Interfaith Shoftim - Page 2

lunamoth · 09-06-2005, 04:30 AM

Great! I think I am getting the hang of it. I was a bit thrown off by the triennial divisions of the readings. I take it we are looking at the whole thing, not just that for this year.

dauer · 09-06-2005, 05:07 AM

The triennial readings are I believe something that was implemented in certain places from faily early on, but then fell into disuse, and now are used often by the liberal denominations as a way to shorten the Torah reading, but are not used everywhere. I don't believe it is practiced by any groups to only study what the triennial text is. But as we are using the weekly readings only as an existing structure to get us through the Torah, I don't think it should be much of a concern.

Dauer

dauer · 09-06-2005, 10:22 PM

I am going to introduce a new section of the text to look at:

Chapter 19
1 When the Lord your God has cut down the nations whose land the Lord your God is assigning to you, and you have dispossessed them and settled in their towns and homes, 2 you shall set aside three cities in the land that the Lord your God is giving you to possess. 3 You shall survey the distances, and divide into three parts the territory of the country that the Lord your God has allotted to you, so that any manslayer may have a place to flee to. 4 — Now this is the case of the manslayer who may flee there and live: one who has killed another unwittingly, without having been his enemy in the past. 5 For instance, a man goes with his neighbor into a grove to cut wood; as his hand swings the ax to cut down a tree, the ax-head flies off the handle and strikes the other so that he dies. That man shall flee to one of these cities and live. — 6 Otherwise, when the distance is great, the blood-avenger, pursuing the manslayer in hot anger, may overtake him and kill him; yet he did not incur the death penalty, since he had never been the other's enemy. 7 That is why I command you: set aside three cities.

8 And when the Lord your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you all the land that He promised to give your fathers — 9 if you faithfully observe all this Instruction that I enjoin upon you this day, to love the Lord your God and to walk in His ways at all times — then you shall add three more towns to those three. 10 Thus blood of the innocent will not be shed, bringing bloodguilt upon you in the land that the Lord your God is allotting to you.

11 If, however, a person who is the enemy of another lies in wait for him and sets upon him and strikes him a fatal blow and then flees to one of these towns, 12 the elders of his town shall have him brought back from there and shall hand him over to the blood-avenger to be put to death; 13 you must show him no pity. Thus you will purge Israel of the blood of the innocent, and it will go well with you.

Dondi · 09-07-2005, 01:20 AM

I wonder what life in a city of sanctuary is like. Everyone you meet has accidently killed someone. Every face you see is a constant reminder of what you did. No one speaks to anyone about what brought them there. A sense of shame shrouds the town. Business and daily affairs are done solemnly. I can't see much partying going on there.

dauer · 09-07-2005, 02:43 AM

I remember reading a tradition that these cities were managed by the levi'im. I don't remember where it comes from. Maybe gemara. Not sure. But I remember a drash, a homiletic, relating to the idea that these places were kept up by the levi'im, who are the holy guardians of the mishkan, the tabernacle, the place of the presence of God in the wilderness. So as a person goes to one of these cities of refuge, in their own wilderness, they are constantly surrounded by the bearers of the presence of the mishkan. I think there may have also been a drash connected to that on the word midbar but I'm not sure.

Also, according to the gemara, when there were not cities of refuge the individual would run into the Beit HaMikdash and grab the horns on the altar, and there is something they would say. I forget what it is. And they would seek refuge there instead for a length of time that would allow all of the conflict to boil over.

I find this particular set of laws fascinating. There was a cultural role, that of the "blood redeemer", and here that role is not being done away with. Human nature is respected. Something new is simply introduced.

Dauer

Faithfulservant · 09-07-2005, 04:49 AM

Quote:

14 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you and have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, "Let us set a king over us like all the nations around us," 15 be sure to appoint over you the king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a brother Israelite. 16 The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, "You are not to go back that way again." 17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.

