Interfaith as a Faith

[DrFree]

For the past several years, I've been working with an interfaith organization in my home county. It spans Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Baha'is and others. (Sadly, when the organization decided several years back to admit a jewish temple, many of our so-called evangelical members left. Sigh!)

My little, local organization is certainly not the only interfaith activity. Google interfaith and you'll find a host of organizations dedicated to the proposition that the world is better off working together across the boundaries of faith. My personal list contains more than fifty, ranging from local groups to international initiatives.

Over this time I've come to the recognition that interfaith is my faith. Interfaith is for me not merely tolerating other faiths, not even merely respecting other faiths, not even promoting joint interaction. The true interfaith spirit is the recognition that all religious practices that promote love for everyone are essentially right, they are part of God's hope for humanity. (Not purpose! God's hope is that we freely choose a worthwhile purpose.)

To put it another way, every local faith develops its strategy for defining and dealing with the divine. That strategy derives from the mythology, history, language, and culture within which the faith emerges. Or to put it another way (using the language of Western religion), God reveals Godself to a faith using the stories accessible to the culture. And God will use different stories to a different faith.

The important thing, and history tells us it is the hard thing, is to recognize that the message behind our own stories is to be found in the stories told by others. Unfortunately, as the proverb goes, when the sage points at the moon, the fool watches his finger. People of one faith are so seduced by the wording of their own stories (they are the revealed truth) that they are offended by the different wording of the stories of other faiths (the superstitions of the devil).

The thing is, there is a common message behind these stories, namely, the Golden Rule. I've appended a number of versions from many different cultures. Take your pick as your favorite, but the wording (the story) is the finger, not the moon. The message, in my favorite language is to love everyone, for who they are, not for whom you want them to be.

The consequence of this message is that not only is each faith able to express its love with its own boundaries, it can express its love for those of other faiths without violation of its own message. From God's perspective, local faiths, which emerged out of the local circumstances of a people, merge into a spiritual ecosystem: Each individual faith provides its adherents with spiritual reinforcement through its common language, liturgy and lessons. Together these faiths not only reinforce the common message of love, they provide opportunities for growth in local faiths, especially in working out how to work together.

Seeing interfaith as a faith is not yet seen as a faith, a religion, in and of itself. And it is certainly a universal religion, if by that is meant a common set of stories and practices. But it offers perhaps the most feasible route towards the peace on earth that all religions proclaim.

Maybe it's time to give it a try.


Golden Rules from Many Cultures and Faiths

The Golden Rule takes many forms in many faiths and cultures. Here is a sampling of various forms.

1. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
   Matthew 7:12
   
   
2. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
   Luke 6:31
   
   
3. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
   Leviticus 19:18
   
   
4. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
   Mark 12:31
   
   
5. And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
   Mark 12:33
   
   
6. And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
   Luke 10:27
   
   
7. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
   Romans 13:10
   
   
8. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
   Galatians 5:14
   
   
9. If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
   James 2:8
   
   
10. Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do.
    Ancient Egyptian, The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant
    The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and
    may be the earliest version ever written.
    
    
11. One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts.
    African Traditional Religions, Yoruba Proverb (Nigeria)
    
    
12. Lay not on any soul a load that you would not wise to be laid upon you, and desire not for anyone the things you would not desire for yourself.
    Baha’I, Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings
    
    
13. And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself.
    Baha’I, Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, 30
    
    
14. Treat not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
    Buddhism, Udana-Varga 5,36
    
    
15. Comparing oneself to others in such terms as "Just as I am so are they, just as they are so am I," he should neither kill nor cause others to kill.
    Buddhism, Sutta Nipata 705
    
    
16. Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
    Confucianism, Analects 12:2
    
    
17. The essence of all religions is love, compassion, and tolerance. Kindness is my true religion. The clear proof of a person’s love of God is if that person genuinely shows love to fellow human beings.
    Dalai Lama
    
    
18. Compassion is not religious business, it is human business, it is not luxury, it is essential for our own peace and mental stability, it is essential for human survival.
    Dalai Lama, 1989 Nobel Peace Prize
    
