interesting article

[9Harmony]

From an Indian newspaper:

http://tinyurl.com/ztt82

"All the world’s major religions have active mystical strains, sustained by
those who, in their hunger for God, penetrate through the creeds and beliefs
of religion to arrive at its living centre, the personal experience of God.

This is the chief distinction between religion and spirituality. Religions
accept the experiential truth of their founders unquestioningly.
Spirituality ventures into the very zone of the founders. Followers of
religion believe. Spiritual aspirants want to know. So if someone says she
believes in God, know that she is at best religious.

Which is not to discount religion. For believers, religion is a source of
strength. It helps build an identity and furnishes a viable code of values.
Above all, it is the springboard from which to leap into spirituality. Why
so? Because only spirituality yields the great truths of life and God and
affords the possibility of discovering your true Self. Only spirituality
holds the secret of self-realisation and self-transformation. While religion
is like being enclosed in a lovely, warm, cosy home, spirituality is like
breaking out into the fresh open air, knowing that all of it is home.

This is why only spiritually mature people can appreciate the commonalities
that link all faiths and paths, without being bound by any. We recognise
that there are many ways to reach God and that none need conflict with the
other. Each of us is unique, and we respond differently to different
catchwords, spiritual techniques or philosophies. The intellectual will
think his way to God, the artist will feel his way to God, the doer will act
his way to God, and so on. All these paths are necessary, for they cater to
the infinite diversity of human inclination.

Once we accept this, the fundamentalist will have no influence over us. Only
through spirituality can we truly understand our own religion. Until then,
as St Paul put it, we see through a glass darkly, not comprehending what we
see."

Discuss

[wil]

This is why only spiritually mature people can appreciate the commonalities that link all faiths and paths, without being bound by any. We recognise that there are many ways to reach God and that none need conflict with the other.

There is a little arrogance yet such beauty in that...but this is written by the same person..

So if someone says she believes in God, know that she is at best religious.

and

Once we accept this, the fundamentalist will have no influence over us.

but then

All these paths are necessary, for they cater to the infinite diversity of human inclination.

Tis tough to walk the line...

[Eudaimonist]

That's a good article. It's no wonder the percentage of self-declared "non-religious" in America is climbing. I don't think this is explained by the existence of more nontheists. The word "religion" is taking a beating in preference of words such as "spiritual" and "relationship".

Personally, I don't believe in "God", but attending to one's conscious mind in order to meet one's psychological needs, to grow as a person, to gain self-knowledge, to gain insights about life, etc, is a worthwhile endeavor. While I'm an atheist and a metaphysical naturalist, I regard myself as fully "spiritual" in this sense.


eudaimonia,

M.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by wil

There is a little arrogance yet such beauty in that...but this is written by the same person..Tis tough to walk the line...

We have all had our "bratty" moments.

[Jeannot]

The following may be relevant:


SUFI: The Immediacy of God


Karen Armstrong points out that the Kingdom of God "is not an experience for the elite or for monks only; the kingdom announced by Christ in the Gospels is a union with God that everybody can experience here and now, without having to wait until the next life." Mysticism is available to all – though some do seem to have a greater talent for it than others.

The Sufis, Islamic mystics, honor and exalt Jesus. Some go so far as to say "There is no God but al-Lah, and Jesus is his messenger." But basically, they have an appreciation for sincere approaches to God, no matter what the religious denomination.

Armstrong says "[The Sufis] also evolved the techniques and disciplines that have helped mystics all over the world to achieve an alternative state of consciousness. Sufis added the practices of fasting, night vigils and chanting the Divine Names as a mantra to the basic requirements of Muslim law." In this respect, they are not very different from Catholic, Orthodox, or Buddhist monks.

In the Gospel of John, Jesus say "The Father and I are one," reflecting the common experience of mystics with God. Similarly, the Sufi mystic Abu Yazid Bistami (d 874) felt that in becoming one with himself, he was simultaneously becoming one with God:

"I gazed upon al-Lah with the eye of truth and said to Him: 'Who is this?' He said 'This is neither I nor other than I. There is no God but I." Then he changed me out of my identity into his Selfhood.... Then I communed with Him with the tongue of His Face, saying, 'How fares it with me and with Thee?' He said, 'I am through Thee: there is no god but Thou."

There are perhaps as many experiences of oneness with God as there are mystics. Just as there are as many approaches to God as there are people. God is utter simplicity, and at the same time, infinite variety.

[wil]

very nice...

[Thomas]

I am always cautious of the separation of religion and spirituality.

They are the inner and outer face respectively. There is not one without the other. Any esoterist will tell you that an esoterism requires its exoteric containment.

And what better way than the ways the gods have made known to us?