18 When he takes the throne of his kingdom, he is to write for himself on a scroll a copy of this law, taken from that of the priests, who are Levites. 19 It is to be with him, and he is to read it all the days of his life so that he may learn to revere the LORD his God and follow carefully all the words of this law and these decrees 20 and not consider himself better than his brothers and turn from the law to the right or to the left. Then he and his descendants will reign a long time over his kingdom in Israel. (Deut 17:14-20)

Heres my take on this..

I believe God set a standard for the king for the people of Israel. .. When He said that the king not be a foreignor I believe is because foreign kings would not have the best interest of his people.. Just as he would not if he was interested in wealth and anything to do with worldly gains...suggesting a man that would be humble and loving of His people. Having their best interest at heart.. Sending the people to Egypt would be tatamount to sending them back into danger which is why the Lord said do not turn back that way again.. It was a warning.

We also have Gods requirement that the King be righteous... reading the law so that it was ingrained in him and not to put anything in his path that would cause him to stray.. the wives the horses.. the gold and silver.

Theres a prophecy in this that I can see..

Quote:

Then he and his descendants will reign a long time over his kingdom in Israel.

Thats a promise of God if Israel obeys Him in their selection of King. I hope to see all the promises of God as we continue this project.

Faithfulservant · 09-07-2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

"When the Lord your God has cut off the nations whose land the Lord your God is giving you, and you dispossess them and dwell in their cities and in their houses, 2 you shall separate three cities for yourself in the midst of your land which the Lord your God is giving you to possess. 3 You shall prepare roads for yourself, and divide into three parts the territory of your land which the Lord your God is giving you to inherit, that any manslayer may flee there. 4 "And this is the case of the manslayer who flees there, that he may live: Whoever kills his neighbor unintentionally, not having hated him in time past-- 5 as when a man goes to the woods with his neighbor to cut timber, and his hand swings a stroke with the ax to cut down the tree, and the head slips from the handle and strikes his neighbor so that he dies--he shall flee to one of these cities and live; 6 lest the avenger of blood, while his anger is hot, pursue the manslayer and overtake him, because the way is long, and kill him, though he was not deserving of death, since he had not hated the victim in time past. 7 Therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall separate three cities for yourself.' 8 Now if the Lord your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you the land which He promised to give to your fathers, 9 and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the Lord your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three, 10 lest innocent blood be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, and thus guilt of bloodshed be upon you. 11 "But if anyone hates his neighbor, lies in wait for him, rises against him and strikes him mortally, so that he dies, and he flees to one of these cities, 12 then the elders of his city shall send and bring him from there, and deliver him over to the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. 13 Your eye shall not pity him, but you shall put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with you.

I see God seeking to protect the people of Israel.. giving them somewhere to flee for safety. We also see the beginning of organized law enforcement in a sense.. The innocent have the means to flee to safety.. and the guilty have nowhere to hide basically a warrant for their arrest. Im very interested in numbers and the number 3 I think I would like to point out just for a mental mark. 3 cities then another 3 cities.. Does anyone else think that numbers in scripture mean something? We see another promise of God..

Quote:

and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the Lord your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three,

To me this is simple.. My father gives me a $3.00 allowance because he told me he would but then tells me that he will double that to $6.00 if I do all my chores without complaining and not talk back and just behave myself..

The promise of 3 was met and an additional 3 was promised if they continue to walk in his ways.. I will always be referencing earthly fathers with God because to me He is just that my heavenly Father and it helps me understand if I do that.

Sorry I got behind on where we were I hope ya'll dont mind that I played catch up.

pohaikawahine · 09-07-2005, 06:46 AM

chapter 19 .... hmmmmmmm .... there are a number of critical symbols in this section and also in the various postings above related to it ....

let me start by saying that on the hawaiian islands, in the old days, there were cities of refuge .... they are called pu'uhonua and basically these are places that those who disregarded traditional restrictions kapu-breakers, murderers, and other transgressors could hastily retreat to gain sanctuary from reprisal. Upon reaching the entrances to these compounds, often enclosed by extensive and massive stone walls, the refugee immediately gave thanks to the guardian deity .... the one seeking asylum usually remained several days and then returned home, absolved of his misdeeds by the gods .... fugitives from battle also fled to these places .... (note the reference to 'guardian deity' and the ability to leave the city of refuge) .... these were the only checks to the king's absolute power of life and death ...

now for the symbols and possible interpretations ....

