If you were to die right now...

[Manji2012]

Everyone now and then I have had encounters with people who consider themselves Christian and will ask me the question, "If you were to die right now, do you know where you will go?"

I remember my Christian friend telling me that a person can never know where they are going to go after they die in Christianity no matter what.

I am assuming that these people just ask this question because they want to present Jesus Christ as a way to salvation.

But, is it true that no matter where you look in Christianity, as far as Christianity is concerned, across the boards, nobody ever gets to know what happens to them after they die. They simply believe in Jesus, but although they believe, they do not know.

What is the Christian perspective, can you ever "know"?

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Manji2012

Everyone now and then I have had encounters with people who consider themselves Christian and will ask me the question, "If you were to die right now, do you know where you will go?"

I remember my Christian friend telling me that a person can never know where they are going to go after they die in Christianity no matter what.

I am assuming that these people just ask this question because they want to present Jesus Christ as a way to salvation.

But, is it true that no matter where you look in Christianity, as far as Christianity is concerned, across the boards, nobody ever gets to know what happens to them after they die. They simply believe in Jesus, but although they believe, they do not know.

What is the Christian perspective, can you ever "know"?

I can't think of anywhere in the New Testament where anyone is unsure of where they are going after they die.

I know where I'm going when I die. I know God. Jesus is my homie. He's the only person who can present me as faultless and sinless to God. God promises that anyone who confesses that Jesus is Lord and believes in him with a sincere heart your going to Heaven. However, if you are sincere and have a sincere faith, that faith will naturally produce good works, that's how you know if someone really is saved.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Manji2012

Everyone now and then I have had encounters with people who consider themselves Christian and will ask me the question, "If you were to die right now, do you know where you will go?"

I remember my Christian friend telling me that a person can never know where they are going to go after they die in Christianity no matter what.

I am assuming that these people just ask this question because they want to present Jesus Christ as a way to salvation.

But, is it true that no matter where you look in Christianity, as far as Christianity is concerned, across the boards, nobody ever gets to know what happens to them after they die. They simply believe in Jesus, but although they believe, they do not know.

What is the Christian perspective, can you ever "know"?

If they believe the bible is the word of God , and they read their bible , they will know what happens when they die , and they will know what the future holds out to them .

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by Manji2012

Everyone now and then I have had encounters with people who consider themselves Christian and will ask me the question, "If you were to die right now, do you know where you will go?"

I remember my Christian friend telling me that a person can never know where they are going to go after they die in Christianity no matter what.

I am assuming that these people just ask this question because they want to present Jesus Christ as a way to salvation.

But, is it true that no matter where you look in Christianity, as far as Christianity is concerned, across the boards, nobody ever gets to know what happens to them after they die. They simply believe in Jesus, but although they believe, they do not know.

What is the Christian perspective, can you ever "know"?

Manji,

Yes you can know....

Not because the Bible tells you so but because God reveales it to us by his Spirit if we seek the deeper things of God because it is known already in the Spirit. If you need the Bible to affirm, read the same thing here...

1 Cor. 2:9-10
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Notice hath is past tense. It is already revealed by his Spirit. Get out of the flesh of your physical eyes and ears and 'Realize' the Spirit and you will know the deep things of God. Figuratively, die to the flesh and re-identify with your true nature which in Christianity is Christ in you, your hope of glory.

Love and Peace,
JM

[Thomas]

St Irenaeus of Lyons says:
"those who have received and bear the Spirit of God are led to the Word, that is, to the Son, and the Son welcomes them and presents them to the Father, and the Father gives them incorruptibility"
(Demonst. Apost., 7)

The reception of the Spirit, and through the Spirit the Word, is the charism of faith. When you have it, you 'know' it — but it cannot be reasoned, explained, or transmitted to another ... you either have faith, or your don't.

Thomas

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Thomas

St Irenaeus of Lyons says:
"those who have received and bear the Spirit of God are led to the Word, that is, to the Son, and the Son welcomes them and presents them to the Father, and the Father gives them incorruptibility"
(Demonst. Apost., 7)

The reception of the Spirit, and through the Spirit the Word, is the charism of faith. When you have it, you 'know' it — but it cannot be reasoned, explained, or transmitted to another ... you either have faith, or your don't.

Thomas

That's right. You either decide to have faith or you don't. I guess that's why it's called a leap. I am incapable of faith it seems. I don't know what happens after we die. I don't see faith and knowing as synonymous.

I visited my brother's grave for the first time today. I left a crystal that I found when we were camping this last weekend. Mark and I found this place where you can find crystals just laying out on the ground. I know Mark's body is in a nice box there underground. I wish I could believe that there is some afterlife; some Valhalla or heaven. I wish I believed that he's up there somewhere in spirit looking down. Wishing isn't believing. I just don't know. I don't think I can ever know. The wanting isn't enough to make me leap.

Chris

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

That's right. You either decide to have faith or you don't. I guess that's why it's called a leap. I am incapable of faith it seems. I don't know what happens after we die. I don't see faith and knowing as synonymous.

I visited my brother's grave for the first time today. I left a crystal that I found when we were camping this last weekend. Mark and I found this place where you can find crystals just laying out on the ground. I know Mark's body is in a nice box there underground. I wish I could believe that there is some afterlife; some Valhalla or heaven. I wish I believed that he's up there somewhere in spirit looking down. Wishing isn't believing. I just don't know. I don't think I can ever know. The wanting isn't enough to make me leap.

