Is Christianity a Negative Religion?

[Nick the Pilot]

Quahom1,

I appreciate your taking the time to clarify your position.

"I thought I was answering a question you had about sin and children...."

--> I asked no such question. I am sorry if my declaration sounded like a question.

"...a child is not accountable until they know right from wrong..."

--> "...we are all born in sin..." "..in sin did my mother conceive me." I see these statements as containing a need for accountablilty, even if Christians do not.

"Christians are not that calloused to condemn the innocent..."

--> "...we are all born in sin..." "..in sin did my mother conceive me."

"...it wouldn't be, well, Christian!"

--> Which is why I am not a Christian. Please do not take offense. It appears Luna and Selbora are genuinely interested in why I am not a Christian, which is the only reason I am making these posts. No belittling intended.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Selbora,

Oh my goodness, this is in the Comparative Religions section. Let's put the term "Original Sin" aside, and go straight to the Bible. In Genesis 3:16 God places previously-unrequired pain-during-childbirth on Eve as punishment for her interaction with the Serpent. This is one example of what is refered to as "stain" or sin". I cannot fit Genesis 3:16 into my belief system, so I choose to be a non-Christian.

There are rewards and consequences for every action under the sun. Eve, allegedly turned away from God, her Maker (ignored His warning), and alligned with the deceiver. Then, she in her fear of being outcast and alone, beguiled her husband to violate God's law as well. In short, Adam chose his mate over his God (deliberately). There are many thoughts on why (the primary of which is he identified with his own flesh more than with God).

Me being a father, do not do well with my children turning their backs on me. There is a price to pay for such insulance. And it isn't the act, but the thinking behind the act. Furthermore, I would be remiss in my duties as a parent, if I did nothing about the rebelliousness of my children.

There is a mythos of the first woman being Lilith, who refused to submit to her husband. In short she rebelled and fled. If true, then the second woman Eve, needed a stern lesson (apparently), to remind her of the error of her ways, towards her Maker. As did her husband, who had to break a sweat just to keep his family fed.

Unfortunately it appears that the "lesson" is lost on us at large, until we are well into life, and wisdom of experience, and hard knocks...

v/r

Joshua

[InLove]

Psalm 51 is beautiful. The whole chapter. I might look at these passages and determine that David was indeed born into a "broken world". Nowhere in there do I read that God had any desire to condemn him to Hell for eternity from the day he was born into a broken plane of existence.

More 2c.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Quahom1,

I appreciate your taking the time to clarify your position.

"I thought I was answering a question you had about sin and children...."

--> I asked no such question. I am sorry if my declaration sounded like a question.

"...a child is not accountable until they know right from wrong..."

--> "...we are all born in sin..." "..in sin did my mother conceive me." I see these statements as containing a need for accountablilty, even if Christians do not.

"Christians are not that calloused to condemn the innocent..."

--> "...we are all born in sin..." "..in sin did my mother conceive me."

"...it wouldn't be, well, Christian!"

--> Which is why I am not a Christian. Please do not take offense. It appears Luna and Selbora are genuinely interested in why I am not a Christian, which is the only reason I am making these posts. No belittling intended.

That's quite fine with me. I personally cannot see those who do not know any better, to be condemned. Maybe because in my law enforcement experiences I know that even human law (US) will not condemn anyone for a wrong unless three criteria are met:

1. Must have the means

2. Must have the capacity

3. Must have intent

That came from Noahidic law (which pre-dates the 10 commandments and any Christian writings...).

A child, lacks the nature of all three, hence is within God's grace.

Once the concept of "guile" is demonstrated by a child...then I think grace is removed from the picture.

Even I being a "sinner" recognize that and whom that are without the "sin" I possess...

v/r

Joshua

[Nick the Pilot]

Quahom1

You said,

"I would be remiss in my duties as a parent, if I did nothing about the rebelliousness of my children."

--> I absolutely agree. And, again, since this is a thread on why I am not a Christian, I repeat that I see unfairness and escaping from responsibility in Christianity. These factors have driven me away from Christianity.

Inlove,

You said,

"Nowhere in there do I read that God had any desire to condemn him to Hell for eternity..."

--> Which is why I believe in Hell, but not for Eternity. Theosophists will burn in just as painful a fire as Christian sinners. (I can't wait for Thomas to get a hold of that. Ha.) An Eternal Hell turns me away from Christianity.

