In reality we own nothing!

[China Cat Sunflower]

Wait a minute. I'm existing in the present. In the present I own everything that I have posession of. I don't know about memories, those are captured reflections of the past, but if you look out in my garage you can see some of the stuff I own. So long as I keep my doors locked it's a pretty sure thing I'm going to continue to own my stuff. And In my memory I can remember when I bought this stuff that I still have. I mean, how complicated do we want to make this?

Chris

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Wait a minute. I'm existing in the present. In the present I own everything that I have posession of. I don't know about memories, those are captured reflections of the past, but if you look out in my garage you can see some of the stuff I own. So long as I keep my doors locked it's a pretty sure thing I'm going to continue to own my stuff. And In my memory I can remember when I bought this stuff that I still have. I mean, how complicated do we want to make this?

Chris

It's simple really. Ownership is tied to responsibility.

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

It's simple really. Ownership is tied to responsibility.

And responsibility is transitory and waxes and wanes with time and scale of reference. No matter how much we attempt to adhere to the "kiss" prime directive (I really follow the 'keep it simple stupid' principle more each day as I age) the world around us is just so much more complex than that. However, we can discipline ourselves to "believe" it is what we wish it to be in order to simplify our day-to-day living. I view that as one of G-d's great gifts to us.

I've been thinking a lot about the "lilies of the fields" parable while "doing" this thread. They really do not "spin nor toil" and yet they bless us with their presence and being. Neither are they "owned" nor "ownable" by anyone or anything. And yet they participate in "being" as actively and meaningfully as we "owners" do.

flow....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Wait a minute. I'm existing in the present. In the present I own everything that I have posession of. I don't know about memories, those are captured reflections of the past, but if you look out in my garage you can see some of the stuff I own. So long as I keep my doors locked it's a pretty sure thing I'm going to continue to own my stuff. And In my memory I can remember when I bought this stuff that I still have. I mean, how complicated do we want to make this?

Chris

Chris,

I guess the point of this exercise is that, what we "own" can dissappear in a New York second. So, in fact we really "own" nothing. Not even our lives. What it seems we are is, "stewards" of what has been given to us (or what we "earned"), and that we should consider life and everything about it as such, and treat all accordingly.

my thoughts (simplified)

v/r

Q

[arthra]

Quahom...

Could you expand on that phrase you used:

what we "own" can dissappear in a New York second.

Where did that expression "New York second" derive from?

- Art

[jiii]

This has been a most interesting line of debate and commentary.
For my part, I simply would like to reiterate that the original post in this thread didn't really address action and responsibility and what we should or shouldn't do and all the implications therein. A simple statement was made (to paraphrase): "I don't really own these things. Instead, God owns them."

Now, I think that there is something to be said for this. Is it a practical...a rational...way of thinking? Of course not. This goes without saying...though, admittedly, the members of this board have done a truly eloquent and succinct job of explaining exactly why it is quite impractical. Nonetheless, I stand firmly by the notion that there MUST BE ROOM in our lives, in our way of thinking, to allow for this sentiment. Not out of pity for religion, not because we don't want to hurt the namby-pambies feelings, not because we should lie to ourselves or deny our responsibility, but because throughout all of this argument and debate, it still stands to be a valid viewpoint in so far as one recognizes that there is more to this life than JUST an ego that can own and, in time, lose everything to which it lays claim.

I don't know if I saw a single response that noted that the viewpoints that "I own my things" and "God owns my things" (or nature, or tao, or what have you) are not necessarily mutually exclusive propositions! Yes, I certainly do own my car. In fact, I got in a fender bender just yesterday...you can bet my insurance company is not going to go after God for a detailed account of the scenario and a review of the damages. And they aren't going raise God's monthly payment, either. These are, most certainly, facts of life. But something is not final and open-and-shut simply because it is a fact. Even if that fact cannot, in any way, be reasonably challenged...it is STILL not the final word. Though, when I see that most responses have primarily focused upon the so-called "practical" uses of the sentiment, I guess I find this somewhat more understandable.

This seems to me to be same reason that philosophy gets such a bad rap in many circles. Everyone's always busy asking "What good is it? What does it actually do?" However, this is not the only way of looking at things. Must we be so very obsessed with action? Does EVERYTHING that is worth anything have to involve some kind of direct and corresponding effect in our lives that involves acting to get us something or to achieve something?

Furthermore, this is NOT just some hack attempt at trying to save one sentiment by declaring that it does not necessarily negate others. For, on one hand, we are people with concepts and rules concerning ownership and these rules cannot be denied. On the other hand, we are complex formations of earth and air that play dress-up everyday, gathering mass quantities of other things also made of earth and air that we pretend we can be apart from in order that we can wield absolute ownership over them. Of course, in due time all of the things we "owned" will either change shape and wind themselves back in the dirt, or their owners will kick the bucket first. Either way, the realization that "I" own this or that is a concept of markedly temporary validity. So, if we can't own our things forever...then who will? Who does the ownership get passed on to? It is the same idea that was expressed by a Native American by the name of Chief Seattle when he asked," Who can sell the air?" in a famous address to the burgeoning European society in North America. He was, ironically, discussing what he saw in "the white man" (now perhaps better termed 'the Westerner') as a terribly exaggerated and ferociously defended idea of ownership...one that denied unwittingly the fact that ownership is just a concept invented by man...nothing more. Of course, it has worth and commands respect as a concept that is universally accepted...but, it is STILL just somebody's idea, and it doesn't correspond to so-called "real life" anymore than the idea that God owns everything.

The funny thing is, the more a man comes to honestly and truly believe in the most sincere sense that some thing is ABSOLUTELY his, he will be inclined to invent all manners and reasons to viciously and ferociously keep these things at all costs...even when his losing them causes himself less violence and pain, even when he doesn't need such things at all or has no actual interest in them...even when his doing so only secures his ownership for yet another uncertain term that will again be challenged or just plain taken away by death or destruction of those things. Frankly, I think it might do us well to consider this sometimes. Sometimes the idea that 'God owns everything' reminds us of this...reminds us to ask at certain times just what our ownership of this or that is really worth or what it really means to say 'This is mine'!

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by arthra

Quahom...

Could you expand on that phrase you used:

what we "own" can dissappear in a New York second.

Where did that expression "New York second" derive from?

- Art

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe that Q's statement "in a New York second" is an adaptation of a popular R&B/Funk song lyric from the 70's or 80's, "In a New York Minute".

flow....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe that Q's statement "in a New York second" is an adaptation of a popular R&B/Funk song lyric from the 70's or 80's, "In a New York Minute".

flow....

Actually from the Eagles in 1987, I think.

[Azure24]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

So, in fact we really "own" nothing. v/r

This is wrong like i mentioned early there are things that we have that no one can take away. Such as opoinions and your beliefs.

Sayonara!

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste all,

interesting thread.

i own my actions, thoughts and words.

metta,

~v

Hi V,

Do you really own your actions, thoughts and words or are they merely borrowed images that appear and disappear as a vapor before you? From one perspective of consciousness what you say seem to ring true but from another it seems there is no 'you' to own anything. Just another view to consider.

Metta,
JosephM

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Actually from the Eagles in 1987, I think.

Thanks Q. It was Walsh, Henley, et al. I hate this getting old crap !

flow....

[wil]

So we essentially lease everything...temporary use...including this shell, the temple we call a body, and our mind...

[flowperson]

All things pass with time.

flow....