Chris

You are absolutely right. Wishing is not believing, but KNOWING is. Do not equalize heaven with myth.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hi Karen, welcome back- I missed you!

I don't want to judge anyone's sense of knowing. Just for myself, I would say that conviction and confidence aren't the same as knowing. Knowing requires incontrovertible truth. It requires facts which cannot be assailed. I can't know what happens after death. I have no personal knowledge, don't know anyone personally who has died and come back to tell me.

Joseph said:

Yes you can know....

Not because the Bible tells you so but because God reveales it to us by his Spirit if we seek the deeper things of God because it is known already in the Spirit.

I don't believe that's knowing. The "Spirit" can be anything one wants to believe it is. That voice can say anything one unconsciously wants it to say. I don't know how one would ever be able to objectively separate that from all the other noises in one's head. I don't know how one could draw that line between the self and the other. Which is me, which is other? I can't tell.

Chris

[JosephM]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Hi Karen, welcome back- I missed you!

I don't want to judge anyone's sense of knowing. Just for myself, I would say that conviction and confidence aren't the same as knowing. Knowing requires incontrovertible truth. It requires facts which cannot be assailed. I can't know what happens after death. I have no personal knowledge, don't know anyone personally who has died and come back to tell me.

Joseph said:
Quote:
Yes you can know....

Not because the Bible tells you so but because God reveales it to us by his Spirit if we seek the deeper things of God because it is known already in the Spirit.

I don't believe that's knowing. The "Spirit" can be anything one wants to believe it is. That voice can say anything one unconsciously wants it to say. I don't know how one would ever be able to objectively separate that from all the other noises in one's head. I don't know how one could draw that line between the self and the other. Which is me, which is other? I can't tell.

Chris

Hi Chris,
Yes, knowing isn't believing. You can believe a lie and that doesn't make it true. 'Knowing' doesn't require belief. It is not a voice as you suppose. It is the essence of the Christ nature or the mind of Christ. It cannot be intellectualized or else it is just a concept even as I am making it now. It is a subjective experience that requires no proof because 'knowing is of the essence of God. It is everyones birthright. It is present with you right know and when conditions are right, it just 'happens' (poor choice of words but the best I can language) because it is there all the time but not 'realized' because of obstacles obscuring its (the mind of christ) presence. Kind of like the sun always shining because it is there but the clouds are obscuring it from sight.

Since you are on the path of discovery you are 'seeking' and you indeed 'will find' what you are looking for even though it may not be what you had perceived it to be. Seeking and finding are again poor linguistics on my part but so it is with verbal communications and the limitation of words.

By the way, Your brother PM'ed me for the first time right before (a day or 2) before he moved on. Nothing is lost of his essence. It would be impossible to be otherwise. Someday you will understand and in fact do now if you would identify with your true nature in Christ which is in God.

Love and Peace and Best wishes on your journey,
JM

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I don't believe that's knowing. The "Spirit" can be anything one wants to believe it is. That voice can say anything one unconsciously wants it to say. I don't know how one would ever be able to objectively separate that from all the other noises in one's head. I don't know how one could draw that line between the self and the other. Which is me, which is other? I can't tell.

Chris

Hi! Thanks for the warm welcome... but I'm really not back yet. I will be, just not now.

Again, you absolutely right. "Spirits" can say anything they please and sometimes they just "tell" you anything you want to hear.

Once you are a believer, with practice, you learn to hear from the Holy Spirit. You receive discernment and wisdom. It does take practice... there are many paths calling to you (spirits)...

Karen

[China Cat Sunflower]

Thank you for your kind sentiment Joseph. Let me ask a question: Is this Christ nature of which you speak, which informs one of things, self-evident without a prior predisposition toward it? Or does it follow from one's acceptance of things without proof? Because if one must subscribe to it without proof for there to be this knowing, then the knowing itself stems from the subscription to a theology with no objective basis. Do you see what I mean?

Chris

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Yes, knowing isn't believing. You can believe a lie and that doesn't make it true. 'Knowing' doesn't require belief.

Hi JM! Believing a lie is called deluding oneself. Believing in the Holy Spirit and all that entails is called knowing the truth.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by JosephM

By the way, Your brother PM'ed me for the first time right before (a day or 2) before he moved on. Nothing is lost of his essence. It would be impossible to be otherwise. Someday you will understand and in fact do now if you would identify with your true nature in Christ which is in God.

JM

Mark and I were groomed since birth to play an important role in the hierarchy of the SDA church. My father was very highly placed, and we were essentially little princes in waiting. In the last year of his life Mark decided to step into that role. I don't doubt his sincerity, but the fact is that a great deal of his motivation came from needing forgiveness for being a less than stellar father, needing my parents approval, wanting the attention which was his for the taking by accepting the role, and a need to make up for feelings of failure. Much of what he said here reflected his aspirations more than the reality of his life. He was not a vegetarian. He was not a strict sabbatarian. He was not even well versed in the theology he professed to believe. He had not made a serious, scholarly effort to understand the theological underpinnings of the dogma he accepted on faith. He took the easy way out all his life.

It is a great comfort to my parents that my brother came back to their religion and died an Adventist. They would like to use his death to pressure me to do the same. I'm not going to burst their bubble as far as he is concerned, and I'll accept the slings and arrows in silence to protect their feelings. I loved my brother more than life. I love him as much now as when he was alive. But I can't be dishonest with myself.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on a bummer. Please continue...

Chris

[pattimax]

Chris,

I wish I knew the right thing to say... I am just so sorry for what you endure.

Karen