How do you choose your religion?

[Silverbackman]

Originally Posted by Bandit

yah scott.
pluuuus, once a world religion goes into action, (which will inevitably rule), no new thoughts or beliefs on things will ever be allowed, unless the leader(s) of the world religion decide to change it. history! history! not a good idea.IMO
when i think it all the way through, i like freedom of religion/beliefs better.

Have you been listening? I never said this new world religion would ban all other religions. Anyone is free to do as they wish but most likelly most people would come to this unifying faith, because then they get to taste all the fruit of all religions.

[_Z_]

Lunamoth. Hi



Lets hope then that there is a world left for you, by the time you have grown!


silverbackman.

does that include all religions - pagan, druid, neh even Satanism?

Z

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Lunamoth. Hi



Lets hope then that there is a world left for you,

That is what I work toward, a better world for my children.

by the time you have grown!

Z

I am not a Baha'i.

cheers,
lunamoth

[arthra]

Luna Moth:

I think this may be a little off the original topic here but you may recall we Baha'is have a very long range perspective... as the future unfolds..

In the beginning our Faith will emerge from obscurity... which in most areas is probably still the case.

In later stages there may be a some cases where Baha'is become recognized our Faith becomes a more legal entity..

A few countries in the future may have sizeable Baha'i populations and the state will be influenced by our culture which is still emerging...

Later a Baha'i State will might emerge.

In all of this civil laws and procedures will continue but as there will be more Baha'is the culture of the future may well be influenced.

We cannot say for sure how this will occur but I believe the Universal House will be responding to various issues as Baha'i communities grow and become established.

In any case... only Baha'is will be bound by Baha'i laws. And the process will be a gradual one..

I think Shoghi Effendi has basically delineated the above processes.

- Art

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Allah-u-Abha Scott,

Yes, Baha'is can vote but they can't run for office where political parties are involved, such as in the USA. For myself I register independent even without the Baha'i Faith telling me to, but this also means that Baha'is can't vote in the primaries. They also can't get involved in political causes deemed divisive (are there any that aren't?? ). I guess you are assuming this will change once the majority of people are Baha'is, but then, this creeps ever closer to theocracy, no?

And as for "those issues" that need to be put back on the table for consultation, the UHJ has so far said that that is impossible. Do you think that will change?

peace,
lunamoth

Dear Luna,

No membership in parties means you can't vote in primaries, but primaries are not elections. They put no one in office. The Civil Rights movement was a political cause that crossed partisan lines for one example - so did the abolition movement in the nineteenth century. If a cause advances the rights of individuals regardless of their political factions, that is not divisive by my lights.

Theocracy:
Main Entry: the·oc·ra·cy
Pronunciation: thE-'ä-kr&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Greek theokratia, from the- + -kratia -cracy
1 : government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided
2 : a state governed by a theocracy
----------------
I think the conservative Christian coalitions are a much greater threat for a theocracy than the Baha`i Faith. Especially since the national Baha`i administrative order makes no claim to any kind of leadership in a political sense and is not constitutionally (the constitution of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States) empowered to do so.
-----------------

At this point there is no guidance in the writings to change some of those decisions. There is no candidate for the Guardianship for instance. Nothing has been discovered within the writings to allow marriage of same-sex couples, so far. I think people get blinded by the term "same sex couple" and fail to realize that the Baha`i Faith calls for its members to practice sex within marriage, but it makes no allowance in the Aqdas to permit marriage between those of the same sex. So a Baha`i heterosexual couple living without matrimony together in a relationship that is obviously to all an intimate relationship will cause the loss of administrativerights just as fast as a gay couple living together in an obviously intimate relationship. "Marriage" is the issue over which administrative sanctions are decided.
Again, the loss of administrative rights does not mean that a person is "kicked out" of the faith. Those individuals are still Baha`i, they just cannot give to the funds, vote in Baha`i elections, be elected to Baha`i institutions, or attend Feast where the business matters of the faith are discussed. Some Baha`i's absorb the sanctions and get things resolved, others stay a Baha`i and live with the sanctions, others leave the faith over the issue - these are all volitional.
---------------------
Do I think those decisions will stand forever? Well, the next Manifestation is due in about a thousand years, that will supplant Baha`i law in any regard. So, willy-nilly things will change and I am not empowered to say HOW things will change by a long-shot.