    
19. If we really want happiness, we must widen the sphere of love.
    Dalai Lama
    
    
20. Tsekung asked, "Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?" Confucius replied, "It is the word shu--reciprocity: Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you."
    Confucianism, Analects 15.23
    
    
21. Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence.
    Confucianism, Mencius VII.A.4
    
    
22. The Sage...makes the self of the people his self.
    Daoism, Tao Te Ching, Ch 49
    
    
23. One should not behave towards others in a way which is disagreeable to oneself. This is the essence of morality. All other activities are due to selfish desire.
    Hinduism, Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva 113.8
    
    
24. This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
    Hinduism, Mahabharata 5,1517
    
    
25. Humanists acknowledge human interdependence, the need for mutual respect and the kinship of all humanity.
    Humanist Association of Canada
    
    
26. Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you.
    British Humanist Society
    
    
27. Not one of you truly believes until you wish for others what you wish for yourself.
    Islam, The Prophet Muhammad, 13th of the 40 Hadiths of Nawawi
    
    
28. One should treat all creatures in the world as one would like to be treated.
    Jainism, Sutrakritanga
    
    
29. What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
    Judaism, Talmud, Shabbat 3id
    
    
30. What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.
    Hillel, Judaism, Talmud, Shabbath 31a
    
    
31. We are as much alive as we keep the earth alive.
    Native Spirituality, Chief Dan George
    
    
32. Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it would become a universal law.
    Philosophy, Immanuel Kant, Categorical Imperative
    
    
33. Act so as to use humanity, whether in your own person or in others, always as an end, and never merely as a means.
    Philosophy, Immanuel Kant, Categorical Imperative
    
    
34. Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others.
    Philosophy, Socrates
    
    
35. I am a stranger to no one; and no one is a stranger to me. Indeed, I am a friend to all.
    Sikhism, Guru Granith Sahib, p. 1289
    
    
36. What you would avoid suffering yourself, seek not to impose on others.
    Stoicism, Epictetus
    
    
37. Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
    Taoism, Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien
    
    
38. We affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person.
    Unitarian Universalist First Principle
    
    
39. We affirm and promote justice, equity and compassion in human relations.
    Unitarian Universalist Second Principle
    
    
40. An' it harm none, do as ye will.
    The Wiccan Rede
    
    
41. That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self.
    Zoroastrianism, Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5
    
    
42. Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others.
    Zoroastrianism, Shayast-na-Shayast 13.29
    
    
43. Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes.
    American Proverb
    
    
44. Live and let live.
    American Proverb
    
    
45. If you love something, set it free.
    If it comes back, it will always be yours.
    If it doesn't come back, it was never yours to begin with.
    American Proverb
    
    
46. If you love it, let it grow.
    American Proverb

If you know of other versions, please let me know.

[Pathless]

I like this idea of interfaith as a faith. Your explanation of 'local faiths' creating an 'ecosystem' of interfaith resonates well with me. In my own life, I thrive on many different expressions of faith, and so I can certainly see the value of practicing interfaith as faith. Great concept; thanks for articulating it so well.

[pohaikawahine]

It's a beautiful thought, thank you for expressing it .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine

[bolo]

Yes, interfaith is a very good thing for all open-minded people, yet interfaith for tolerant religions with fundamentalist faiths that proudly claim to be the only true one is just plain silly.

Interfaith to such religions is not the same thing that it is to tolerant folk. They see it as nothing but a convenient ruse to gain more ground to promote their own particlar brand of intolerance from. I have seen this several times from so-called outreaches to various faiths.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by bolo

Yes, interfaith is a very good thing for all open-minded people, yet interfaith for tolerant religions with fundamentalist faiths that proudly claim to be the only true one is just plain silly.

Interfaith to such religions is not the same thing that it is to tolerant folk. They see it as nothing but a convenient ruse to gain more ground to promote their own particlar brand of intolerance from. I have seen this several times from so-called outreaches to various faiths.

I've done a lot of inter-faith work inthe past few years and well you know on the local level I've found that eventually some of the more fundamentalist types can soften a bit in time if they agree to collaborate with others and work for common goals say some kind of local services project. There can be a recognition that we all have to pull togetehr to achieve things...

If they draw back and refuse it makes them look elitist and snobby.

