I Don't Support the Troops

China Cat Sunflower · 05-05-2006, 08:03 AM

Three years after President Smirky McFlightsuit stood on the deck of the USS Abe Lincoln under a giant banner reading "mission accomplished", and 2400 dead service men and women later we are still fighting for "freedom" in Irag. I'm afraid that we have embarked on an unwinnable war for which there is no conceivable end. I can no longer seperate my love of my country from my disdain for what our military is doing. I can no longer support the troops.

Chris

Dor · 05-05-2006, 08:42 AM

Well I am glad those troops and all the ones that came before them(yes I do fall in that category as a VFW) gave you the chance to actually say that or type it out loud....believe it or not there are places you would still be persecuted and killed for making remarks about the leader....but as some one who has helped keep the freedom you are enjoying let me enjoy mine for a min and say if you dont like it dont let the door hit you on the ass. Sorry but if you knew anything about the military and those people over there they dont have a choice in the matter and deserve our support no matter what we think about the people in charge or the situation over there. I will always support the troops even if I did not support the President or the War.

Faithfulservant · 05-05-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

I will always support the troops even if I did not support the President or the War.

Ditto

Im sorry but Im embarrassed and ashamed by this thread

taijasi · 05-05-2006, 11:12 AM

Tempted as I am to just lay it on the line, in such a way that probably just infuriate a bunch of people, I'll resist that temptation and say - Chris, I'm with you 100%.

And for the record, I'll third what is said about supporting our troops, since they of all people could use our love, and our prayers, right about now.

Our misguided administration, however, and this Phoney War, are a disgrace to everything American!!! They more than anyone need Wisdom and the Voice of Reason, therefore, they too deserve our prayers.

Most of all, it is UN Support (in this case, via prayers for empowerment, and the sending of Love, as well as the continued education of an often apathetic populace) upon which we should focus ...

taijasi

wil · 05-05-2006, 03:31 PM

G-d Bless our whole world....no exceptions.

I wish the troops weren't there. But as G-d is in all things, somehow in this as well.

Too bad we created Sadam and Osama in the first place.... as long as the US foreign policy includes 'the enemy of my enemy is my allie' then we will continue to create these ventures in the future...and continue to send off our sons to kill other sons...

YNOT · 05-05-2006, 03:57 PM

Any President who claims to love his troops wouldn't put them into harm's way by placing them in a conflict based upon faulty, cherry-picked intelligence, no ties to 9/11, no weapons of mass destruction (actually they were there in the past b/c the U.S. gave them the weapons to defeat the Iranians during the Iran/Iraq war but the WMD's have been gone for years and the U.N. has been saying that all along) and without a proper exit strategy or proper troop levels. Why this President hasn't gone on a perp-walk and isn't sitting in a jail cell is mind-boggling to me.

I love our troops and the best way to love them is to not have them die unnecessarily. That is all they ask of us.

Quahom1 · 05-05-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Three years after President Smirky McFlightsuit stood on the deck of the USS Abe Lincoln under a giant banner reading "mission accomplished", and 2400 dead service men and women later we are still fighting for "freedom" in Irag. I'm afraid that we have embarked on an unwinnable war for which there is no conceivable end. I can no longer seperate my love of my country from my disdain for what our military is doing. I can no longer support the troops.

Chris

That of course is your right Chris. I on the other hand, do support our troops. I've been there twice, and will go back again in a heart beat. One of my own sons is over there, and the other will be there in six months. They volunteered for the job on their own volition.

Regardless of what the media paints, the truth is that the common Iraqi and Afghani citizen does not want us to leave (not yet), as they struggle to learn just exactly what a democratic type system is, and how to make it work.

They do not want our type of governmental system, but they do want a version of it with Middle eastern flavor, but getting the basics of democracy understood and in place takes time.

If we were to withdraw right now, the impact and ramifications resulting would be tremendous and felt around the world. Siriya, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon would go in and tear Iraq to pieces. Kuwait would become a smear on the map. The US could forseeably be crippled economically, due to the severe energy shortage we would have to deal with, and the flatlining of the Dollar's value.

Our children's future would be questionable at best.

By stating your non-support of the troops, you add insult to the injuries and deaths of our young men and women who sacrificed themselves. You may not care for the decisions made by our government, but I find it harsh and calloused to critisize the soldiers, sailors and airmen who represent you and me, fighting for our way of life to continue.

They don't make the political decisions, the government does, and the military carries out the orders. The governemt is a body of the people, by the people and for the people. So the true blame lies with you and me, and every one who voted for that government.

