I may be mistaken...

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

OK, cool! I had heard some vague references in this general direction before, usually dealing with Nicola Tesla, submarine communication and weather control... The other context in which I saw reference to this was the closing of the famous interview of Joseph Campbell by Bill Moyers, in which some (Buddhist?) monks were chanting the "Aum...", and it was stated pretty emphatically that it was done in harmony with the vibration of the earth (or was it universe?, I've forgotten).

The weather control thing comes from experiments done with light sensitive protein gelatin used to transfer photo images in the rotogravure printing process. A printing company in Munich wanted to know why they were getting inconsistent results. The thought was that the weather, especially the humidity, was playing a role in goofing up the quality of the printing. The company engineer made a list of the dates when the results were unsatisfactory and compared them to the meteorological data but couldn't find any kind of relationship. So he decided to examine the weather conditions one or two days after the printing and discovered that the gelatin seemed to be reacting one or two days before a weather event.

So this engineer guy Hans Baumer set out to discover what sort of natural phenomena occur with and preceding certain kinds of weather events that might have an effect on the gelatin. He discovered that the electromagnetic impulses in the earth's atmosphere had a determining effect on weather patterns. He discovered that they occur in seven narrow bandwidths, the lowest being 4150.84 hertz, the highest 49810.08 hertz. The interesting thing is that the frequencies occurred at the points where the tones of the earth day primal tone scale should be in a diatonic, naturally tuned scale. So, the rotation of the earth is creating these natural overtones of it's scale in the atmosphere where they manifest as electromagnetic impulses that show up in certain signature combinations when certain kinds of weather events occur.

Obviously one can extrapolate the idea of controlling the weather through manipulation of the spheric impulses, but the more interesting thing to me is that the protein molecules in the gelatin were reacting to the impulses in advance of the change in atmospheric conditions. If you think about how DNA and RNA work there are some fascinating connections to be made which I'm not smart enough to explain.

The monks are actually intoning C sharp which is the tone of the earth year 36 octaves higher. The fundamental tone on the sitar is C sharp at 136.10 hertz. It's called the sadja tone. So when a sitarist is playing, or the monks are chanting Aum, what they're actually doing is grooving with the earth year tone.

I'm not certain I am willing to fully surrender the metaphysical with this observation though. Quite the contrary...it could as easily be that this "harmonic vibrational structure" allows for the metaphysical to interact to some degree with the material plane. A lot I would surmise depends on what frequency the metaphysical operates on, and what harmonics can be achieved.

I'm not at all implying a disconnect between the physical (vibrational in this example) and the metaphysical. On the contrary, I'm proposing that they are complimentary aspects of the same natural processes. Plug the harmonic vibration model into the metaphysical symbolism and see what kind of groovy connections happen. Like, apply it to story of Noah and the rainbow that was the symbol of God's promise. What does the structure of rainbows say about the metaphysics of the symbol?

Chris

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Tao!

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I found your post most interesting and inspiring. Resonance and sound fill the universe, even the Big Bang has its echo drifting in our bandwidths. The celestial harmony however, to our ears at least, is a cacophony of superfluous noise. Not to say I give it no value, for it is interesting to listen to the so called 'background noise' and it certainly makes me long for and find a place in a much bigger picture than I can without....

I know this is addressed to China Cat, but I want to join you in saying that China's post was quite interesting and inspiring. Certainly a great contribution to this discussion!

A thought occurred to me, that a "cacophony of superfluous noise" might equate fairly well with "white noise," itself an interesting yet soothing blend of notes on the scale.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The ratios do seem important to us, our ears certainly appreciate certain ratios, bpm's or whatever. Some sounds, natural or man made just seem to lift us while others take us down. It's a poorly understood phenomenon.

By "poorly understood phenomenon" I presume you mean there isn't a whole lot of science to support the idea that sounds might influence us? As China Cat alluded to, I do think there is a body of "thought" given over to the concept though, in music theory. I have seen oblique reference to some studies within psychology dealing with the impact of sounds on our psyche, but I have not taken the effort to pursue the matter more fully and chase source papers. Point being, there may not be a wide general body of knowledge, but there are "specialists" who do look into this aspect of influence on humans...

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The sound you get in most cathedrals for example is quite unique, and the ratios of space are more or less uniformly adapted to take advantage of this. And as many were constructed before modern accoustical statistical knowledge was ever dreamt of, its a remarkable feat of both thought and engineering.... or sublime good luck... that we see this.

I wasn't there as an engineer to design the various cathedrals, mosques, temples and such that have been built through the centuries...but I suspect sound amplification by stone in certain patterns was probably discovered pretty early on. There is a really neat place to visit in Cincinnati, Ohio, a train station. Built in the 1930's, with Art Deco styled architecture, a truly beautiful place to see in it's own right. Just inside the main entrance is an arch in the form of a semi-circle. A little known secret is that a person can stand at one end of this arch and whisper, and a person at the other end of the arch can hear you quite clearly, while persons walking by underneath have no idea a conversation is even taking place. I suspect the sound conducting power of stone has been known since humans began placing large stones atop one another. (Afterthought, amphitheaters) Modern acoustics takes advantage of this knowledge, so that something like the Hollywood Dome or Carnegie Hall can be built and do what they do so well. So, while I am hard pressed to prove it, I sense that Gothic era cathedrals as well as other even earlier "religious" monuments did take advantage of sonic conduction, and that certain proportions seem to predominate in this regard. I don't have that Humanities book in front of me, I returned it when I finished, but it seems certain forms, shapes and proportions were preferred when dealing with such grand structures. Aside, but relevant, is that Native American belief is that stone is alive, and even speaks. There is an obscure passage in the Bible that intimates this as well, that "even the rocks will cry out!" (I will look it up for reference if you like, pressed for time just now.)

