Impeach CheneyBush

[Pathless]

Former Senator and presidential candidate George McGovern writes about the importance of American citizens speaking up and supporting an impeachment effort against Bush and Cheney:

Why I Believe Bush Must Go
Nixon Was Bad. These Guys Are Worse.

By George McGovern
Sunday, January 6, 2008; B01

As we enter the eighth year of the Bush-Cheney administration, I have belatedly and painfully concluded that the only honorable course for me is to urge the impeachment of the president and the vice president.

...

Impeachment is unlikely, of course. But we must still urge Congress to act. Impeachment, quite simply, is the procedure written into the Constitution to deal with presidents who violate the Constitution and the laws of the land. It is also a way to signal to the American people and the world that some of us feel strongly enough about the present drift of our country to support the impeachment of the false prophets who have led us astray. This, I believe, is the rightful course for an American patriot.




Read more:
McGovern Speaks Out

[cyberpi]

Why impeach just one King, Dictator, Emperor, or President, when the error was in the election of one in the first place? No taxation without representation, and there is no representation left in these 2 bit elections. You think there is representation in impeachment?

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Why impeach just one King, Dictator, Emperor, or President, when the error was in the election of one in the first place? No taxation without representation, and there is no representation left in these 2 bit elections. You think there is representation in impeachment?

What would you suggest, cyberpi? I agree that individuals are under-represented and that democracy in the U.S. is a bad joke, if that is indeed what you are implying. Yet this impeachment effort is the best political initiative going. What would you suggest?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Pathless

What would you suggest, cyberpi? I agree that individuals are under-represented and that democracy in the U.S. is a bad joke, if that is indeed what you are implying. Yet this impeachment effort is the best political initiative going. What would you suggest?

I suggest the idea of impeachment in the 8th year is a political play.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I suggest the idea of impeachment in the 8th year is a political play.

Better late than never. Lying in order to rally a country behind an unjust war, crimes against humanity, stripping civil liberties, to name a few--these are things that the administration should be held accountable for.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Better late than never. Lying in order to rally a country behind an unjust war, crimes against humanity, stripping civil liberties, to name a few--these are things that the administration should be held accountable for.

I agree run them over the coals, but impeaching will not happen, and if it did, the system is to contrived to get rid of them both simultaneously, get rid of Bush you just put Cheney in power.

We impeached Clinton, it was done, but we didn't remove him from office, that is a whole nother step. We didn't impeach Nixon, he stepped down, neither of these characters will do that. The time frame left isn't even enough for it all to happen...

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by wil

I agree run them over the coals, but impeaching will not happen, and if it did, the system is to contrived to get rid of them both simultaneously, get rid of Bush you just put Cheney in power.

We impeached Clinton, it was done, but we didn't remove him from office, that is a whole nother step. We didn't impeach Nixon, he stepped down, neither of these characters will do that. The time frame left isn't even enough for it all to happen...

Blah blah blah blah blah, wil. Make some more excuses, why don't you?

Yes, Clinton went through the impeachment proceedings--and for what?!! SEX!!! A blow job!! Ho-NO!!! Not SEX!!! Awful, evil, filthy, dirty sex in the white house!! And oral sex at that!!! Felatio!!! Oh, the humanity!! IMPEACHMENT!!!!

Yet you have an administration that lies, lies, lies, persecutes Americans and prosecutes illegal foreign wars, and strips funding from countless domestic programs to channel it into bombs, missiles, automatic weapons, dumb war robots, swimming pools in the green zone while Iraqi civilians don't have drinking water or power, and what happens? The whole country chants nationalistic slogans for the majority of the time these immoral, arrogant criminals are in power, and the whole time the people repeating the fascist propaganda they are fed are being swindled, taken, lied to, stripped of their rights in the name of "freedom". Then, when at the last minute, people start waking up a little bit and, between yawns and sips of coffee, the mumbles calling for impeachment begin to echo and amplify, people pooh-pooh this effort as too late, naive, a political scheme, improbable, not worth the trouble.

F!cking stupid. America is populated by apathetic, immoral, spineless, selfish, weak fools. Assholes who don't want to make any effort unless it brings them a paycheck, people who wake up every morning and put on a blindfold, stick ipod ear buds into their ears, and skip down the street, going "La-La-La, I can't hear you. See no evil, hear no evil. La-La-La!! Supersize my fries. Can I get a latte with that?"