If you think you don't have the power to change our government, you have forgotten about the governor of California being recalled overwhelmingly a few years ago. And there was nothing he could do to stop it (though he tried like hell).

No, my friend, it isn't the troops' fault or the government representitives' fault...it is Joe Citizens's fault.

We may have lost 2400 military souls over three years, but we lost over 3000 innocent civilian souls in little over three hours a few year back. The Iraqis and Afghanis have lost over 35,000 innocent civilian souls, by their own ethnic peers.

I know you once stated that you write what you think at the moment, and such is subject to change at any given time later, but once words are spoken or written and are read or heard by others, they can't be taken back.

And Let me tell you something, my friend. Words can damage and destroy quicker and more thuroughly than any bullet or bomb. The fastest way to demoralize a military man, is to be condemned by his own people. Yet they still struggle to do the job, and protect the very citizen that condemned them.

my thoughts

v/r

a military man, and fiercely proud father of two military sons...

lunamoth · 05-05-2006, 05:30 PM

Great post, Q.

luna

AletheiaRivers · 05-05-2006, 05:45 PM

I wish that events had worked out differently and had allowed a peaceable solution to the situation in Iraq, but they didn't. And despite this, I still support our troops. I live very close to an air force base and many of my neighbors are in the military. They are my friends and I want them to come home safe. I appreciate that they put their lives on the line for me everyday.

YNOT · 05-05-2006, 05:50 PM

We can support the troops and not the war. The troops are not to blame. I agree with Q.

YNOT · 05-05-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Three years after President Smirky McFlightsuit stood on the deck of the USS Abe Lincoln under a giant banner reading "mission accomplished", and 2400 dead service men and women later we are still fighting for "freedom" in Irag. I'm afraid that we have embarked on an unwinnable war for which there is no conceivable end. I can no longer seperate my love of my country from my disdain for what our military is doing. I can no longer support the troops.

Chris

HAHAHA!!! President Smirky McFlightsuit is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. If you came up with that one you need to do some professional stand-up. I would buy a ticket.

Dor · 05-05-2006, 07:35 PM

Once again Q you can have everything I feel in a post and say it so well...Thanks for that post!

taijasi · 05-05-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

They [the troops] don't make the political decisions, the government does, and the military carries out the orders. The governemt is a body of the people, by the people and for the people. So the true blame lies with you and me, and every one who voted for that government.

If you think you don't have the power to change our government, you have forgotten about the governor of California being recalled overwhelmingly a few years ago. And there was nothing he could do to stop it (though he tried like hell).

I follow your logic from start to finish, Q, and basically I agree with you/it ... however, the breakdown occurs in the part I highlighted. This government ceased to do its job properly a long time ago, imo, and for more than 6 years we've been under rogue leadership - wherein "for the people" is a totally empty, meaningless phrase.

The president's approval rating has hit an all-time low; as CBS puts it:

"Only 33 percent approve of his job performance, Mr. Bush's lowest approval rating yet in CBS News polls. A majority – 58 percent of those polled – say they disapprove of the president." (May 1, 2006 article)

As for the war ... (same source)

MR. BUSH’S HANDLING OF IRAQ

Approve 30%
Disapprove 64%

And another useful poll result:

DIRECTION OF THE COUNTRY

...................... Now ... 3/2006 ... 10/2005 ... 4/2005
Right direction ... 24% .... 28% ........26% ........ 32%
Wrong track ...... 71 ...... 66 .......... 69 ........... 62

Seeing the trend here, folks?

Indeed, let's Bring the Boys Back Home ... ALIVE ....

Maybe if we cleaned up our country, fed our own homeless, reduced our military spending, gave every willing & able body a JOB, and took the same measures here to guarantee "free & fair elections" which we seem so concerned about in Iraq ... maybe just maybe we wouldn't look like such damn hypocrites to the rest of the world!

You'll find 8,039 individual posts here by people who apparently feel the same way: http://www.sorryeverybody.com. Have a quick glance at #8039 ... especially those with military background/interest/inclinations. That man (and others) does indeed make me proud to be an American, and proud of the US Armed Forces.

'Nuff said.

pacifist, peacenik prayers,

taijasi

wil · 05-05-2006, 08:26 PM

To be clear...I wish we wouldn't have gone...

But we did, and we can't leave. It would be a bigger shame to leave the country in a mess.

During the first gulf war after we took out military, gov't, and infrastructure targets we went after sewage treatment plants and the water supplies.

During the sanctions we wouldn't allow parts to fix these as they could have also been used as parts for weapon manufacture...

We effectively set that country back further than Sadam moved it forward...not to mention encouraging the south to revolt against gov't and then leaving them high and dry for slaughter..

