If You Were God Part I: The Time to Come

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Well, I'd start by rapturing out all right wingers. I'd send them to a special conservative heaven, aka a cosmic quarantine ward, where they would happily pluck harps for eternity in some safe, and extremely remote location. Then, in the interest of mankind in general, I would forever outlaw rap, hip hop, country and western, and techno "music". I would resurrect Frank Zappa, and make him Lord of the physical universe. And then I'd pronounce it all good, grab a coldie, and head for the hot tub.

Chris

ROFL!

[dauer]

juantoo,

I guess if by us you mean me, well, I guess some of my raison d'etre is certainly challenging established ways of thinking, much in the tradition of Jesus, Abraham, the prophets of all religions, and the founders of some nations. I am of course, not claiming to be on the level of such people, but I believe that such activity is a necessary part of the growth and development of human civilization (and I believe the same is true for conservatism.) My sister gave my a bumpersticker once that said: "Different people change the world. Ordinary people keep it that way." It's usually not something I do intentionally. It truly is just the way I function.

But I'd like to think my more essential raison d'etre is simply striving to be joyful from moment to moment, striving to cleave to God from moment to moment, and striving to be a better person, however much I stumble.

Dauer

[flowperson]

Dauer/Chris:

You 'da men !!!

flow....

[17th Angel]

If I were a god... (well I am.)

HOWEVER!! If I were a god with super special powers. I would destroy all that didn't obey me... Well... I'd destroy all humans... If I had awesome powers and stuff why would I NEED humans? I would lack mercy and tolerance. But wouldn't lack in personal glory and treasures!

[dauer]

Alright, well, it's time for me to answer my question I think. What follows is not what I believe will happen or what I believe is ultimately the best possible reality or even necessarily what I hope will happen. Rather it is meant to convey a more subtle sentiment beyond the literal words, the heart, that I think can be found to some degree in all of these "time to come" prophecies if one looks hard enough, and the way in which I describe it right now is simply the image which speaks to me most strongly at this moment in time.

First, I want there to be some sort of figurehead to this change, even if this individual is only a mascot. And I want this person to tell a lot of good jokes (nothing too dirty) and stories, and hug everybody immediately. I want this person to listen, to really listen, when people talk, instead of waiting for an opportunity to speak. And I want this person to hear too. And I want this individual to be like a chiropractor of the soul. You go talk to this person, they make a few adjustments, give you some exercises to do, and you're in a better state, but not without work on your part of course.

And I don't want there to be anything magical or miraculous or supernatural about this person, because I think that would make all of their traits and behaviors that much less miraculous.

Edited to add (I also would want this person to have flaws, just like everybody else, so that this individual would be coping with what we all cope with. Maybe the person could even openly struggle with some things, even serious things.)

I want there to be as much variety as there is in religion now, if not more. But I want everybody to agree on one thing: no religion is wrong, although we may not want that religion for ourselves, and its system of ethics may even be a little different from our own, or the purpose it purports. And from that I want everyone on Earth to be able to respect and honor each other's belief systems.

I don't want anymore war. I want instead that humanity should be a true global community. And instead of a penal system, I want a rehabilitative system that recognizes a criminal is really someone suffering from dis-ease. And I do want there to be places too, for those who cannot be rehabilitated, but I want them to be more humane, because if someone can't be rehabilitated back into society, I don't think we can blame them for that.

And I don't want physics to change. I want there to be cures to all of the really terrible diseases though, the ones that take away those we love young, or cause us to live with crippling disabilities, or that turn our parents and grandparents into people who no longer recognize us, or no longer remind us of the able figures of our youth.

And people I would want to spend their time doing whatever they delighted in most, so long as they did no harm to others. Some might spend their time in meditation, others studying, others at the beach. I don't think it would be good if we no longer had obligations, to family, to community, and I don't think it would be good if there was no need to learn. But I would like technology to be advanced enough that we can all manage a four day work week, and money to be balanced enough that everyone is able to devote their three days off to what they find meaningful and/or enjoyable.

And I still want children to be children, to live in familial structures with parents, to go to school in order to learn, and progress until adulthood. It feels like that growth that happens is something essential, that shouldn't be traded away.

And I'd like that people live where they want to live, in isolation or with a community, and that all have the means to live in comfortable environments.

And I really don't think that this would come to pass overnight. But I think that when it did happen, it would be like the final hammer blow, the finishing touch that completes things, not that the world would be finished and we would no longer grow, but that at that time it would be recognizable and people across the globe could say, "We did it. We made it. We achieved it. We're here."

