Intimations of the divine

[frogsong]

I am new to this site and have found reading some of the comments here interesting. So I am going to take the plunge and post some ideas for discussion.
I have spent many years considering what I might call intimations of the divine and what it means. Here you will find the very short version of those years. I hope at least a few will find departures here for contemplation. A note about pronouns: I use the pronoun “she” to refer to the divine simply as a way to emphasize a departure from traditional western traditions, saying nothing about the actual sex of the spirit.

Nothing is certain. We can only try to be honest.

The world is not divided. It contains vanilla ice cream and my experience of vanilla ice cream. And it contains myself and the divine spirit and as my consciousness is an emergent phenomenon of the things of the world, so the divine emerges from the world. The processes, energies, and things that make this emergence possible is a mystery. But somehow it happens, because you have the experience of reading these words.

We reach out to the divine through love. There is fear involved in this act for we must put aside all those things we have that we think keep us safe. In the end we must realize we are not safe. There is great joy in this realization.

And so, the divine spirit is not creator, but is created. She does not order the world nor does she make laws, or write books. But if we are quiet, we can hear her singing and that singing can inspire us. It is why we can do the right thing. What other reason could there possibly be?
When we, together with the divine, journey to make the world, there is peace and there is love, when we journey alone there is war and there is anger. We get to choose. Choose well.

I could go on some more, but that’s it, really. Let me know what you think

Dave

[StrangeQuark]

Originally Posted by frogsong

The world is not divided. It contains vanilla ice cream and my experience of vanilla ice cream. And it contains myself and the divine spirit and as my consciousness is an emergent phenomenon of the things of the world, so the divine emerges from the world. The processes, energies, and things that make this emergence possible is a mystery. But somehow it happens, because you have the experience of reading these words.

Interesting. My belief is panenthesitic so it does contain some of these same ideas. I believe that the divine is both immanent in nature and transcends it.

And so, the divine spirit is not creator, but is created. She does not order the world nor does she make laws, or write books. But if we are quiet, we can hear her singing and that singing can inspire us. It is why we can do the right thing. What other reason could there possibly be?
When we, together with the divine, journey to make the world, there is peace and there is love, when we journey alone there is war and there is anger. We get to choose. Choose well.

This is still a very thoughtful idea. I tend to think that the divine is both creator and created, because deity forms or shapes nature from its own substance (in my own panenthesitic view). However, I also think that the divine evolves or grows in some way and that it has not attained perfection. We and deity all reach toward it, and deity--out of love--wishes to bring us along.

Kind of vague, I know, but like you said, it is a mystery.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by frogsong

And so, the divine spirit is not creator, but is created.

Of course, you do realise that this therefore begs the quesiton "what created the spirit?"

I like to think of the analogy of electromagnetic waves for this - light, radio waves, infra-red, ultra-violet, x-rays, etc. The unique thing about these is that most waves require a medium to carry them. Without a medium to carry sound then a noise cannot travel, and the same for any other type of wave - excepting for the elctro-magnetic wave. This is unique is that it creates it's own medium - that's why light can propagate itself through the voids between galaxies. Somehow the notion of this I find indicative of the nature of God and the place of God in the universe - only the physical universe is like the self-created medium.

Just some thoughts - and thanks for the post, frogsong.

[frogsong]

Interesting responses. And yes the divine spirit is still forming. Don't look for perfection in the divine, but perhaps, you will find hope. Creation, for me, is not a religious question. It is physics. Maybe one day modern physics will have a tale or two to tell about beginings. For me the divine is about how things ought to be and not about how things are.
To further stir the pot I offer this, a poem about dancing with the spirit.


Dangerous Dancing

Dangerous dancing music
Angels play too clearly
For ordinary dancing
But for madmen only.

They heed the call to dancing,
Leave everything behind them
To dance forgotten bodies
Like breezes on the meadow
Like winter winds awailing .

Madmen and the angels
Dance their dangerous dances.
Knives of truth are flashing
Cutting deep inside the madmen
Blood mixing with the music

There is the
Dancing of the angels
And the laughter of the music
And the bleeding of the madmen;
But heed the call to dancing.
Become a bleeding madman
Dancing angel dances
To never be the same.

Pax vobiscum
Dave

[sag2008]

[hello' not sure if i fit in with what you all are particular talking about, but on my own studies and opinions and actual things happening in this world, i can tell you the word divine is a magical place it is a place that should never be taken or given to anyone on this earth, but when it does it becomes chaos