Homosexuality

[Quahom1]

What is wrong with homsexuality...aside from the fact that it does nothing to continue the species, nothing is wrong with it. Keep the love life in the bedroom, not in the board room, or the law books. What is wrong with certain circles of people and homsexuality, is their insistance on proliferating their way of life, by demanding that the rest of the world "Teach children" about it, in an acceptable way. Demanding that we all accept their way of life. Kind of like a Catholic telling the rest of the world they are wrong, and the Church of Rome is going to enforce compliance and acceptance...fat chance. Teach kids that it is normal to be homosexual. Excuse me, less than 10 percent of the population is going to dictate to me and the other 90 percent, how to raise their children? 10 percent of the population is going to determine that the remaining 90 percent are screwed up?

Have your sexual pleasure. Keep it quiet. Don't try to entice children into sex period! Don't give me that crap about you (generalizing here), just want children to know their options. No child should have to be thinking about sex, let alone what sex they want to have.

No, I am not going to acknowledge your sexual partner, your lover, your life mate, if you are both the same sex. I will acknowledge your friend, your house mate, your roomate. Why? That way of describing a partner is not in my FACE. Get in my face, and I will get back in yours, with predjudice. Attempt to "teach" my children about alternative sexual life styles, and I will be in your face with "extreme" predjudice.

Don't try to normalize this. It isn't normal. Man/Woman = pleasure, satisfaction, possibly nuturing relationship and can = baby - continuance of the species. Man/Man or Woman/Woman = pleasure, satisfaction, possibly nuturing relationship, but no baby, hence no continuance of the species. But that is ok.

Just do not try to bring it into my family. Yes, I do have the final say, since GOD put me in charge (and my wife is the Executive officer, or #1.) She is more anti homosexual than I am.

You want marital rights? You already have rights to put anyone on your insurance, receive your moneys/pension, should you die, put anyone on your medical/dental benefits, give anyone in the world full power of attorney should you be incopasitated (sp). What more do you need? recognition of your "union"? Why? Because it is right? Says who, you? Marriage is based on time old traditions that come down from ancient scripture. Open gays are a relatively new thing (being accepted). History is rift with the times that society or other, dealt with gays in a less than gentle manner (every time, it was when gays became beligerent and demanding.) Don't take my word for it. Look up the history of the world, and the status or demise of the homosexual community. Today we are enlightened? The Romans thought the same thing 2000 years ago. The Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah thought so 3000 years ago.

I am an open minded soul. But do not stick your lifestyle in my face and tell me I must accept it...that would be a mistake.

Other than that, ya'll have a great time.

v/r

Q

[Kaldayen]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Homosexuality should be viewed as a medical condition not a sin.

Ok.. well I guess it's better, in your eyes.

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Homosexuality is something that should not be promoted at all!

Ok, but do you know how many teenagers/adults commit suicide because they are insulted, hit, or worse ignored, out of incomprehension. How many are even killed? Society has to be told about this reality (or medical condition if you want to call it that way) in order to understand it better. Some country punish homosexuality by death... you can see we're far from a global tolerance. As long as some young boys and girls will choose to end their life for who they are, I believe people will never hear about it enough... Is that sinful?

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Where is pro creation in homosexuality? What good does it do to this earth?

IMHO, I think there are enough people on Earth... but that's another debate.
___
Kal

[Faithfulservant]

The act of it is.. just like the act of any sex outside of a marriage is a sin.. its fornication. The marriage in the bible is ordained by God.. no matter who performs a homosexual marriage it is still NOT ordained in the eyes of God.. If you believe in God.. And you believe he can change anything... he can change this too.. There are soo many Christian testimonies of ex-homosexuals that have been changed and are now married with children.. Jesus makes all things new, But you have to want it and you have to accept that healing.

It sounds to me like you want someone to tell you that your damned because of your sexual preference according to the Christian faith.. Im telling you that Jesus is the way and he wants to deliver them from this because its not acceptable to God and it was not Gods intention when he created Man and Woman. None of us are going to tell you that they are damned because we are not the judge and jury in their salvation.. God is and Jesus is their advocate in heaven.

Its a horrible thing.. the hate in this world. Its not just Christianity that is against homosexuality.. like you said its a global situation. And the problem is like Q said.. Dont force it on our children at schools.

My daughter is 13 and when she was in the 6th grade she had a sex education class where the talked about homosexuality.. how it was normal. That is wrong. No 6th grader should be exposed to anything like that and I was appalled. I had to sit down and have a serious talk with her about this at an age where I shouldnt have had too.