So those are descriptions that are really a snapshot of one way that at this moment I might want to picture it as, intended not to place emphasis so much on the specifics, but instead to point beyond the words at what is being related emotively. I hope it can serve as some inspiration or encouragement for those who have held back from sharing, but if not that's okay too.

Dauer

[lunamoth]

Sounds beautiful dauer! I want to live in your world.

[Paladin]

Dauer,

A beautiful image indeed!
This post of yours brings up an interesting struggle I have in seeing the world the way God must see it. A difficult enough task for a human, but the sages and mystics of the world have told us that everything is unfolding as it should, that "All shall be well and all manner of things shall be well" Even the Buddha is depicted as smiling though he has seen behind the veil of maya.
So why do I still perceive unrest? Why do I see suffering? This world that I percieve, (admittedly my vision is limited) so full of horrors alongside visions of pure bliss is far from being perfect.
I must have a lot of growing to do before I can see what the spiritual masters have seen.

Peace

Mark

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by dauer

Alright, well, it's time for me to answer my question I think. What follows is not what I believe will happen or what I believe is ultimately the best possible reality or even necessarily what I hope will happen. Rather it is meant to convey a more subtle sentiment beyond the literal words, the heart, that I think can be found to some degree in all of these "time to come" prophecies if one looks hard enough, and the way in which I describe it right now is simply the image which speaks to me most strongly at this moment in time.

First, I want there to be some sort of figurehead to this change, even if this individual is only a mascot. And I want this person to tell a lot of good jokes (nothing too dirty) and stories, and hug everybody immediately. I want this person to listen, to really listen, when people talk, instead of waiting for an opportunity to speak. And I want this person to hear too. And I want this individual to be like a chiropractor of the soul. You go talk to this person, they make a few adjustments, give you some exercises to do, and you're in a better state, but not without work on your part of course.

And I don't want there to be anything magical or miraculous or supernatural about this person, because I think that would make all of their traits and behaviors that much less miraculous.

Edited to add (I also would want this person to have flaws, just like everybody else, so that this individual would be coping with what we all cope with. Maybe the person could even openly struggle with some things, even serious things.)

I want there to be as much variety as there is in religion now, if not more. But I want everybody to agree on one thing: no religion is wrong, although we may not want that religion for ourselves, and its system of ethics may even be a little different from our own, or the purpose it purports. And from that I want everyone on Earth to be able to respect and honor each other's belief systems.

I don't want anymore war. I want instead that humanity should be a true global community. And instead of a penal system, I want a rehabilitative system that recognizes a criminal is really someone suffering from dis-ease. And I do want there to be places too, for those who cannot be rehabilitated, but I want them to be more humane, because if someone can't be rehabilitated back into society, I don't think we can blame them for that.

And I don't want physics to change. I want there to be cures to all of the really terrible diseases though, the ones that take away those we love young, or cause us to live with crippling disabilities, or that turn our parents and grandparents into people who no longer recognize us, or no longer remind us of the able figures of our youth.

And people I would want to spend their time doing whatever they delighted in most, so long as they did no harm to others. Some might spend their time in meditation, others studying, others at the beach. I don't think it would be good if we no longer had obligations, to family, to community, and I don't think it would be good if there was no need to learn. But I would like technology to be advanced enough that we can all manage a four day work week, and money to be balanced enough that everyone is able to devote their three days off to what they find meaningful and/or enjoyable.

And I still want children to be children, to live in familial structures with parents, to go to school in order to learn, and progress until adulthood. It feels like that growth that happens is something essential, that shouldn't be traded away.

And I'd like that people live where they want to live, in isolation or with a community, and that all have the means to live in comfortable environments.

And I really don't think that this would come to pass overnight. But I think that when it did happen, it would be like the final hammer blow, the finishing touch that completes things, not that the world would be finished and we would no longer grow, but that at that time it would be recognizable and people across the globe could say, "We did it. We made it. We achieved it. We're here."

So those are descriptions that are really a snapshot of one way that at this moment I might want to picture it as, intended not to place emphasis so much on the specifics, but instead to point beyond the words at what is being related emotively. I hope it can serve as some inspiration or encouragement for those who have held back from sharing, but if not that's okay too.

Dauer

Isn't dreaming special.

[dauer]

Isn't dreaming special.

Indeed it is. I don't believe it is coincidence that in the arrangement of the 13 articles of Jewish faith of Maimonides included in the siddur we find

"I believe with a complete belief in the coming of the Messiah and even though he may tarry I will wait for him, whenever he comes" To me for a while now it's seemed apparent that the reason this was stated so explicitly and so strongly is because of the power having faith in a utopian future for humanity can have, especially for a people who have undergone so much persecution. Personally I have no eschatological beliefs of my own, but as I say in my post, it's not about the literal language I use, but about the emotions it conveys. While specifics like "what food will we eat" and even more abstract notions are not always agreed upon, I think that the emotions, the wants, the needs, the drives, are much more universal.