What a country. Great democracy. Televisionocracy populated by the easily placated, a bunch of feel-good junkies who just want to pretend all will be well, all will be well.

La-La-****in'-La.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Blah blah blah blah blah, wil. Make some more excuses, why don't you?

Namaste Pathless,

too funny. I make excuses for no one. I find it interesting you wish to spend millions on an investigation, convene a special prosecutor and tie up congress at this date instead of working on peace in the world or fixing our failing economy, different strokes for different folks.

I have no love loss or respect for Bush, Cheney or this administration or the congress for the past decade. But canning the whole lot is not the answer in my mind.

I can always be wrong but I believe Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, perjury. Don't mean to get facts in the way of your blood pressure going off the charts, and I don't really care what the sexual proclivities of our president are, but I am not in favor of anyone in power diddling the interns. Doesn't bode well for sending youngsters to Washington to see our gov't inaction.

I'm active politically my brother, and apologize if it upsets you that I won't waste my time or breath tilting at this windmill.

I was on the streets before, and during the Iraq war, and am absolutely ashamed in most cases at both the volume and quality of turnout during demonstrations and marches. So many people just don't get it. Gore lives off of big oil and hasn't sold any of the stocks that he has managed to see triple in value in the past dozen years, ( he manages well over a billion dollars worth now). Kerry lives in the lap of luxury off his vegetable fortune (ketchup), he marries well. We have very few choices in this world, Paul and Kucinich are similar in so many ways, both with great ideas and heart and passion that will go unnoticed to the masses.

Rallying around this windmill won't make a difference one iota in my mind. There aren't the votes needed to make it succeed, there aren't a third of the votes required.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Pathless,

too funny. I make excuses for no one. I find it interesting you wish to spend millions on an investigation, convene a special prosecutor and tie up congress at this date instead of working on peace in the world or fixing our failing economy, different strokes for different folks.

As I've said before in this thread, and elsewhere, spending millions on impeachment proceedings, if it is indeed that costly, is beside the point. We have spent and are still spending millions every day in Iraq. Surely it will not cost us anything near the $720 million we are currently spending every day to occupy Iraq to hold impeachment proceedings. So when you blame me for wanting to spend millions on impeachment, I hear you making excuses.

Originally Posted by wil

I'm active politically my brother, and apologize if it upsets you that I won't waste my time or breath tilting at this windmill.

You don't need to waste your time or breath, although you are, in your own way, when you continue to post on this thread with rationalizations and analysis as to why putting your name and voice behind an effort to impeach war criminals is a waste of time and non-productive. To read your words, you seem to believe that taking five minutes to sign an electronic petition,which you can do without even getting up from your chair, is not just a waste of your time, but somehow in opposition of all the other political and peace work you are doing. Don't apologize. Either do this thing or don't.

Originally Posted by wil

I can always be wrong but I believe Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, perjury. Don't mean to get facts in the way of your blood pressure going off the charts, and I don't really care what the sexual proclivities of our president are, but I am not in favor of anyone in power diddling the interns. Doesn't bode well for sending youngsters to Washington to see our gov't inaction.

Haha. Blood pressure. Good one. Way to bring up the facts, too. You know very well that Clinton's impeachment proceedings had their roots in a sex scandal. I would much rather have a president that has extramarital sex in the white house than one who lies, moralizes, bullies, and manipulates the country into wars in which millions of people suffer and die, and in which resources are squandered and exploited.

Originally Posted by wil

I was on the streets before, and during the Iraq war, and am absolutely ashamed in most cases at both the volume and quality of turnout during demonstrations and marches.

Yes, you mention this often on these forums. Good. Keep it up. I've also attended protests, but find that they don't do much good, at least around where I live. I think if I lived in a bigger city, my experience of that might be different.

Here is an interesting insight though: one of your chosen political tactics, protesting in the streets, seems impotent to me, living where I do, while you think that petitioning congress for impeachment is an impotent gesture, for reasons that are your own. The crucial difference I see between the two of us is that I am not here repeatedly trying to convince you of the futility of protesting, while the responses I consistently get from you in my political posts are rationalizations of why you won't support these kinds of actions. Your tone feels condescending to me, as well. After a while, those posts add up, and they piss me off.

Wil, go protest. Take it to the streets. Do your independent party thing. But don't belittle what I do here. I don't appreciate being patronized, being made to feel as if my ideas and values are somehow misguided or don't count or are doomed to fail.