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I have to agree with Juantoo that your belief that we cannot associate our modern thinking with ancients to be untrue. The most apparent example to myself being the native Australian concept of the Dreamtime. This is a non-monotheist appreciation of the connectivity of all things in all times in all places. Its an ancient quantum theory. I think the Tao to be similar too. I will try at some point soon to expand and provide references on this soon over on the Zero Point thread.

I look forward to reading this!

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, China Cat!

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

The weather control thing comes from experiments done with light sensitive protein gelatin used to transfer photo images in the rotogravure printing process. A printing company in Munich wanted to know why they were getting inconsistent results. The thought was that the weather, especially the humidity, was playing a role in goofing up the quality of the printing. The company engineer made a list of the dates when the results were unsatisfactory and compared them to the meteorological data but couldn't find any kind of relationship. So he decided to examine the weather conditions one or two days after the printing and discovered that the gelatin seemed to be reacting one or two days before a weather event.

So this engineer guy Hans Baumer set out to discover what sort of natural phenomena occur with and preceding certain kinds of weather events that might have an effect on the gelatin. He discovered that the electromagnetic impulses in the earth's atmosphere had a determining effect on weather patterns. He discovered that they occur in seven narrow bandwidths, the lowest being 4150.84 hertz, the highest 49810.08 hertz. The interesting thing is that the frequencies occurred at the points where the tones of the earth day primal tone scale should be in a diatonic, naturally tuned scale. So, the rotation of the earth is creating these natural overtones of it's scale in the atmosphere where they manifest as electromagnetic impulses that show up in certain signature combinations when certain kinds of weather events occur.

I wasn't aware of this, cool!

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Obviously one can extrapolate the idea of controlling the weather through manipulation of the spheric impulses, but the more interesting thing to me is that the protein molecules in the gelatin were reacting to the impulses in advance of the change in atmospheric conditions. If you think about how DNA and RNA work there are some fascinating connections to be made which I'm not smart enough to explain.

Not being an electrical engineer, and Tesla being a relatively enigmatic figure, with some of his work apparently still classified if I am to believe the questionable sources I have read, I hesitate to proceed. So, take the following with a grain of salt...

We have a pretty good body of textbook material for school kids regarding those scientists that played with Direct Current; Franklin, Faraday, Edison, Bell. What we don't have is much to say who first played with Alternating Current. Seems that is where Nikola Tesla enters the picture. Basically everything that uses AC stems from his research, down to and including IC chips (how they work, not how they are made). Tesla built the first hydroelectric power plant at Niagara Falls. And Tesla dabbled with frequencies. Rumor has it, and as of yet I have nothing to confirm, that one of Tesla's projects for the Air Force, set up in the mountains at Colorado Springs, was a device that aimed at storm clouds and was able to manipulate them. That is what I was hinting at with weather control.

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

The monks are actually intoning C sharp which is the tone of the earth year 36 octaves higher. The fundamental tone on the sitar is C sharp at 136.10 hertz. It's called the sadja tone. So when a sitarist is playing, or the monks are chanting Aum, what they're actually doing is grooving with the earth year tone.

Puts a whole new spin on it!

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I'm not at all implying a disconnect between the physical (vibrational in this example) and the metaphysical. On the contrary, I'm proposing that they are complimentary aspects of the same natural processes. Plug the harmonic vibration model into the metaphysical symbolism and see what kind of groovy connections happen. Like, apply it to story of Noah and the rainbow that was the symbol of God's promise. What does the structure of rainbows say about the metaphysics of the symbol?

OK, symbolism is not my strong point. Hints won't help here (I am gender challenged in this regard), really strong hints won't help. Clue me in as to what you see, please?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Yes, I do find it interesting among Christians of my acquaintance how this same scenario plays out..."once saved, always saved," "all you've got to do is believe!," "works won't get you to heaven..." It seems to me so ironic how many of these same people expressing these things have little problem with dealing deceptively with others..."oh, that's OK, all I gotta do is say a prayer of forgiveness and I'll be sparkling clean again..." I really, really don't think it works that way.

Doesn't it just drive you nuts, the sheer arrogance of it. My hubby is a firm believer that all Muslims (and only Muslims) will go to heaven. If they sin they can either repent or be punished in hell for a period and then by virtue of being a Muslim will be forgiven and allowed into heaven. When my husband expresses these views (which he is occassionally still daft enough to do in my earshot) I tend to suggest rather strongly he reads the Quran. We are told very clearly that each man and woman will be judged as an individual based on our deeds during our lifetime. No-one can intercede on our behalf and we are even told that certain excuses will not work (eg our fathers did it this way). G-d has been very specific, if it says no in the scriptures and you do it then prepare for a very unpleasant time, no matter what your fathers, scholars or leaders tell you to do and no matter how many times you half heartedly say sorry. Do these people think G-d has a memory problem? How can anyone believe that a person, by virtue of following one religion or another, despite their deeds, will go to heaven. While a decent, humanitarian person that spends their life helping others will, by virtue of being the wrong religion, go to hell. This is not the G-d I believe in, pray to or have read about in any scripture. The G-d I love is not small minded, petty or easily fooled and He knows our hearts better than we do.

Salaam

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

How can anyone believe that a person, by virtue of following one religion or another, despite their deeds, will go to heaven. While a decent, humanitarian person that spends their life helping others will, by virtue of being the wrong religion, go to hell. This is not the G-d I believe in, pray to or have read about in any scripture. The G-d I love is not small minded, petty or easily fooled and He knows our hearts better than we do.
Salaam

That's the ticket.

s.