well firstly how do you know? My experience is that when we are in balance we are in the state of grace with GOD and we grow in oneness and communion with the source, and we cannot ask for better then that! So instead of learning lessons from mistakes made, life is pure harmony, swimmng with the tide of the synchronicity of the cosmos instead of against it!

Technically, total perfect balance is static, and life is not static. We are an exception to the rule and our existence would seem to defy the second law of thermodynamics, that everything in the univese tends to disorder. However, when you consider that we are part of an open system, and our existence comes at the expense of greater than average disorder somewhere else in the universe, it is understandable.

As for our exchange about honoring children, I think I will just stick with saying that different children have different needs and to ignore those differences is not to treat them fairly. I don't really think we differ much in philosophy, we are just using different ways of saying things. However, I do set limits in my house. I tend to follow the ideas of "Love and Logic," if you are familiar with that approach. I will also say that my daughters, now 2 and 4, were adopted from China and were each in orphanages for the first several months of their lives. I tried to ignore this fact for about two years, but it was to our perile. I have also discovered that every family has to find what works for them, one size does not fit all.

It is threefold and the centre is the Grace of GOD

Well, this is interesting but I don't understand it.

lunamoth

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Lunamoth

The line is drawn at the heart of conscience?

Every scientist should ask themself am I trying to change the natural order of the universe? Am I changing the natural born energy, e.g. the genetic work that is going on is against cosmic law. There will be karmic repercussions that is the nature of the universe.

Through greed and desire man seeks to control nature, and get it to do his will, but yet all nature is GOD's creation and so one should not tamper with that, unless one is prepared for the consequences.

Dear Sacredstar,

OK, I think we should turn to our conscience when addressing these questions. But are you really comfortable with that? I am a scientist, I worked on genetic engineering of plants for many years, and I think that the work I've done was ethical and good. Most of the work I did was aimed at elucidating the mechanisms of plant defense against diseases and environmental stress. The end product would be crops that would not need pesticides or other chemical additives in the field, or would have higher yield from the same acreage. Now, the type of work I did not happen to involve inserting foreign genes into plants, although I do not see anything inherently unnatural or wrong in doing that. I do have some concerns about the safety of biologically engineered foods, but they have more to do with the integrity of the gene pool (of plants) than with human health. I also do not think that bioengineered foods, in the sense of inserting foreign genes into plants or animals, is really the answer to the world's problems. I think that there are some pretty big lapses in business ethics around BE foods. But my main reservations about the technique have mostly to do with my belief that there are other, more efficient things that can be done to solve the world food shortage, which will come.

See, I told you you struck a nerve!

Peace

P.S. I love those eco villages too. There was one in a town I lived in.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Recent research is also enlightening us on the negative impact of a high-carbohydrate diet which has become the stable diet for most people especially children and the poor. Not only is it creating obesity but it blocks the communications between the hormones and endocrine/chakra system helping to stimulate further disease.

Recent research completed at Great Ormand Street Children's Hospital found that when children were put onto a Ketogenic diet their epileptic fits completely stopped.

As Jesus said 'forgive them father for they not what they do'

Love beyond measure

Sacrtedstar

"The ketogenic diet, which is very high in fats and low in carbohydrates, was first developed almost 80 years ago. It makes the body burn fat for energy instead of glucose. When carefully monitored by a medical team familiar with its use, the diet helps two out of three children who are tried on it and may prevent seizures completely in one out of three. It is a strict diet, and takes a strong commitment from the whole family. The ketogenic diet is not a do-it-yourself diet. It is a serious form of treatment that, like other therapies for epilepsy, has some side effects that have to be watched for. More research is being done to learn about the underlying reasons for the diet's positive effect."

from:

http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/an...reatment/diet/

Diet is a place where balance is important!

No matter what we eat, something has died for us. I agree we should honor that unavoidable fact.

peace!

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Lunamoth

and here it is in scripture

The law is the living word of living GOD to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You will find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes in the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly all living things are nearer to GOD than the scripture which is without life.

God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true GOD to man. GOD wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit.

But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our GOD.

The Essene Gospel of Peace Book 1

Now this I really like. What is the Essene Gospel of Peace Book 1? When written, by whom? Guess next I'll check Brian's apocrypha

[alexa]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

another case in point is cloning and GM foods anything that plays with nature is against the natural laws.

I do not have any problems in accepting plants and animal cloning. Do you know for some species, this is the only way to survive ? And some geneticians do their best to find solutions for this planet in a continually population growing and environmental degradation. And we eat from quite some time GM foods. Only the media changed the perception on them.

Natural laws ? Hmm. From which century ?

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Now this I really like. What is the Essene Gospel of Peace Book 1? When written, by whom? Guess next I'll check Brian's apocrypha

It's allegely part of a secret manuscript hidden by the Vatican that has only been seen by one man. It was written by Edmund Bordeaux Szekeley in 1937 when he called it the "Gospel of Peace by the Disciple John". He changed the name in 1977 to the "Essene Gospel of Peace."

Is it conceivable that it's real? Sure. But it's highly doubtful IMO. You'll find absolutely nothing about it from religious scholars or historians who undoubtedly would be deeply fascinated by such a strange work if there were any reason to believe it was authentic.