You call me brother. Your words to me are indeed like a big brother or a father knows best type. I don't like that. For a while, I can ignore it and roll with it, but when you continue on with your smug self, I will go off on you.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Pathless

You don't need to waste your time or breath, although you are, in your own way, when you continue to post on this thread .... To read your words, you seem to believe that taking five minutes to sign an electronic petition,which you can do without even getting up from your chair, is not just a waste of your time. Don't apologize. Either do this thing or don't..... protesting in the streets, seems impotent to me, living where I do, while you think that petitioning congress for impeachment is an impotent gesture, ...After a while, those posts add up, and they piss me off. ... you continue on with your smug self, I will go off on you.

Namaste Pathless,

You are correct, I feel my five minutes clicking on a petition that will go nowhere is a waste of time. I also often wonder whether my time is well spent in protesting and civil disobedience.

I've got no interest in making you 'go off' it isn't my goal or my style. Nor have I intended my posts to sound condescending, I was simply stating my opinion, which I'll always admit could be wrong. I for one don't believe Clinton's crime was based on sex. It appears to me a husband with marital issues who used his power and position over a young woman who trusted him. She may have been interested in him, but using that situation and taking advantage of her, one in that office should be above that. Just as those in the current administration shouldn't use their powers to settle old vendettas or line their pockets or others for influence.

Only history will tell which president was more effective in this world. I for one hope that Iraq becomes a strong free nation and despite my opinions of the war and the current administration the citizens of that country appreciate the US and Americans in 50 years, similar to the results in Japan, Italy and Germany. (and not those Vietnam, Panama, Grenada......)

However as you wish I'll leave you alone to preach to your choir without any of my thoughts, good luck on your efforts.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by wil

However as you wish I'll leave you alone to preach to your choir without any of my thoughts, good luck on your efforts.

What choir? I don't hear a peep, hardly an amen.

[Pathless]

I am posting a copy of an e-mail I received from congressman Robert Wexler on the impeachment movement.

Originally Posted by Congressman Robert Wexler

Dear [insert your name here]

Our Constitution is under threat and the most basic principle of checks and balances is being undermined. Not since Watergate has a president so openly disregarded the will of Congress.

During hearings in the Judiciary Committee yesterday, I told Attorney General Michael Mukasey that I called for impeachment hearings because of the stonewalling and blatant abuses of the Bush Administration. He responded by stating that he will NOT enforce a contempt of Congress citation against Harriet Miers and White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten for refusing to testify before Congress. The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7M9sjRLCtQ

Alberto Gonzales may be long gone, but the Bush Administration continues its executive overreach with the new Attorney General.

We can debate the need for Impeachment hearings. We can argue its effects on the election or our agenda. But one thing is abundantly clear:

If Congress' right to require testimony is undermined, then our country's leaders - Democrat, Republican, or Independent - will be immune from accountability.
The power of the subpoena - to call officials before us - is one of the most fundamental safeguards in our system of government. To have it effectively discarded - by virtue of the President instructing Administration officials to ignore a congressional subpoenas and not even appear before Congress - is unprecedented. The idea that the Attorney General would willingly defend this position - despite Congress' constitutional right to call such witnesses, is outrageous.

Impeachment hearings could render this moot: The President, Vice President, and all officials under them would no longer invoke executive privilege. There would be no more smokescreens.

In one week, I will be delivering my letter calling for impeachment hearings to Chairman John Conyers. Already, 16 Members of Congress have joined my call, including 3 Judiciary Committee members. I am hopeful for more in the coming days, but it is important for you to reach out to your representative in Congress to express how you feel. You can view the current list of signers, here: http://www.wexlerforcongress.com/news.asp?ItemID=230

I do not know how Congress will react, but I do know this: I will pursue this course aggressively. I will not compromise away the constitutional role of Congress. Your support is invaluable. Please know that I am working everyday to ensure that the Bush Administration is held accountable.

Please continue to support this movement at www.wexlerwantshearings.com.

Yours truly,
Congressman Robert Wexler

[Pathless]

An impassioned Wexler delivered a powerful speech in Congress, producing in his hand a thick book that contained some 186,000 names of American citizens in favor of impeachment, received over only a few weeks. He estimates that, all told, nearly one million Americans have added their names and weights to petitions calling for the impeachment of Vice President Dick Cheney. He points out that only after impeachment hearings of Nixon began, did the Watergate Tapes emerge!