We owe it to the people and the world to get that country back on its feet...to late to not give them a chance...with the right work over the next few years this could be a shining star of achievement in a couple of decades.

An aside, how come we can build pipelines, oil refineries, and drill wells over there in a couple years...but haven't been able to do the same here for two decades? We don't care about red tape and our enviorenmentalists aren't concerned about over there...but are about the artic circle? I'm so confused.

Quahom1 · 05-05-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

I follow your logic from start to finish, Q, and basically I agree with you/it ... however, the breakdown occurs in the part I highlighted. This government ceased to do its job properly a long time ago, imo, and for more than 6 years we've been under rogue leadership - wherein "for the people" is a totally empty, meaningless phrase.

The president's approval rating has hit an all-time low; as CBS puts it:

"Only 33 percent approve of his job performance, Mr. Bush's lowest approval rating yet in CBS News polls. A majority – 58 percent of those polled – say they disapprove of the president." (May 1, 2006 article)

As for the war ... (same source)

MR. BUSH’S HANDLING OF IRAQ

Approve 30%
Disapprove 64%

And another useful poll result:

DIRECTION OF THE COUNTRY

...................... Now ... 3/2006 ... 10/2005 ... 4/2005
Right direction ... 24% .... 28% ........26% ........ 32%
Wrong track ...... 71 ...... 66 .......... 69 ........... 62

Seeing the trend here, folks?

Indeed, let's Bring the Boys Back Home ... ALIVE ....

Maybe if we cleaned up our country, fed our own homeless, reduced our military spending, gave every willing & able body a JOB, and took the same measures here to guarantee "free & fair elections" which we seem so concerned about in Iraq ... maybe just maybe we wouldn't look like such damn hypocrites to the rest of the world!

You'll find 8,039 individual posts here by people who apparently feel the same way: http://www.sorryeverybody.com. Have a quick glance at #8039 ... especially those with military background/interest/inclinations. That man (and others) does indeed make me proud to be an American, and proud of the US Armed Forces.

'Nuff said.

pacifist, peacenik prayers,

taijasi

Hi Taj,

There are 300,000,000 people in the United States, 170,000,000 of them with the power of the vote. Polls are samplings of less than 1/10th of one percent of the voting public, and are subjective (to say the least). In 2004, the public voted, and the majority as well as the electoral votes put the people we have in government where they are.

That my friend is not the government's fault.

While the United States reduces its military spending as you suggest, bear in mind that China has quadrupled its military spending, and is amassing a 20,000,000 man military. Pakistan and India are now nuclear. Iran and North Korea are hell bent and determined to become nuclear, and intend to be able to "reach out and touch someone", namely US.

Venezuala has gone renegade and owns one of the biggestest oil export Companies in the world (Exxon). Bolivia has taken over the natural gas and oil fields in its land, that were developed by, you guessed it - US investors.

If we lose the oil we need, or if those less than friendly to the US get control of that oil, we will be paying 5-10$ per gallon of gas, that will crush our economy. We do not have the mass transit infrastructer that Europe has. We don't have the land or climate to grow sugar cane as an alternate fuel source like Brazil. We don't have enough land to grow the amount of corn we'd need to make the fuel we need to sustain our current standard of living. We do not have the refining capacity we need to sustain our current economic state, we do not have Nuclear power sufficient enough to take some of the burden off (all because no one wants it in their back yard).

Russia can not account for One percent of it nuclear arsenal (that is one percent of 6000 known war heads).

No country in this world ever survived as an independent entity by being passive (Tibet comes immediately to mind). The only thing keeping Taiwan from being annexed by China is Taiwan's willingness to fight to keep their way of life, and the US's promise to back Taiwan up.

This isn't a political war we are fighting Taj. This is literally a war for our survival. I'm afraid however, that it is going to take an American city being destroyed, or the bread belt being contaminated, or our drinking water to be made toxic, for some people to wake up and realize, this is for keeps.

As far as feeding our homeless, lowering our unemployment, etc., this country has one of the lowest homeless rates for an industrialized nation of our size. Our unemployed rate is at 4.8% (compared to France and Germany's rate of 10 to 15%). The US worker takes the least amount of vacation time (less than 10 days per year on average), compared to the 45 to 60 days in European countries. The US worker puts in an average of 45 to 65 hours a week, compared to 35 hours in same said European countries.

We can't afford to become isolationists, can't afford to withdraw our ties with the rest of the world, and can't afford to back down.

I find it ironic that the media conveniently fails to present the reality that is about strike the US hard. I'm also surprised that you of all people are not aware of the depth and scope of our situation.

my thoughts

v/r

Q