- Art

[InLove]

Hi and Peace to All Here (and welcome to CR, bolo)

Originally Posted by arthra

I've done a lot of inter-faith work inthe past few years and well you know on the local level I've found that eventually some of the more fundamentalist types can soften a bit in time if they agree to collaborate with others and work for common goals say some kind of local services project. There can be a recognition that we all have to pull togetehr to achieve things...

I once had a chance to participate in an interfaith community project. At the time, I was attending a fairly open-minded Methodist church. One day, the reverend announced that anyone who wanted to participate in a joint service with the local Buddhists (they are quite a significant presence in my town), was invited. I did not know at the time that it would lead to a charitable and nondenominational community endeavor. I wish I had known--I would have been there.

But I thought it was going to be a joint worship service. And I could not understand at the time that this was not going to hurt me--even though I had personally visited the Buddhist temple several times on my own, and had found the people there to be quite warm and welcoming. (I loved to look at the rock garden there.)

I am older now, and I have come to understand that, as long as I am true to the Spirit of Love inside me, and I do not profess with my tongue anything that I do not believe, interaction with people of other faiths can be enlightening and beneficial. Perhaps this approach is not for everyone, but for me, it is okay.

InPeace,
InLove

[arthra]

Nice reading your post "Inlove" I think you've understood that inter-faith work requires mutual trust, respect for each other and patience as well..

God's blessings!

- Art

[bolo]

Originally Posted by arthra

Nice reading your post "Inlove" I think you've understood that inter-faith work requires mutual trust, respect for each other and patience as well..

God's blessings!

- Art

Yes I think “respect” is the hot word herein. The problem is that absolutist faiths that claim to have the only worthwhile monopoly on truth and light and see others as satanically- inspired, due to bigoted teaching from their holy books, seldom respect others.

I mean adherents to a religion that claims to have the ‘only’ way to the godhead (i.e. so-called Gospel truth) can never really respect other faiths, not really if they are honest (which they are not). It just is not in their nature.

This is a large and ongoing problem for many more tolerant who naively people believe that its all about trust and respect and YES it is for these folks yet NOT for the fundamentalists that get in by the back door and seek to use the system as nothing but a platform to convert and manipulate.

And yes I know that many Christians and Muslims etc of a more let’s say ‘amicable’ nature may wish that it was not so but the evangelicals (the hardline right wingers) always have the last word as they actually ‘follow’ the doctrine of their faiths as set out in the scriptures accurately.

It is a problem.

[bolo]

Sorry for any typing errors in my last post but I was unable to edit for some reason!

[InLove]

Hi, and Peace--

It is good to speak with you again, Arthra--we don't do that often enough.

Originally Posted by bolo

Sorry for any typing errors in my last post but I was unable to edit for some reason!

No apologies necessary, bolo--I think perhaps we have all been there.

Originally Posted by bolo

Yes I think “respect” is the hot word herein. The problem is that absolutist faiths that claim to have the only worthwhile monopoly on truth and light and see others as satanically- inspired, due to bigoted teaching from their holy books, seldom respect others.

I mean adherents to a religion that claims to have the ‘only’ way to the godhead (i.e. so-called Gospel truth) can never really respect other faiths, not really if they are honest (which they are not). It just is not in their nature.

This is a large and ongoing problem for many more tolerant who naively people believe that its all about trust and respect and YES it is for these folks yet NOT for the fundamentalists that get in by the back door and seek to use the system as nothing but a platform to convert and manipulate.

And yes I know that many Christians and Muslims etc of a more let’s say ‘amicable’ nature may wish that it was not so but the evangelicals (the hardline right wingers) always have the last word as they actually ‘follow’ the doctrine of their faiths as set out in the scriptures accurately.

It is a problem.

I agree--it is a problem. But as you pointed out, "respect" is an important thing here. "Understanding" is just as important. I have learned much lately in regard to what most people mean when they use terms like "hardline right wingers". I have always thought that these people were a political faction rather than a true Christian "sect". But maybe I am wrong.

I used to think that the only way to deal with groups of people with ulterior or sneaky motives was to show them up, debate with them, personally attack them, prove them wrong, embarrass them publicly. But I have come to believe that there is a better way.