[Nick the Pilot]

Quahom1,

"means ... capacity ... intent...."

--> I see "born in sin" as contrary to these three ideas.

"A child, lacks the nature of all three, hence is within God's grace."

--> I just do not see how a child can be born in sin and in grace. My belief system requires one or the other.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Quahom1

You said,

"I would be remiss in my duties as a parent, if I did nothing about the rebelliousness of my children."

--> I absolutely agree. And, again, since this is a thread on why I am not a Christian, I repeat that I see unfairness and escaping from responsibility in Christianity. These factors have driven me away from Christianity.

Inlove,

You said,

"Nowhere in there do I read that God had any desire to condemn him to Hell for eternity..."

--> Which is why I believe in Hell, but not for Eternity. Theosophists will burn in just as painful a fire as Christian sinners. (I can't wait for Thomas to get a hold of that. Ha.) An Eternal Hell turns me away from Christianity.

Ahh! Now I think I understand where you are coming from! (had a V8) lol

How can a Christian devoid themselves of their sins, just by claiming Christianity as their faith???!!! As sin is a sin, and all who sin fall short (except for Christians)???

Am I close?

[InLove]

Hey Nick

I think (I may have overlooked something) that Selbora also expressed an interest in some more Orthodox views of Chrisitianity. Just as you and I mine different meanings from Biblical literature, we also read Thomas in a different light. I really think he is quite often misunderstood! A lot more open-minded than is often given due. Anyway, that is my peacemaking effort for the day. Gotta go save a rosebush.

InPeace,
InLove

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Quahom1,

"means ... capacity ... intent...."

--> I see "born in sin" as contrary to these three ideas.

"A child, lacks the nature of all three, hence is within God's grace."

--> I just do not see how a child can be born in sin and in grace. My belief sysem requires one or the other.

Born in sin, covered in grace...the "sin" is passed on to him/her by the parents. (I liken it to a defect that can manifest itself, if left untended for too long). At some point, the child will understand and deliberately take the sin on as their own.

It is NOT a deliberate sin that the child caused, or even thought of. Like a gene that is awry, it is simply there and the child will have to deal with it (the handicap). Either he/she overcomes it, or is taken in by it...but not immediately...

(I really like this dialogue Nick).

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hey Nick

I think (I may have overlooked something) that Selbora also expressed an interest in some more Orthodox views of Chrisitianity. Just as you and I mine different meanings from Biblical literature, we also read Thomas in a different light. I really think he is quite often misunderstood! A lot more open-minded than is often given due. Anyway, that is my peacemaking effort for the day. Gotta go save a rosebush.

InPeace,
InLove

Mix lime in the dirt...(trust me)

[Nick the Pilot]

"How can a Christian devoid themselves of their sins, just by claiming Christianity as their faith???!!! As sin is a sin, and all who sin fall short (except for Christians)??? Am I close?"

--> Close! Allow me to preface this with a gassho of good will and inter-understanding when I say,

I do not see how a Christian (or anyone else) can devoid themselves of their sins by means of a religious ritual (ritual is not really what I mean, but it is the best word that comes to mind right now.) All who sin do not fall short, but they will (in my belief system) get a chance to make up for each and every sin, no matter how long it takes.

(I hope I am not confusing you. I think we are are on the same wavelength of understanding. How do you see it so far?)

[Nick the Pilot]

InLove,

If I have misinterpreted Selbora post, I apologize.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

"How can a Christian devoid themselves of their sins, just by claiming Christianity as their faith???!!! As sin is a sin, and all who sin fall short (except for Christians)??? Am I close?"

--> Close! Allow me to preface this with a gassho of good will and inter-understanding when I say,

I do not see how a Christian (or anyone else) can devoid themselves of their sins by means of a religious ritual (ritual is not really what I mean, but it is the best word that comes to mind right now.) All who sin do not fall short, but they will (in my belief system) get a chance to make up for each and every sin, no matter how long it takes.

(I hope I am not confusing you. I think we are are on the same wavelength of understanding. How do you see it so far?)

Well the color spectrum is about right, refining the wavelengths themselves might take some synchronizing...(I'm thinking about what you said).

[Nick the Pilot]

Qualhom1,

Lunch time. I'll be back.

(I really like this dialogue too).

[InLove]

No apology necessary, Nick. Grabbing the lime stuff and donning the gardening gloves...