"the place of the presence of god in the wilderness" .... in hawaii the top of the mountain (symbolic of the top of the head) is called "wao-akua" the forest of the gods .... it is a place so wild that man seldom is able to penetrate it .... the metaphor is that in meditation it is difficult to access this place ....

"gauge the distance and divide into three territories your land" .... there are three hemispheres of the brain which sometimes are referred to as the 'continents' or the 'islands' or could be 'cities' .... could three territories be related to different aspects of the brain or possible related to the three aspects of the soul which I read in Hebrew would be called nefesh (vital soul) ruah (spirit), neshamah (innermost soul) and each has its seperate abode ... I don't really know, but it is possible ....

"12 elders of this town" .... the circle of twelve is related to the 12 pairs of cranial nerves that operate the whole internal system of energy flow .... I also suspect that each elder represents one of the 12 tribes ....

"grab the horns on the altar" .... this is an interesting one because the inner sanctum of the brain, the holy of holies, is covered by a structure called the caudate nucleus and it looks like "horns" .... thus to grab the horns on the altar would be to go to this place internally .... so I have to think about the connection to a place of refuge and the horns on the altar ....would the inner sanctum of the brain, the altar, be the place of sanctuary ....

now this will seem a little far fetched, but to me it is related .... from the Zohar, basic readings edited by gershom scholem .... "how to stand before god" ...." but what if a man sins against the commands of the law, and then in repentance goes to offer service to god? verily, he is grieved of heart and penitent of spirit, and how then shall he show joy and singing? the truth is, hoever, that the priests and levites did it.... but in these days of no offerings, how is that man to manifest joy and singing who returns to his master heavyhearted and sorrowful, in tears and repentance? the answer is based on a secret. we have learned: a man should go into the synagogue to the distance of two gateways and then pray. this is a reference to the words of david "life up your heads, o ye gates" these gates are two grades, and they are found far within; they are the grades of mercy (hesed) and fear (pahad) and they are the gateways of the inner world.... hence in prayer a man must fix his thoughts on the holy of holies" .... perhaps the two gateways and the inner sanctum are the three territories or cities .... this would fit with the left and right hemisphere of the brain (the gateways) and the inner sanctum which is the altar protected by the caudate nucleus (the horns) .... the circle of twelve (pairs) surround the whole structure .... more to think about .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

Quahom1 · 09-07-2005, 07:16 AM

Chapter 19

Quote:

1 When the Lord your God has cut down the nations whose land the Lord your God is assigning to you, and you have dispossessed them and settled in their towns and homes, 2 you shall set aside three cities in the land that the Lord your God is giving you to possess. 3 You shall survey the distances, and divide into three parts the territory of the country that the Lord your God has allotted to you, so that any manslayer may have a place to flee to.

The command here is to place refuges in equadistant places, so that no matter where the individual seeking refuge is, he can easily get to a place of safety. The number of towns (three), has a symbolic meaning...but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Quote:

4 — Now this is the case of the manslayer who may flee there and live: one who has killed another unwittingly, without having been his enemy in the past. 5 For instance, a man goes with his neighbor into a grove to cut wood; as his hand swings the ax to cut down a tree, the ax-head flies off the handle and strikes the other so that he dies. That man shall flee to one of these cities and live. — 6 Otherwise, when the distance is great, the blood-avenger, pursuing the manslayer in hot anger, may overtake him and kill him; yet he did not incur the death penalty, since he had never been the other's enemy. 7 That is why I command you: set aside three cities.

Involuntary manslaughter should not be punished by death, yet the Lord is aware of man's desire to lash out at one who causes him loss, pain and grief, and because of this provides for the "victim of circumstances" safety. The Lord also implies that man is incapable of reigning in his own impulses (ergo, you can't control yourself, so I am stepping in).