Just to touch on another subject regarding the education system.. In 7th grade they taught my daughter about Islam in social studies.. how the religion was started.. who started it.. what they believe.. and all I can say was.. Why are they not allowing Christianity to be taught in the same way? Its a tragedy.

[Kaldayen]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Just do not try to bring it into my family.

You have the total right to choose what your children will be told. No one will bring it into your family. If one of your children is gay (1/10?), it'll bring itself there... and if he never heard about it before, he might wonder what's wrong with him.

This is not meant to sound harsh... It's just an example.
___
Kal

[Postmaster]

Personally its homophobia that drives many people to reacted adversely to homosexuality and they use religion as a weapon.. But you must understand that homophobia was something that was developed by nature, just as nature developed us for rejection of attraction to a sibling. However Homosexuality should not be regarded as a big sin, the only sin is that someone is doing is taking away there will to re-populate the earth, of which is every humans responsibility, we should never promote homosexuality because it merely is going against are very existence. Personally I prefer to see a topic starter saying Murder, or theft then homosexuality, homosexuality is the least of our worries. But homosexuals need to understand the homophobia is more natural then homosexuality itself and this argument will carry on forever. Homosexuals I'm affaird should learn to accept homophobics it shouldn't be the other way round. However good people, people of God should never mistreat homosexuals simply because of there nature. Jesus never taught us that.

[Vajradhara]

Salaam Quahom,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

What is wrong with homsexuality...aside from the fact that it does nothing to continue the species, nothing is wrong with it. Keep the love life in the bedroom, not in the board room, or the law books.

i completely agree. sexuality should not be legislated.

What is wrong with certain circles of people and homsexuality, is their insistance on proliferating their way of life, by demanding that the rest of the world "Teach children" about it, in an acceptable way.

funny enough... this is the exact same problem i have with Christianity, go figure!

Demanding that we all accept their way of life. Kind of like a Catholic telling the rest of the world they are wrong, and the Church of Rome is going to enforce compliance and acceptance...fat chance. Teach kids that it is normal to be homosexual. Excuse me, less than 10 percent of the population is going to dictate to me and the other 90 percent, how to raise their children? 10 percent of the population is going to determine that the remaining 90 percent are screwed up?

yes... yes... let me put my spin on it though, if i may...

teaching my children that there is some being up in the sky watching them is tantamount to pyschological terror... they are being watched by an invisible being that sees all they do and will judge them for it. if that's your belief, fine and dandy, don't go trying to teach my kids that it's normal or even healthy.

Have your sexual pleasure. Keep it quiet. Don't try to entice children into sex period! Don't give me that crap about you (generalizing here), just want children to know their options. No child should have to be thinking about sex, let alone what sex they want to have.

no child should have to think about hell and their parents burning in agnoy for eternity either.

i'm liking this discussion thus far!

No, I am not going to acknowledge your sexual partner, your lover, your life mate, if you are both the same sex. I will acknowledge your friend, your house mate, your roomate. Why? That way of describing a partner is not in my FACE. Get in my face, and I will get back in yours, with predjudice. Attempt to "teach" my children about alternative sexual life styles, and I will be in your face with "extreme" predjudice.

are you threatening violence to a forum member?

we do not tolerate that sort of thing here, you know.

Don't try to normalize this. It isn't normal. Man/Woman = pleasure, satisfaction, possibly nuturing relationship and can = baby - continuance of the species.

it also equals, amongst others, abused children, sexually assaulted wives and children, alcoholicism, divorced and broken families and all manner of other things.

so... if a hetro couple can't have a child, are they 'worthless' to the species? should they just be exterminated to clean up the gene pool?

Man/Man or Woman/Woman = pleasure, satisfaction, possibly nuturing relationship, but no baby, hence no continuance of the species. But that is ok.

let me introduce you to the wonderful world of in-vitro fertilization. indeed, a homosexual woman can give birth to a child. so.. there goes that argument.

Just do not try to bring it into my family.

is someone asking you to be gay?

