Is Christianity a Negative Religion?

[lunamoth]

Thank you to all who have replied so far.

To narrow the question a bit, is it your impression that Christian theology has a negative view of humanity (i.e., we are sinners in need of salvation) or positive view of humanity (i.e., we were created in God's image).

[zeras]

Asalaamulikum,

I have to say that first of all, Negative can be defined differently to
different people. I view Christianity as religion belives in God, I also agree with you yes that is another big thing that I can't see people living and thinking that everyone is a sinner even a new born?? Also the idea of we are created from God's image, hmm. From recalling frome what Judaism teachs, God is like our Father. He is not like a human or you know father by blood. We are all in a way spritual childeren of God. Example, He takes care of us in our time of crisis and also gives us hard tasks to test us. This is But, I noticed the only people who become Atheists are the ones, who don't do studies and don't reseach enough. I would become a Christian, but I do not stay with with idea of the Trinity. I've noticed a pattern, about many reverts to Islam.
First, thing I noticed they are open minded people. Second, they study their holy texts and actually struggle to find the answer instead giving up. Third, I noticed are the people who had some intrest of learning what Islam is and/or have all ways hated Islam by bais and never actually studing it. I belive everyone must stuggle to find answers, if we do not than what are we??
We must all be strong holders of our faith and must all ways respect others.
Over all, Christinity itself is not bad. Like anything we must not judge a religion by it's followers, instead by it's teachings. Where ever there is missconceptions and once the truth is given the missconceptions will vanish. I hope this had helped.

Salaamulikum
(peace be upon you)

[wil]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Thank you to all who have replied so far.

To narrow the question a bit, is it your impression that Christian theology has a negative view of humanity (i.e., we are sinners in need of salvation) or positive view of humanity (i.e., we were created in God's image).

While it isn't my view, but I would say the prevailing perception I receive from others is that first, Adam was created in G-d's image, and second, we are all sinners, and third, anyone that doesn't believe in Jesus as their saviour is headed to hell.

It is not my belief, but it is what I hear most often....and looking at it, it does sound negative.

[AndrewX]

In short, I reject churchianity, which I think often presents Christ's teachings and message in a negative fashion ... while Christianity is nothing less than timeless Truth, in one of its many presentations to Humanity. I do not believe that it is was part of Christ's original message that anyone who did fall into the lockstep march of churchianity - would meet with eternal punishment and damnation. This is no more than fear tactics.


The Christian Way, unto itself, is something I regard as the Greatest Revelation yet delivered unto a needy and spiritually un-mature Humanity. G.K. Chesterton summarizes my own sentiment quite nicely:

"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."

And as Gandhiji similarly said:

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by wil

While it isn't my view, but I would say the prevailing perception I receive from others is that first, Adam was created in G-d's image, and second, we are all sinners, and third, anyone that doesn't believe in Jesus as their saviour is headed to hell.

It is not my belief, but it is what I hear most often....and looking at it, it does sound negative.

I agree with wil here. I think though that if Christianity were indeed spun the other way and based on the belief that we are all indeed children of God, the Christian institution as such would be more fruitful. I also think if Christianity was more focused on Jesus as a way-shower, rather than emphasizing his role as a saviour by whose sacrifice all of our evils are atoned for, Christianity could become a very positive force for upliftment. As it is now, from my point of view, Christianity is more concerned with tithing, in-fighting, prostration, and proselytizing.

Monty Python does a bit related to this:

God: Every time I try to talk to someone it's sorry this and forgive me that and I'm not worthy...

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

I do not believe that it is was part of Christ's original message that anyone who did fall into the lockstep march of churchianity - would meet with eternal punishment and damnation.

I don't believe it was part of His message either, in fact I think He taught just the opposite. Doing anything in lockstep (by law or decree alone) hinders the work of the Holy Spirit, IMO. However, I dont think that walking in lockstep is what all Christians do, or even what all denominations try to do. Can't argue with the fact, though, that this is how it is percieved and experienced by some.

This is no more than fear tactics.

When it happens like this...yes. The basis of fear is in judgement, I think.