Love them. It might not be easy, but it works. If we respond in this way, then the "last word" which you say they always have will become something they must review in their hearts. I don't believe that anyone can continue to speak in the name of Truth and Love without Truth and Love convicting his or her spirit. Make them think about what they are doing in the name of the very Lord they profess. But don't shout. Whisper.

Jesus promoted forgiveness. He even said that we really don't know what we are doing.

I realize that my terminology is Christian. But bolo, I promise you that I mean what I say here, and I have no ulterior motives. I figure you know that, but I thought, for the sake of anyone reading this, that I had better say so! (I have a friend here in CR who is a lawyer--and a pretty darned good one if my guess is right. He has taught me much about the practicality of disclaimers.)

Anyway, I hope my words are a valid contribution to this thread. I'm trying.

InPeace,
InLove

[arthra]

My experience tells me we cannot write off "fundamentalists" or "evangelicals". To do so only hardens their attitudes and confirms their suspicions and they don't always have the "last word" either.

We need to appreciate that some of these groups are very "good" at what they do..serving people that the rest of society has ignored or forgotten.

I have amicable relationships with a fewe of these "evangelical" pastors and even prayed with them and they know I'm not a Christian but nonetheless we still cooperate on occasion ...so unless you try it I think you will just be shutting off a large and fairly important segment of the faith community..

You do this by the way by setting up a single issue coalition which means deciding on something that has wide support in a community...like establishing adequate shelter for homeless people or serving parolees or recreation for children in a project, etc.

- Art

[bolo]

InLove

I sense that you are a decent sort of person but unlike you I cannot “love” people that create war and misery and kill and torture in God’s name throughout history due to their assumed sacred beliefs. This may sound hard to some but I never appreciated the ‘turning the other cheek’ idea to people who tell me that they have the only truth and salvation and that anyone else, no matter how good a human being they may be, is definitely going to burn in hell. You may wish to “love” such fanatics that blow up buses and building and their masters in high places but I cannot or will not share your adoration for such types of fundamentalists. Nor can I love religious fanatics of ‘any’ persuasion that wait outside abortion clinics to attack or even kill nurses or doctors. I cannot love the ones that crusade to stop a terminally sick person from having the dignity to respectfully end their life either. The list is long and yes painful and yes there IS a time for love but not without respect and it is respect they fundamentalists do not have – they are totally deficient of it. They only seek to impose their religious – based ideals on the rest of us so why ever should we love them for that? My experience has been that they lie, cheat and denigrate anyone who stands in their way in much the same way as one of those jack-booted persons did in Germany’s 1930s. I would also not have loved those types either. I would rather give my love to anyone who is a true friend and that is good to me rather than help someone who believes that I am working for Satan just because I don’t agree with their religious ideals. Does that make me a bad person in your eyes?


Art

Yes of course they are good at helping persons but that is a part of their ‘mission’ to promote their holy crusade – grabbing the social and moral high ground is a large part of any fundamentalist quest. Surely you have noticed that this is precisely why we have such types, as I mentioned before, is control of large countries? They are expert at ‘helping’ people and by chance this gives them the positions of trust and power that they have always won, and always craved throughout history!

Don’t worry about their “suspicions” either because they have unreserved faith in the conviction that they are right and that everyone else of completely wrong. This is what they are taught to believe via their holy books. Yes one or two pastors or whatever may be polite to you but this will have certain ‘limits’ and they know full well that they are playing with theocratical fire and risking trouble from superiors (who are tied to immovable holy writ/doctrine) by doing this with anyone who fails to share their particular brand of one-sided fundamentalism. You have to keep in mind that for them to really accept the fairness of true and charitable interfaith liaison that this would clash with their theocratical convictions (following the premise that they must spread the ‘good news’ etc) that they must seek to evangelise others, as taught in their holy books. Their involvement at any level of interfaith gathering is based on MISSION (the quest to change ‘your’ mind and convert you to their righteous ways) not tolerance and reasonable recognition of other faiths and this is the big difference which many unquestioning types fail to recognise. I have had the luck to learn a lot of this via speaking with several ex-born again Christians who have become highly disgusted at the intolerance within that arm of religion.

We can trust and yes maybe even love those that deserve it but better to cut off a somewhat fixated ‘segment’ than kill the whole system.
---------------

PS. Been trying to post this for hours - what's up with the site???