In fact I would like to hear a spiritual master from any tradition decry religion in the way this article does - where is the Buddhist master who decries Buddhism? Where is the Sufi who belittles Islam? The Christian who does away with Christ?

As a master once said:
The way of the Sufi used to be a way without a name.
Today it is a name without a way.

This article disturbs me.

Thomas

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by wil

There is a little arrogance yet such beauty in that...

Hi wil,

yes, i noticed that trace of arrogance as well. though i thought overall the article was rather insightful.

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by Jeannot

There are perhaps as many experiences of oneness with God as there are mystics. Just as there are as many approaches to God as there are people. God is utter simplicity, and at the same time, infinite variety.

Nicely put!

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

Hi wil,

yes, i noticed that trace of arrogance as well. though i thought overall the article was rather insightful.

Agreed, quite so.

I especially like the emphasis on different paths to God, each of which has its primary exponent or example in the world today. Not religion or even religions ... but the idea of various human temperaments - seems to get more to the heart of who we are (individually) than some religions ever manage, at least with some people.

The Ray approach of esotericism acknowledges our differences of temperament and spiritual potential, while acknowledging a common source, and while also emphasizing that all Seven Rays are always present. Ray 4 will show up as artistic talent, and such is potentially a very sensitive and compassionate disciple. Ray 5 is responsible for material science, and the astronomer or geneticist who is passionate about his field will have many an inspirational breakthrough & insightful vision - owing to the same God within (in Ray 5 `mode') ... while the philosopher, who may have a strong Ray 3 presence will be capable of abstract thought and can explore the higher potentials of intellect as most of us can only dream!

Much as I am a believer in the validity of many paths to God, I must agree that a more enlightened understanding of the purpose of religions and the Spirit which is behind (or within) them ... has room for all the paths, and seeks to exclude none (within reason). As the saying goes, Truth is One, paths are many. But this doesn't mean we need to, or should, abandon our chosen or calling.

taijasi

[Vajradhara]

Namaste 9harmony,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

"All the world’s major religions have active mystical strains, sustained by
those who, in their hunger for God, penetrate through the creeds and beliefs
of religion to arrive at its living centre, the personal experience of God.

it would appear that this being is unaware of the Buddha Dharma and our teachings regarding supplication of deities and so forth.

there is no "hunger for God" to be found within the Buddha Dharma.

This is the chief distinction between religion and spirituality. Religions
accept the experiential truth of their founders unquestioningly.
Spirituality ventures into the very zone of the founders. Followers of
religion believe. Spiritual aspirants want to know. So if someone says she
believes in God, know that she is at best religious.

this seems to be semantical nonesense. to wit:

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Which is not to discount religion. For believers, religion is a source of
strength. It helps build an identity and furnishes a viable code of values.
Above all, it is the springboard from which to leap into spirituality. Why
so? Because only spirituality yields the great truths of life and God and
affords the possibility of discovering your true Self.

an interesting, if unevidenced, claim to be sure.

Only spirituality
holds the secret of self-realisation and self-transformation. While religion
is like being enclosed in a lovely, warm, cosy home, spirituality is like
breaking out into the fresh open air, knowing that all of it is home.

that doesn't sound very positive.

This is why only spiritually mature people can appreciate the commonalities
that link all faiths and paths, without being bound by any.

ah, well, i see

i am a religious being and, in apparant contradiction to this authors assertions, can appreciate the common elements betwixt religions.

We recognise that there are many ways to reach God and that none need conflict with the other.

some of us don't even think that such a thing is manifest so and, as such, are not engaged in any thing of the sort.

Only through spirituality can we truly understand our own religion.

that doesn't seem to be correct in the least. it sounds like the No True Scottsman fallacy i.e. if you don't "truly" understand your religion, then you are not a spiritual being. of course, one is left to wonder what would constitute a "truly" understood religious paradigm and who decides if it is properly understood or not.

Until then, as St Paul put it, we see through a glass darkly, not comprehending what we see."

Discuss

perhaps that is the case for the Christian paradigm, i have nothing to offer in that regard. however, within the overall auspices of the Buddha Dharma, there are various paths that a being can use to gain a valid cognition of the Dharma.

metta,

~v

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I am always cautious of the separation of religion and spirituality.

They are the inner and outer face respectively. There is not one without the other. Any esoterist will tell you that an esoterism requires its exoteric containment.

And what better way than the ways the gods have made known to us?

In fact I would like to hear a spiritual master from any tradition decry religion in the way this article does - where is the Buddhist master who decries Buddhism? Where is the Sufi who belittles Islam? The Christian who does away with Christ?

As a master once said:
The way of the Sufi used to be a way without a name.
Today it is a name without a way.

This article disturbs me.

Thomas

St. John of the Cross is a specific example of a mystic who also honors the religion.

[Thomas]

Vajradhara -

That is a fine critique.

Pax,

Thomas