Quote:

8 And when the Lord your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you all the land that He promised to give your fathers — 9 if you faithfully observe all this Instruction that I enjoin upon you this day, to love the Lord your God and to walk in His ways at all times — then you shall add three more towns to those three. 10 Thus blood of the innocent will not be shed, bringing bloodguilt upon you in the land that the Lord your God is allotting to you.

Clearly the Lord is offering refuge to more than the manslaughterer, but to the others, to keep them from committing a wrong in their rage. The Lord refuses to allow any to stumble in their walk with Him, and to give both sides time to cool off and come to their senses. The Lord is also extremely concerned with the land not being tainted with the consequences of man's potential rage.

Quote:

11 If, however, a person who is the enemy of another lies in wait for him and sets upon him and strikes him a fatal blow and then flees to one of these towns, 12 the elders of his town shall have him brought back from there and shall hand him over to the blood-avenger to be put to death; 13 you must show him no pity. Thus you will purge Israel of the blood of the innocent, and it will go well with you.

The Lord differentiates between First degree murder, second degree murder, and accidental manslaughter (much like the American court system today).

It is interesting to note that even though the man guilty of manslaughter is spared his life, he is still forced to go to a prison (of sorts), and loses his freedom to go where he will unabated. So he does pay a price.

v/r

Q

dauer · 09-07-2005, 08:38 PM

This is all beautiful, all of the contributions. I am going to bring us to the end of the parsha and then we can go back, but there's something I want to make sure we have time for because at least to me it is a peculiar episode.

Quote:

1. If a slain person be found in the land which the Lord, your God is giving you to possess, lying in the field, [and] it is not known who slew him,
2. then your elders and judges shall go forth, and they shall measure to the cities around the corpse.
3. And it will be, [that from] the city closer to the corpse, the elders of that city shall take a calf with which work has never been done, [and] that has never drawn a yoke,
4. and the elders of that city shall bring the calf down to a rugged valley, which was neither tilled nor sown, and there in the valley, they shall decapitate the calf.
5. And the kohanim, the sons of Levi, shall approach, for the Lord, your God, has chosen them to serve Him and to bless in the Name of the Lord, and by their mouth shall every controversy and every lesion be [judged].
6. And all the elders of that city, who are the nearest to the corpse, shall wash their hands over the calf that was decapitated in the valley;
7. And they shall announce and say, "Our hands did not shed this blood, nor did our eyes see [this crime]."
8. "Atone for Your people Israel, whom You have redeemed, O Lord, and lay not [the guilt of] innocent blood among your people Israel." And [so] the blood shall be atoned for them.
9. And you shall abolish the [shedding of] innocent blood from among you, for you shall do what is proper in the eyes of the Lord.

Quahom1 · 09-07-2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

1. If a slain person be found in the land which the Lord, your God is giving you to possess, lying in the field, [and] it is not known who slew him,
2. then your elders and judges shall go forth, and they shall measure to the cities around the corpse.
3. And it will be, [that from] the city closer to the corpse, the elders of that city shall take a calf with which work has never been done, [and] that has never drawn a yoke,
4. and the elders of that city shall bring the calf down to a rugged valley, which was neither tilled nor sown, and there in the valley, they shall decapitate the calf.
5. And the kohanim, the sons of Levi, shall approach, for the Lord, your God, has chosen them to serve Him and to bless in the Name of the Lord, and by their mouth shall every controversy and every lesion be [judged].
6. And all the elders of that city, who are the nearest to the corpse, shall wash their hands over the calf that was decapitated in the valley;
7. And they shall announce and say, "Our hands did not shed this blood, nor did our eyes see [this crime]."
8. "Atone for Your people Israel, whom You have redeemed, O Lord, and lay not [the guilt of] innocent blood among your people Israel." And [so] the blood shall be atoned for them.
9. And you shall abolish the [shedding of] innocent blood from among you, for you shall do what is proper in the eyes of the Lord.

How logical is the Lord. The closest city, most likely harbors the slayer of the innocent, hence that town is unknowingly tainted with the blood of the innocent. One bad apple can spoil a whole barrel full...