[bolo]

We need to appreciate that some of these groups are very "good" at what they do.serving people that the rest of society has ignored or forgotten.

I have a “pastor” in my region who has bought a large amount of flats to house the homeless and many are drug addicts and drunks. This has upset many families that have to now put up with drunks et al urinating in their gardens and other such antisocial behaviour. This pastor is a leading light in a very evangelical missionary contingent which accept no other truth but that displayed by their own cultish grouping. They are anti-yoga, gay rights, euthanasia, abortion etc like all proper right wing outfits. Many of the unfortunates become a part of his belief system and that part of the deprived social structure is ripe for conversion and such bands always capitalise on this fact. You probably know the common stories of ex-junkies, drunks etc who gave their lives to Jesus after being found by so-called true believers at the height of their miseries? It amounts to a loaf of bread in one hand and a holy book in the other. I suppose you have heard such things before though? I appreciate anyone who does a good turn – but NOT at a price!

[InLove]

Hi, Peace All--

Originally Posted by bolo

InLove

I sense that you are a decent sort of person but unlike you I cannot “love” people that create war and misery and kill and torture in God’s name throughout history due to their assumed sacred beliefs. This may sound hard to some but I never appreciated the ‘turning the other cheek’ idea to people who tell me that they have the only truth and salvation and that anyone else, no matter how good a human being they may be, is definitely going to burn in hell. You may wish to “love” such fanatics that blow up buses and building and their masters in high places but I cannot or will not share your adoration for such types of fundamentalists. Nor can I love religious fanatics of ‘any’ persuasion that wait outside abortion clinics to attack or even kill nurses or doctors. I cannot love the ones that crusade to stop a terminally sick person from having the dignity to respectfully end their life either. The list is long and yes painful and yes there IS a time for love but not without respect and it is respect they fundamentalists do not have – they are totally deficient of it. They only seek to impose their religious – based ideals on the rest of us so why ever should we love them for that? My experience has been that they lie, cheat and denigrate anyone who stands in their way in much the same way as one of those jack-booted persons did in Germany’s 1930s. I would also not have loved those types either. I would rather give my love to anyone who is a true friend and that is good to me rather than help someone who believes that I am working for Satan just because I don’t agree with their religious ideals. Does that make me a bad person in your eyes?

bolo--the people you are describing here, to me, are political activists. They go by the name "fundamentalist Christians" just as there are political groups who claim to be "fundamentalist Muslims". In both cases, people who inflict the kind of violence I think you are talking about are not interested in the "fundamentals" of the faith they claim to represent. They are interested in political power, and they will use whatever name it takes to gain or exercise that power. Many people today cannot separate in their minds the true "fundamentalist" Christian (or Muslim) from these political extremists. That is the way the extremists want it. They love confusion--it works in their favor.

If you are experiencing attacks from extremist political groups, perhaps law enforcement would be on your side? But if you are dealing with true evangelistic Christians who need to work on their approach, then I maintain that mutual respect, patience, understanding, and love will eventually open eyes on both sides of your situation.

That said, should we "love" our enemies? Well, I believe so. But that does not mean that we let them break the law by committing premeditated acts of violence. If I say much more here, I will be getting too deep into Christian philosophy, and this is probably not the place for me to do that. However there is much of true Christian philosophy that does align with a more universal one.

And no, I don't for one second think you are a bad person. If I did, what would it matter, anyway?

InPeace,
InLove

[jiii]

originally posted by Bolo

Interfaith to such religions is not the same thing that it is to tolerant folk. They see it as nothing but a convenient ruse to gain more ground to promote their own particlar brand of intolerance from. I have seen this several times from so-called outreaches to various faiths.

originally posted by arthra

There can be a recognition that we all have to pull together to achieve things...
If they draw back and refuse it makes them look elitist and snobby.

Good point. Maybe those people are participating out of somewhat selfish desires, but at least they are willfully putting themselves into a situation where they will have to be honest about it one way or another. For someone that may never have had to be honest about it before...really and truly honest...that experience could very well bring about some precedented self-reflection. It's easy to ignore in the dark, but everything changes when brought out into the light of day.