Just an aside, one of its more interesting additions to the canon is the requirement that christians administer enemas to themselves to enter God's kingdom. From Book II:

No man may come before the face of God whom the angel of water lets not pass. in very truth, all must be born again of water and of truth, for your body bathes in the river of earthly life, and your spirit bathes in the river of life everlasting. For you receive your blood from our Earthly Mother and the truth from our Heavenly Father.

Think not that it is sufficient that the angel of water embrace you outwards only. I tell you truly, the uncleanness within is greater by much than the uncleanness without. And he who cleanses himself without, but within remains unclean, is like to tombs that outwards are painted fair, but are within full of all manner of horrible uncleannesses and abominations. So I tell you truly, suffer the angel of water to baptize you also within, that you may become free from all your past sins, and that within likewise you may become as pure as the river's foam sporting in the sunlight.

Seek, therefore, a large trailing gourd, having a stalk the length of a man; take out its inwards and fill it with water from the river which the sun has warmed. Hang it upon the branch of a tree, and kneel upon the ground before the angel of water, and suffer the end of the stalk of the trailing gourd to enter your hinder parts, that the water may flow through all your bowels. Afterwards rest kneeling on the ground before the angel of water and pray to the living God that he will forgive you all your past sins, and pray the angel of water that he will free your body from every uncleanness and disease. Then let the water run out from your body, that it may carry away from within it all the unclean and evil-smelling things of Satan. And you shall see with your eyes and smell with your nose all the abominations, and uncleannesses which defiled the temple of your body; even all the sins which abode in your body, tormenting you with all manner of pains. I tell you truly, baptism with water frees you from all of these. Renew your baptizing with water on every day of your fast, till the day when you see that the water which flows out of you is as pure as the river's foam. Then betake your body to the coursing river, and there in the arms of the angel of water render thanks to the living God that he has freed you from your sins. And this holy baptizing by the angel of water is: Rebirth unto the new life. For your eyes shall henceforth see, and your ears shall hear. Sin no more, therefore, after your baptism, that the angels of air and of water may eternally abide in you and serve you evermore.

Holy Crap! (Sorry, couldn't resist )

For a little of its history, read this:

http://www.compassionatespirit.com/strange_new_gospels.htm

To read the "Essene Gospel of Peace" itself, go here:

Book I: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=194
Book II: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=193
Book III: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=192

[Sacredstar]

Dear Abogado

But very interesting that scientists are now proving that water holds memory, we also know that if we do not drink enough water the toxins do not leave the lungs we are also aware of the importance of water to the kidneys. Hence why people get kidney problems, the kidneys are the shen of who we are, in Tai Chi they say it holds the spirit of who we are.

Dr Emoto
Until the groundbreaking work of a pioneer Japanese researcher whose astonishing discovery about water, documented photographically,
changed most of what we didn't know and led to a new consciousness of Earth's most precious resource. The "messages" of water he has brought us
is here for you to share through Hado (Vibration)
www.hado.net

Lilliana Corredor, Ph.D.
Expert in Water & Aquatic Ecosystems
www.water-consciousness.com

I did not begin to seriously look at water until divine mother asked me to bless the waters. My feeling is that this scripture has held many truths that are now being revealed by science. The message is more important to me then the messenger, or its acceptance by scholars for they all have their own bias.

I have some other research links, I will try to find them.

Dear Lunamoth

I have copies of the 4 books of the Gospel of Peace and they are worth viewing there is some overlap of sayings from other gospels.

I agree with you about the children each one is unique and this is the way we honour them, to treat them as unique. I watched a video from Frank Arjava Petter who was married to a Japanese lady for many years, and he said that
in this part of the world they do not think the way we do, they are unable to separate the heart from the head. I would be interesting in your view of this bearing in mind your experiences with your own beautiful children. GOD bless you for all that you do for them.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[Sacredstar]

more on water

THE POWER OF WATER

Are Its Secrets the Keys to Solving Today's Most Vexing Problems?

By Jeane Manning in Atlantis Rising, No 19, 1999 (reproduced here with the kind permission of Atlantis Rising)

Our thinking apparatus runs on water. Our physical bodies are two-thirds water, so obviously its qualities can heal or harm us. We now learn that water seems to remember and later convey "information". No wonder the most dynamic frontier in science today is water research. Or is it a re-search, I wondered, after encountering researchers who: show how neuroscience tends to confirm medieval concepts situating memory, imagination and reason in water-filled cavities of the brain.
experiment with transferring, from water to us, the life-force energy chi, also called prana down through the ages, or study specially-shaped water pipes used by ancient Minoan culture in Crete; or show how the emanations from healers' hands change water. measure physical qualities of "holy water," or effects of conscious intent upon water's crystalline structure, or build prototype inventions aimed at using water as a source of energy.

http://www.implosionresearch.com/pow.html

[Sacredstar]

I have said before, I feel that as our realities change so does our perception and understanding of the universe change. This word Baptism what does it actually mean?

In ancient days it was seen as an initiation and surely is a blessing.

In modern language Divine Mother calls it 'Harmonic Epiphany' blessing the waters with conscious intent. I will make another post in the Christian forum on what I have written about this. The difference is that holy men have taken their divine right to do this, yet it is the divine right of all humanity to bless the self and the food and drink we consume. I even bless the waters and thank them when I take a shower, it is an amazing feeling when you allow these blessed waters to shower upon you with their love.

Maybe there was a lot more to the saying 'cleanliness is next to GODliness' and it would be interesting to see what the original translations of this word cleanliness are.

When you love the earth it loves you right back!

Sacredstar