You want marital rights? You already have rights to put anyone on your insurance, receive your moneys/pension, should you die, put anyone on your medical/dental benefits, give anyone in the world full power of attorney should you be incopasitated (sp). What more do you need?

how about the ability to decide medical issues for your partner when they can't make those decisions for themselves? how about tax benefits that other married folks get? how about the ability to will their property to their partner after death?

are you aware of the scope of this issue? it would appear, from your statements on this post, that you are not. there are plenty of incidents that have demonstrated that non-legally binding commitment papers (what you call a marriage license) do not grant a person permission to make medical decisions on their partners behalf.

would you want someone that didn't like you or thought you were disgusting, making medical decisions for youi? instead of the person to whom you've placed your trust, love and fidelity?

recognition of your "union"? Why? Because it is right? Says who, you?

read that preamble of the Constitution again and then explain how you can deny the same rights to someone and still believe that you adhere to the values stated therein that proclaim, amongst others, that "All men are created Equal and are endowned with certain inalienable rights."

i guess that really means as long as they are of the correct religion, eh?

equal rights means just that... equal rights. not some folks get some rights and others don't.

Marriage is based on time old traditions that come down from ancient scripture.

last time i checked, no homosexual couples were looking for the Church to recognize their union. so, you can your church can deny them this rite as much as you like, it's your perogotive. however, the government does not have that right. it is, unlike individuals, required to treat every individual the same under the law.

as such, a leagally binding covenant that establishes the same rights and duties that a married man and woman receive is what the state should grant to a homosexual couple that decides to formalize their comittment to each other.

Open gays are a relatively new thing (being accepted). History is rift with the times that society or other, dealt with gays in a less than gentle manner (every time, it was when gays became beligerent and demanding.) Don't take my word for it. Look up the history of the world, and the status or demise of the homosexual community. Today we are enlightened? The Romans thought the same thing 2000 years ago. The Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah thought so 3000 years ago.

so... are you suggesting that we keep in place rules and customes from ancient desert tribesmen? why, on earth, would we do that? i'm pretty pleased that we don't think it's tiny demons inhabiting us that makes us sick, i'm partial to germ theory myself. not a fan of bleeding out my fever either.. perfer the penicillin, don't ya know.

i'll note, not without some irony, that most Christians seem to select just a few of the 613 Moasic Laws to uphold and simply dismiss the rest. it is not lost upon me why this is.

I am an open minded soul. But do not stick your lifestyle in my face and tell me I must accept it...that would be a mistake.

it isn't about you accepting it or not. it has, actually, nothing to do with you. what it is, however, is an issue of rights... of fairness and integrity. if you can somehow explain how equal rights doesn't apply to homosexuals, then i'd be happy to hear it, otherwise, i'll continue to assert that equal means equal, not something less than equal.

however, continuing in the vein of my view regarding state sanctioned and taught religion...

you can practice your religion as much as you'd like, to your heart is content. however, don't go sticking your morality in my face and telling me that i must accept it, just because your religion endorses unethical behavior doesn't mean that i'm going to agree.

wasn't that fun?

we can probably do this with every ideology that we don't like... what's next?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Kaldayen

You have the total right to choose what your children will be told. No one will bring it into your family. If one of your children is gay (1/10?), it'll bring itself there... and if he never heard about it before, he might wonder what's wrong with him.

This is not meant to sound harsh... It's just an example.
___
Kal

Hello Kal, You are correct.

I have the absolute right to tell my children about life as I see it, my own way, not anyone elses. They have the right to learn otherwise as they grow older. I have the responsiblity to love them regardless of their choices.

If one of my children is gay...I will cry for a time, then get on with life. If he ever attempts to introduce his "friend" as his lover or anything else that implies such, I will kick both their butts off my property. Why? Because my sons know how I feel already. To attempt to get me to accept personally a certain status when I already laid down the rules...is disrespect towards me. End of statement. End of statement.

These are the rules. You abide, and I will abide.

That is life.

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Salaam Quahom,

thank you for the post.


i completely agree. sexuality should not be legislated.


funny enough... this is the exact same problem i have with Christianity, go figure!


yes... yes... let me put my spin on it though, if i may...

teaching my children that there is some being up in the sky watching them is tantamount to pyschological terror... they are being watched by an invisible being that sees all they do and will judge them for it. if that's your belief, fine and dandy, don't go trying to teach my kids that it's normal or even healthy.


no child should have to think about hell and their parents burning in agnoy for eternity either.

i'm liking this discussion thus far!


are you threatening violence to a forum member?

we do not tolerate that sort of thing here, you know.


it also equals, amongst others, abused children, sexually assaulted wives and children, alcoholicism, divorced and broken families and all manner of other things.

so... if a hetro couple can't have a child, are they 'worthless' to the species? should they just be exterminated to clean up the gene pool?


let me introduce you to the wonderful world of in-vitro fertilization. indeed, a homosexual woman can give birth to a child. so.. there goes that argument.


is someone asking you to be gay?