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by _Z_

I can’t see baha’I gaining that much ground in order to affect the world processes. Sorry but it is just difficult to see anything taking over from the main religions.

To be honest, before I came here I had never heard of it.



I don’t mean to be offensive – I am just speaking the voice that says the words.



Respect - Z

No offense is taken. About a hundred and sixty years ago, the Bab made His declaration in Shiraz, Persia. There was an audience of ONE to that declaration, but within six years, the rulers of Persia were in panic thinking that the new religion would swamp their authority. But it was no more a political revolution than was the ministry of Jesus.

Some estimate that there were as many as 20,000 "Bab`is" (followers of the Bab) who were killed in various pogroms in that six year period. When Baha`u'llah was exiled rather than executed in late 1852, the pundits of Shi'ih Islam thought they had put out the fire.

By the passing of Baha`u'llah there were fewer than 20,000 Bahais through the Middle East and India.
By the passing of Abdu'l Baha in 1921 there were 50,000 Baha`i's around the world including North America, Europe, Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

Today there are about 7 million Baha`i's and it is the second most widespread religion in the world after "Christianity" in general.

That's 160 years, the faith has had its schismatics, yet today more than 99% of those seven million Baha`i's acknowledge the authority of the Universal House of Justice in Haifa, Israel. That makes the Baha`i Faith the MOST unified religion in the world, bar none. This is acknowledged by www.adherents.com which tracks religious statistics around the world.

This is by all standards explosive growth in 160 years.

Yes, it has been obscure. Now it is no longer obscure.

Regards,
Scott

[_Z_]

7 million eh! Quite impressive, but in a world of 6 billion it has some way to go before we fry! Anyway I still wouldn’t want it or any other faith to be prime – a one-world religion.



Ps. Is baha’I an Islamic sect? Forgive my ignorance.

Oh and would it except druids like me?



Z

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by _Z_

7 million eh! Quite impressive, but in a world of 6 billion it has some way to go before we fry! Anyway I still wouldn’t want it or any other faith to be prime – a one-world religion.



Ps. Is baha’I an Islamic sect? Forgive my ignorance.

Oh and would it except druids like me?



Z

"Prime" as in "dominant"? I agree. All revealed religion is the SAME religion - the religion of God, or so Baha`u'llah says.

The Baha`i faith arose from Islam like Christianity arose from Judaism, or Druidism from the Celtic Pantheon. It is independent.

To be a faith that can be followed, a religion must have a sacred text. The problem is that Rome thoroughly eradicated all the Ogham texts for druidism, so we have no idea WHAT the elements of that religion really and truly were.
To re-create that text is functionally impossible.

The Baha`i Faith accepts all who believe that Baha`u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this Age, but its purely volitional in fact an individual accepts the Baha`i Faith and he can formally have the Baha`i faith acknowledge that decision.

Regards,
Scott

[_Z_]

Popeyesays.



Druidry is not a religion of god, because we believe gods can be made manifest from the source, as we did [evoke] at ancient festivals [so that the people had something tangible to believe in], the pantheon was ultimately false. Much is still known about Druidry, although it was an oral tradition, we can still learn it from its source [esp. if you have an ancient guide ].

I am surprised you know about ogham! Though it is paramount to our beliefs that the magic cannot be written, thus there were never sacred texts. People always try to invalidate Druidry by saying it is lost, but it was always lost. Each druid would have had his own stories and beliefs, this is why we are simply ‘philosopher seers’ and not a religion as such. You would be surprised how much is out there, one either ‘knows’ or one doesn’t!



BTW, are the baha’I people on a recruitment drive? As whenever they post it seams so eh!



Still with much respect



Z

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Popeyesays.



Druidry is not a religion of god, because we believe gods can be made manifest from the source, as we did [evoke] at ancient festivals [so that the people had something tangible to believe in], the pantheon was ultimately false. Much is still known about Druidry, although it was an oral tradition, we can still learn it from its source [esp. if you have an ancient guide ].