[InLove]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Thank you to all who have replied so far.

To narrow the question a bit, is it your impression that Christian theology has a negative view of humanity (i.e., we are sinners in need of salvation) or positive view of humanity (i.e., we were created in God's image).

My view encompasses both. The way I see it, we have lost the purity of thought which exists in the mind of God. The opportunity to recapture this is within our reach, but in order to receive this back, we first have to realize or accept that we've lost it. Whether one reads the Bible in a completely literal fashion or a symbolic one, or a combination of these, the message, to me is the same.

If we observe just about any situation in earnest, we find both negative and positive elements. It is the way nature works. It is the way business works. It is how philosophy speaks. I could go on and on....I mean, we can harness electricity, but if we try to do it without both positive and negative charges, what do we have?

Truth is evident all around us. Even though we relate to it in differing and personal ways, it is still Truth. The Bible tells us--and this is one of those places that makes total sense to me--that if everything Jesus did while he was here were to be written down, there would not be enough room in the world to hold it all. That tells me that we (both Christians and non-Christians) place way too many limits on our Sacred Texts and this historical and timeless figure. We just don't yet have that purity of thought, but it is up to us to take the steps we need to take toward this end.

InPeace,
InLove

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by InLove

If we observe just about any situation in earnest, we find both negative and positive elements. It is the way nature works. It is the way business works. It is how philosophy speaks. I could go on and on....I mean, we can harness electricity, but if we try to do it without both positive and negative charges, what do we have?
InLove

Good points InLove...a number of people have so far hit upon this idea that there is both good and bad, positive and negative elements (ying and yang?) to Christianity and most everything else. And as others have said, I suppose it comes down to what we tend to emphasize, or have had emphasized upon us.

Movement depends upon disequilibrium and experience depends upon choice and diversity. One of the weaknesses of some flavors of liberal or strictly humanist Christianity is that there is no accounting for evil or the problems that we see in this world. No fall? What do you mean no fall...look around...does this seem like all is paradise? There was a lot of optimism in the very early 20th century with respect to what humans and technology could accomplish, and liberal Christianity had a heyday. Then the wars came and people were left feeling...if this is where human efforts get us how are we ever to be saved? Then there was a swing back toward orthodoxy as a result.

Meh, I'm just kind of rambling here (sorry). Guess what I'm saying is that we live in the tension between where we are and an ideal of what we could be, so we swing back and forth with optimism and pessimism as the prevailing attitude. Right now it seems that pessimism has the upper hand.

[LeoSalinas22]

hey, nick the pilot, have you ever considered how badly we have screwed up against God? read this scripture:

Jeremiah 3 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed. we as mankind are the unfaithful wife who has left her Husband to commit whoredoms with other lovers, being the world. we as mankind refuse to feel ashamed of ourselves. God keeps asking for us to come back to Him, to feel shame for how we have strayed off the path He has set for us. we have commited so many abominations in His eyes that isn't even funny. He has every right to forgive us for our transgressions because He did mold us out of clay? did He not? yet, we can't forgive one another at all because we would rather let "karma" take care of them. as surely as the Lord lives, vengeance belongs to Him and Him alone, not "karma"! i will have you know that i don't want Him taking vengeance on me, so i will repent and feel shame. i pray to God that you do the same.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

hey, nick the pilot, have you ever considered how badly we have screwed up against God? read this scripture:

Jeremiah 3 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed. we as mankind are the unfaithful wife who has left her Husband to commit whoredoms with other lovers, being the world. we as mankind refuse to feel ashamed of ourselves. God keeps asking for us to come back to Him, to feel shame for how we have strayed off the path He has set for us. we have commited so many abominations in His eyes that isn't even funny. He has every right to forgive us for our transgressions because He did mold us out of clay? did He not? yet, we can't forgive one another at all because we would rather let "karma" take care of them. as surely as the Lord lives, vengeance belongs to Him and Him alone, not "karma"! i will have you know that i don't want Him taking vengeance on me, so i will repent and feel shame. i pray to God that you do the same.