how about the ability to decide medical issues for your partner when they can't make those decisions for themselves? how about tax benefits that other married folks get? how about the ability to will their property to their partner after death?

are you aware of the scope of this issue? it would appear, from your statements on this post, that you are not. there are plenty of incidents that have demonstrated that non-legally binding commitment papers (what you call a marriage license) do not grant a person permission to make medical decisions on their partners behalf.

would you want someone that didn't like you or thought you were disgusting, making medical decisions for youi? instead of the person to whom you've placed your trust, love and fidelity?


read that preamble of the Constitution again and then explain how you can deny the same rights to someone and still believe that you adhere to the values stated therein that proclaim, amongst others, that "All men are created Equal and are endowned with certain inalienable rights."

i guess that really means as long as they are of the correct religion, eh?

equal rights means just that... equal rights. not some folks get some rights and others don't.


last time i checked, no homosexual couples were looking for the Church to recognize their union. so, you can your church can deny them this rite as much as you like, it's your perogotive. however, the government does not have that right. it is, unlike individuals, required to treat every individual the same under the law.

as such, a leagally binding covenant that establishes the same rights and duties that a married man and woman receive is what the state should grant to a homosexual couple that decides to formalize their comittment to each other.


so... are you suggesting that we keep in place rules and customes from ancient desert tribesmen? why, on earth, would we do that? i'm pretty pleased that we don't think it's tiny demons inhabiting us that makes us sick, i'm partial to germ theory myself. not a fan of bleeding out my fever either.. perfer the penicillin, don't ya know.

i'll note, not without some irony, that most Christians seem to select just a few of the 613 Moasic Laws to uphold and simply dismiss the rest. it is not lost upon me why this is.



it isn't about you accepting it or not. it has, actually, nothing to do with you. what it is, however, is an issue of rights... of fairness and integrity. if you can somehow explain how equal rights doesn't apply to homosexuals, then i'd be happy to hear it, otherwise, i'll continue to assert that equal means equal, not something less than equal.

however, continuing in the vein of my view regarding state sanctioned and taught religion...

you can practice your religion as much as you'd like, to your heart is content. however, don't go sticking your morality in my face and telling me that i must accept it, just because your religion endorses unethical behavior doesn't mean that i'm going to agree.

wasn't that fun?

we can probably do this with every ideology that we don't like... what's next?

Vaj, Good day.

First off, if you read my bio, you'd note that I save lives for a living, not threaten them.

I do not not have to accept anyone's way of life, especially when it is proven that a particular way of living is shown to be destructive. Gay living has been shown statistically to be rather destructive, albeit more so than any other life style. I did not make up the statistics.

I will not argue semantics with you concerning what children should or should not be taught. You a responsible for yours, as I am for mine.

Your problem with christianity is not mine. I do not attempt to convince you or your children to convert. The gay agenda is manifest, and as such can be read for all the world on the web pages that espouse Gay life. If I must, I will find you a series of specific links that state the same.

No churches you say? The Anglican church and the Episcopalian church are in an absolute uproar about the Gay issue. The Catholic church is realing from allegations (and proof), of pedephilia between priests and kids (read that as gay man and male child Vaj...). where have you been?

The 613 Mitzvot do not apply to Christians Vaj, They apply to the people of the law (The Jews). Christians only have two laws, Love neighbors, and Love God. (The two laws are all encompassing but do not mean we must accept errant behavior).

The rest have have 7 laws to follow...(read the post on Christians on trial).

Let me introduce you to the wonder world of natural order. Man, is made physically a certain way, and woman is made physically a certain way, and by God, they fit together!, Naturally!!! And it is good!

There is nothing natural about being gay, except the fact that one person may (possibly), have strong feelings for another, yet they can't really be together physically, in a natural way. So they can be very close in feelings, but they don't have to express their feelings sexually. Or if they do, they can keep it quiet!

There is nothing "fun" about this post.

v/r

Q

[Kaldayen]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Gay living has been shown statistically to be rather destructive.

I'd like to see those stats and if they weren't by any chances funded by a christian lobby...

Originally Posted by Quahom1

... pedephilia between priests and kids (read that as gay man and male child Vaj...). where have you been?

A man commiting pedophilia isn't gay. He likes young people. Whatever sex they may be. That's awful and it has nothing to do with gays. That's the best proof that people don't understand homosexuality...

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The Anglican church and the Episcopalian church are in an absolute uproar about the Gay issue.