I am surprised you know about ogham! Though it is paramount to our beliefs that the magic cannot be written, thus there were never sacred texts. People always try to invalidate Druidry by saying it is lost, but it was always lost. Each druid would have had his own stories and beliefs, this is why we are simply ‘philosopher seers’ and not a religion as such. You would be surprised how much is out there, one either ‘knows’ or one doesn’t!



BTW, are the baha’I people on a recruitment drive? As whenever they post it seams so eh!



Still with much respect



Z

Conversion is not a Baha`i "thing". How does one "convert" from one religion of God to another?
Nature is movement, what CAUSED it to move?

Regards and respect back at'cha,
Scott

[Silverbackman]

Originally Posted by _Z_

silverbackman.

does that include all religions - pagan, druid, neh even Satanism?

Z

The would include all major world religions that fall in the realms of real religion. Satanism is a atheistic cult, not sure about druid. How do you define pagan religions? If you mean any religion not Christianity, Islam, or Judaism then of course paganism will be included.

[Popeyesays]

How do you define "Paganism"?
Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
3 : NEO-PAGAN
- pagan adjective
- pa·gan·ish /-g&-nish/ adjective

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Silverbackman

Have you been listening? I never said this new world religion would ban all other religions. Anyone is free to do as they wish but most likelly most people would come to this unifying faith, because then they get to taste all the fruit of all religions.

yes silver, i am listening. but i do not like the fruit of all beliefs just as others do not like the fruit of all the things i believe. a unifying faith seems like deception to me & who are the leaders of this unifying faith? religious leaders like to tell everyone what to do & i dont see how a single unifying/organized religion would end up any different.

i am thinking in terms of a one world religion similiar to a one world government..that is what i am refering to that would not work because people wont realize their freedom has been taken from them, until it will be too late. i sure do hope you can see that potential in this.
i am tasting the fruit of these other religions just fine here at CR.

any how, i am kind of religioned out again & think i need the weekend off from religion. so you have good one, nice to meet you & keep your head up Silver.

[arthra]

Interesting to follow some of the posts ...

Let me say a few things though about unifying theplanet..

It's already happening at an accelerating rate.

I've been around more or less consciously since the end of WWII, Kora, Vietnam, etc.

I recall supporting the UN in a discussion I had in the late fifties with a professor at a meeting... He sugegsted the UN was not realistic and wouldn't last more than a few years time..

Well it has lasted longer than that..

The world is now a good deal smaller and more united than he would have believed fifty years ago. Why? technology, economics and world communications have forced us into it...

Probably the political world government or world parliament seems like a more viable and likely outcome to deal with world crises..

An International Court of Arbitration is now a reality.. Even though the US doesn't like it or formally recognize it it is still party to the Court's sessions so like or not that's coming about...

Inter-faith activities on a grass roots levell are becoming increasinf common and made necesary by the issues religious have living in the ame communities...

All these things above were presciently known in the Baha'i Faith in our Writings and such for many years before they occurred..

I think you'll see first more inter-faith activities and serious dialogue going on for some time...at World Parliament of Religions..

A uninification of all these religions and groups may take a form we cannot now predict.. but I think a better working relationship is what's more important and we'll see this I think developing soon.

People fear that individual freedom will be lost... Today I think peopel are feewling more empowered than ever. When I was a boy there were no satellites, no rockets to the moon unless in science fiction... there was racial segregation in my country and women by and large while voting were still relegated to the kitchens and changing diapers rather than having careers.
So I see the empowerments and graeter liberties that have occurred in the last fifty years and I see nothing really that will threaten these in the near future..

My rant is over...

- Art

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by arthra

I think you'll see first more inter-faith activities and serious dialogue going on for some time...at World Parliament of Religions..

A uninification of all these religions and groups may take a form we cannot now predict.. but I think a better working relationship is what's more important and we'll see this I think developing soon.

...

My rant is over...

- Art

Hi Art,

You call that a rant? Just joking.

Yes, I agree with the above. Interfaith work and dialogue is an important part of building the world we want.

peace,
lunamoth