Actually Leo, from what Nick has shared we can see that karma is a harsher 'judge' than God as absolutely no one gets off the hook.

Also, I'd hoped we could keep the preaching out of this one thread. Makes it kind of unwelcoming and non-conducive to dialogue.

[LeoSalinas22]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Actually Leo, from what Nick has shared we can see that karma is a harsher 'judge' than God as absolutely no one gets off the hook.

Also, I'd hoped we could keep the preaching out of this one thread. Makes it kind of unwelcoming and non-conducive to dialogue.

[InLove]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Good points InLove...a number of people have so far hit upon this idea that there is both good and bad, positive and negative elements (ying and yang?) to Christianity and most everything else. And as others have said, I suppose it comes down to what we tend to emphasize, or have had emphasized upon us.

Movement depends upon disequilibrium and experience depends upon choice and diversity. One of the weaknesses of some flavors of liberal or strictly humanist Christianity is that there is no accounting for evil or the problems that we see in this world. No fall? What do you mean no fall...look around...does this seem like all is paradise? There was a lot of optimism in the very early 20th century with respect to what humans and technology could accomplish, and liberal Christianity had a heyday. Then the wars came and people were left feeling...if this is where human efforts get us how are we ever to be saved? Then there was a swing back toward orthodoxy as a result.

Meh, I'm just kind of rambling here (sorry). Guess what I'm saying is that we live in the tension between where we are and an ideal of what we could be, so we swing back and forth with optimism and pessimism as the prevailing attitude. Right now it seems that pessimism has the upper hand.

I honestly think that humans are so often afraid of anything that sounds too positive. Especially if it is something that goes against our experience. And we are all witness to so much negative experience in this world that when someone comes along and accentuates the positive, we tend to think that it can't possibly be. It just seems too "fluffy" or something, I guess. That this Great Spirit of Creation could also be One of such a Love that it could bring us out of our incompleteness and make us whole and show us each other and bring us together within that very Wisdom. So we remain broken. But I believe with all my heart that we can be fixed. Not just some, but all. And if I am wrong, then I suppose it doesn't matter, anyway.

There have been some really interesting thoughts posted on this thread. I find much to affirm. But I strongly believe that we have got to stop knocking one another over the head with doctrines that suppose the superiority of one group of folks over another. The problem seems to be that every time humanity begins to recognize this, we can't seem to help ourselves--we just make more doctrine, and then say it isn't from us. I don't know how we are going to get past that unless we allow one another the same freedoms we say our Teachers came to show us.

Now you have got me rambling, too, luna! Guess we are just a couple of rambling roses...or scrub vines...or morning glories...or any number of things, lol. We'll get there, growing toward the garden.

InPeace,
InLove

[Nick the Pilot]

Luna,

You said,

"I find it surprising to see forgivness considered undesirable."

--> That is the value of inter-faith dialogue. We are slowly learning what the other person is thinking.

"To narrow the question a bit, is it your impression that Christian theology has a negative view of humanity (i.e., we are sinners in need of salvation) or positive view of humanity (i.e., we were created in God's image)."

--> I am afraid I go with the negative view. As a matter of fact, I must confess that my colleagues and I have characterized Christianity as a religion based mainly on fear.

As a matter of fact, I do a lot of work helping ex-Christians get rid of their fear. Once they get rid of their fear, things go a lot better.

Theosophy teaches many of the same ideas as Christianity, but without the fear and the negativity. This is what I like about Theosophy.

I would like to take a moment, and emphasize what we have in common. You said,

"What do you mean no fall...look around...does this seem like all is paradise?"

--> On this point, Theosophy agrees with you. This is an ugly world, full of suffering. The Garden we left was much better. (You and I just disagree on why we left the Garden.)

[Nick the Pilot]

Luna,

Zeras said,

"... everyone is a sinner even a new born??"

--> This takes us into an entirely different criticism of Christianity. Is this something you also want to explore?

[Nick the Pilot]

"...anyone that doesn't believe in Jesus as their saviour is headed to hell."

--> This is another idea that goes on the list.