To compensate, and to show that the people of the town value the life of each man, a sacrifice is made on behalf of the dead, and on behalf of the living.

The unyoked calf and the untilled valley suggest total innocence of the harshness of life. Untainted if you will. Decapitating the calf is the spilling of innocent blood, and the washing of hands over it, seems to me like an oath that they saw nothing nor heard anything (for to have seen or heard, and done nothing is to be as guilty as the one who committed the crime). The priests are overseeing this ritual as the elders proclaim their innocence, and I suspect that any who might know of this crime, would not be able to continue...hence the Levites judging every lesion and contraversy. LOL, this is God's Lie detector system!

Who could face man and God and not confess, if some knowledge of the crime was there? If none confess, then the town is truly blameless. I say if none confess, because I think that under the circumstances the pressure placed upon all the town folk, would eventually render a confession from the guilty. If the death was an accident, then the town would know by virtue of the "victim of circumstances" fleeing to safe haven towns.

This seems to reinforce the concept of being one's brother's keeper.

Of course I could be all washed up.

v/r

Q

dauer · 09-07-2005, 10:41 PM

What I find so intriguing is the way the calf is killed. It's not the kohanim. It's the elders. Why does this specific situation require the elders and not the kohanim to decapitate the calf? Is it actually a qorban or is it something else? What is going on?

Dauer

Faithfulservant · 09-07-2005, 10:59 PM

1. If a slain person be found in the land which the Lord, your God is giving you to possess, lying in the field, [and] it is not known who slew him,
2. then your elders and judges shall go forth, and they shall measure to the cities around the corpse.
3. And it will be, [that from] the city closer to the corpse, the elders of that city shall take a calf with which work has never been done, [and] that has never drawn a yoke,
4. and the elders of that city shall bring the calf down to a rugged valley, which was neither tilled nor sown, and there in the valley, they shall decapitate the calf.
5. And the kohanim, the sons of Levi, shall approach, for the Lord, your God, has chosen them to serve Him and to bless in the Name of the Lord, and by their mouth shall every controversy and every lesion be [judged].
6. And all the elders of that city, who are the nearest to the corpse, shall wash their hands over the calf that was decapitated in the valley;
7. And they shall announce and say, "Our hands did not shed this blood, nor did our eyes see [this crime]."
8. "Atone for Your people Israel, whom You have redeemed, O Lord, and lay not [the guilt of] innocent blood among your people Israel." And [so] the blood shall be atoned for them.
9. And you shall abolish the [shedding of] innocent blood from among you, for you shall do what is proper in the eyes of the Lord.

Wow this one is intense.. there seems to be a lot of levels in this.. I also thought it was interesting that it was the elders and not the priests who sacrificed the calf. This is hard for me not to see a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ and the sacrifice He made by shedding innocent blood in order to make the guilty.. innocent where He says Go and sin no more. Its scripure like these that I wish I knew the culture more so that I could understand how significant it is.

Dondi · 09-07-2005, 11:28 PM

The guilt of the murderer is placced on the entire city that he comes from, since that murderer is unknown. There has to be some kind of price for the murdered victim. Therefore it is the elder of the city who must make an atonement for the guilt of innocent blood. It becomes a corporate sin. But it begs the question: If the entire city has to atone for the shedding of innocent blood, does this mean that the murderer, even if unknown, is atoned for also?

Quahom1 · 09-07-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dauer

What I find so intriguing is the way the calf is killed. It's not the kohanim. It's the elders. Why does this specific situation require the elders and not the kohanim to decapitate the calf? Is it actually a qorban or is it something else? What is going on?

Dauer

Kohanim preside over ritual gorban yes? However this is not a ritual sacrifice. This is an emergency sacrifice. As such it is not the priests that are required to preside over, but to judge over as the elders perform this unprecidented sacrifice. The elders of the town, not the priests are being held accountable. It is not the Kohanim's place to perform this function, but to observe the leaders to see if they are speaking the truth, or being deceitful.

The Kohanim remind me of Police "internal affairs" agents. Again, I think this is the "lie detector of the times".

Am I way off?

v/r

Q