Dauer

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Dauer,

A beautiful image indeed!
This post of yours brings up an interesting struggle I have in seeing the world the way God must see it. A difficult enough task for a human, but the sages and mystics of the world have told us that everything is unfolding as it should, that "All shall be well and all manner of things shall be well" Even the Buddha is depicted as smiling though he has seen behind the veil of maya.
So why do I still perceive unrest? Why do I see suffering? This world that I percieve, (admittedly my vision is limited) so full of horrors alongside visions of pure bliss is far from being perfect.
I must have a lot of growing to do before I can see what the spiritual masters have seen.

Peace

Mark

Hi Paladin,

Dauer's post, yes and yes, except......... this thing of advocating that God should have flaws..... I'd say the God known has had many flaws, perhaps has been too human, a God of perfection would surely enable more bliss to flow...

Maybe we could help create a more loving, compassionate, perfect God by our own perfections of same.

- c -

[dauer]

Ciel,

I wasn't suggesting God should have flaws. I said that the figurehead of a time-to-come, who I stated I didn't think should be supernatural, would feel more right with flaws, more relevant and real.

Dauer

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by dauer

Ciel,

I wasn't suggesting God should have flaws. I said that the figurehead of a time-to-come, who I stated I didn't think should be supernatural, would feel more right with flaws, more relevant and real.

Dauer

Hi Dauer,

But as representative is there any difference?

But your post is beautiful, whatever way because it goes beyond the "me".
It is outside it's self, it is subtle sentiment beyond words.

- c -

[dauer]

Ciel,

But as representative is there any difference?

I think there is, yes. But I come from a tradition that typically sees its prophets and leaders as human, and tends to point out the ways in which they were human, the ways in which they stumbled, that we might learn from them. David, for example, and Batsheva.

But your post is beautiful, whatever way because it goes beyond the "me".
It is outside it's self, it is subtle sentiment beyond words.

Thank you. I am glad you see beyond the particulars.

Dauer

[flowperson]

Dauer..I am identifying with your utopian image of the future. But there were lots of utopianist groups in the mid 19th century in America that came to naught, Fourierists, Harmonists, etc., not to mention those who founded and fought for Israel as a homeland only to watch it mostly become a fortress in the midst of hostility.

The universe has a way of turning dreams into mixed realities. IMO that's because the universe is 95% darkness and 5% light. Dreams come from the light I believe. But keeping this all in mind, it has been true until now that the dreamers and believers on Earth have always succeeded more often than those who intermittently come out of the darkness to kill dreams and progress. As a creative dreamer I choose to identify with your dreams and any others that dream the best for their fellow humans who fervently wish to progress together into a better future.

flow....

[wil]

Rumi's -How can we be polished if we can't take the rubbing?

I don't think G-d sees any evil, man's version of G-d at times is evil, but not G-d.

I've gone through as all of us many deaths in my family. Many bad times, debilitating illnesses, forclosures, divorce, losing everything, fires, floods, starting over...

I can never see the good in it all while I am in it. G-d can. Our souls are growing, learning, moving forward. Post script, I am alive and breathing. Post script for my loved ones that have transitioned...I don't know. Are they headed to a heaven, or reincarnated on earth, or back to ashes. I don't know. But I believe thier souls are still learning, and learned a lot from their time here in 3d and their passing to the next phase.

I can't see the good while I'm in it. But I know it is there, and I know we all grow from it, and in time I realize it is that very path that got me here, and with any changes to that path, things would not be as they are.

I think spirit is doing fine...that your beautiful utopian world is but a choice, and one for us to choose. Truth is we choose differently all the time, but the more we, the more I choose tolerance, the more I choose peace, the more I choose health, the more I choose love, the more I glorify breath, each breath, sight, each sight....

The closer we are to the utopia G-d intends for us, the closer we are to the utopia you describe...but if it were given...without effort, without choice...like a lottery winner we would lose it...we need to know that we have choice and choose it...every day, every minute, every second...

And we need all those around us to know we are making that choice..so when we wander off our path...we can be nudged back on...

You are G-d, in the image, with the power....just need to be aware of that our perceptions, thoughts, words and actions are constantly creating our world that our choices are either choosing the Utopia G-d has for us or as we condemn others we are maintaining the status quo.