Wexler's Speech

A million Americans have already added their voices to this growing surge of support for impeachment. Our numbers are growing every day. This is a popular movement! This is direct action towards direct democracy! Now is the time to act! It is not too late to hold this administration accountable for the corruption and injustice that it has perpetrated. It is not too late, it can never be too late, to take action in holding our elected officials accountable. It can never be too late to stand up and act to repair the violations to the Constitution of the United States, to stand up and say we have had enough--no more lies, no more secrets, no more manipulation, no more terror perpetuated in the name of freedom. No more! No more! NO MORE!!



Wexler's Speech

[cyberpi]

Pathless,
I think the people need more involvement in the law making in congress, and involved in the decision making of the executive branch, and involved in the judgments of the judicial branch too. While there is a complaint of checks and balances within this elite minority that calls themselves government, in order for the constitution to not lose weight since inception, the number of votes in both the house and senate need to be 100 x's what once they were. There need to be 100 x's the presidents, the vice presidents, the various secretaries, etc... The sheer foolishness in handing a country over to any one man defies the science that I have learned, it defies the religions that I have seen, it defies commerce, it ignores and belittles the will of the people, and I believe it defies God. We do it because our dad's did it, and their dad's before them... and I see that is a senseless, senseless reason. If government or anyone wills to be a leader, then the people must make him their servant. More like a hired attorney or teacher. As a member of the people, I see how the government has assumed control. That said, I see greater faith between people in the election process and in the representation that does exist in the USA, than in many other countries. Why not improve rather than recede?

Pathless, you are providing credence to the belief that decisions are best made within one president or administration... you say the decision makers are bad and should be impeached, whereas I am saying that decision making should not be from one person or administration.

Especially in foreign affairs, trade agreements and otherwise, I see that the people must have raw, line item, voting power. Otherwise the affairs and the agreements are not really legal affairs and agreements between people. They are illegal... illegal before God. Government is a crook. It is NOT legal for two people to make an agreement, and then call it mine. It is not mine. When two people get married, is it their decision or is it the decision of their parents? Government quite literally tells people who and who not they are married to, across the borders. Nobody on the face of the planet will ever have that right, including government.

It is hard for me to conceive how things will change. I see that the capability for it has been provided. The communication technology is here. I frankly don't know what God's plan is, whether Earth is going to be like heaven, or become even more of a hell. Both, in a way, I suspect.

What I do know is that this year I am being called to court for not paying taxes. It was beligerance in a way, but not in the way that you might assume. I just hate the paperwork and did not want to spend the time with it. The reason they have called me to court is actually wrongful. I put some money into some stocks, traded it, lost it completely, and the IRS thinks I earned half a million from it. They don't have the information, and have assumed it is my responsibility to provide it to them. I did... I told them their accusations were untrue. They don't believe me. So, I am going to do my part for the people. I am going to go to court against the country and tell whoever will listen, that they are thieves for wanting to TAX me as their dad's taxed them. I am going to tell them that this government owns very little and has a debt that is not mine. The roads, the infrastructure was built by the people, and the people paid for it with money stolen from them by the government. Thieves... outright crooks before God. They do not have the right to take and steal their Taxes from people like me... I am going to judge them with words. I do not want to be responsible for their decision making. I do not want to be responsible for their debt. I can not willingly pay taxes. It is illegal... illegal before God. I will appeal to the highest court that there is, and it will behoove the lower courts to listen.

So Pathless, that is what I suggest. In the end if 'they', this monster that calls themselves government, wants to take from me, then they will receive a whole lot more than they have bargained for. Words. Words they had best listen to. I will pay whatever the country demands from me, and then some... but I will not be doing any paperwork until the signature of the people is on it. Not the signature of the government... the signature of the people. If you do not demand taxes from me Pathless, I am surely not going to demand them from you... my signature is NOT on those IRS forms. If you give to the government, you are NOT giving to me. I am a citizen of the Earth, and so is government, but one of US is behaving as a thief.

[Paladin]

Pathless,

I signed the petition after watching the Wexler video. I have some questions though, like, why isn't this advertised more? Is the media afraid to run the story? Why did Pelosi seem so bland about the whole thing? Or was that just my reading into it?