Gays don't ask churches to recognize their unions. Gay marriage is an issue of civil rights, not of religious recognition. Civil marriage right is what is asked. Now if some priests want to welcome gays in religious marriage, that's their quest, not ours as a group.
Why? see Vajradhara's post.
___
Kal

[Quahom1]

Dear Kal,

I will provide you the non-christian stats I stated.

A man commiting pedophilia isn't gay. He likes young people. Whatever sex they may be. That's awful and it has nothing to do with gays. That's the best proof that people don't understand homosexuality...

WHAT? You have got to be kidding me! Guess what sir, according to the WORLD...A man, who rapes male children and continues to do so for over two decades, is not only a pedophile and a rapist Kal...but he likes young boys, Kal. That is homosexual. I don't care how you put it, it is homosexual. His preferernce is MALE CHILDREN, and he is MALE ADULT. Please, do not insult my intellilgence Kal. I've been around the world as much if not more than you.

What? You think that homosexual raptists are more innocent than heterosexual rapists? Is that what you were attempting to convey? Hello?
Or is it that you are trying to point out that man boy love is not rape, nor homosexuality? Guess what sir, the law thinks very different. So do the people of the land. No sympathy here.

Vaj likes to argue for arguement's sake (that is what I enjoy about him).

Gay marriage is an oxymoron. Marriage is by definition the uniting of male and female, not anything else. Civil Union? Just go do the paperwork and get unlimited power of attorney. Then both partners can do anything for eachother, and in eachother's stead. sign insurrance forms, and provide affidavits confirming that each partner is the first to contact, and the first to decide over life and death issues...

Please, don't tell me I'm wrong or full of bull. I'm a lawyer's son, and have it from the best athority (legally).

Q

[Kaldayen]

Originally Posted by quahom1

What? You think that homosexual raptists are more innocent than heterosexual rapists? Is that what you were attempting to convey? Hello?
Or is it that you are trying to point out that man boy love is not rape, nor homosexuality? Guess what sir, the law thinks very different. So do the people of the land. No sympathy here.

Hm.. I didn't say anything close to that... Rape is unacceptable. So are pedophiles. Those people are sick and should be treated. As I said in my previous post : "it's awful". Don't make me say things I didn't say.

The priest raping a young boy may be ALSO gay (that's far from being automatic), but it would be equally disguting with a young girl...

Now can we leave pedophilia out of this thread? We're speaking of homosexuality which is, a MAN in love with another MAN, or a woman in love with another woman. Both being of legal age and able to decide of their own acts.
___
Kal

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Kaldayen

Hm.. I didn't say anything close to that... Rape is unacceptable. So are pedophiles. Those people are sick and should be treated. As I said in my previous post : "it's awful". Don't make me say things I didn't say.

The priest raping a young boy may be ALSO gay (that's far from being automatic), but it would be equally disguting with a young girl...

Now can we leave pedophilia out of this thread? We're speaking of homosexuality which is, a MAN in love with another MAN, or a woman in love with another woman. Both being of legal age and able to decide of their own acts.
___
Kal

"A man commiting pedophilia isn't gay. He likes young people. Whatever sex they may be. That's awful and it has nothing to do with gays. That's the best proof that people don't understand homosexuality... "

You sir said this, I did not. Don't even think to begin putting this on me. I will not accept nor tolerate it. You deal with your own words, just like everyone else here.

Q

[Kaldayen]

Even if I reread, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean... i said that pedophilia and homosexuality are 2 distinct things. Do you not agree?
___
Kal

[ISFP]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

If one of my children is gay...I will cry for a time, then get on with life. If he ever attempts to introduce his "friend" as his lover or anything else that implies such, I will kick both their butts off my property. Why? Because my sons know how I feel already. To attempt to get me to accept personally a certain status when I already laid down the rules...is disrespect towards me. End of statement. End of statement.

you know.... i once heard a quote by Judy Shepard (the mother of Matthew Shepard) that said "I can't understand parents who reject their children on the basis of homosexuality or homosexual relationships. my feeling is that when you agree to bring a child into world, as their parent, you are agreeing to love them unconditionally for who they are, not for whom you want them or wish them to be."

i think i'll side with Judy on this one.

[Kaldayen]

On further thought, I think I understand where might be the misunderstanding. We need to define the vocabulary. On its strictest meaning, homosexuality is the act of having sexual relationship with someone of the same sex.

If that's the only meaning there is to it, a priest raping a young boy is both a pedophile and an homosexual. A priest raping a young girl is a pedophile and an heterosexual. Both have been seen and both are disgusting. I know we agree on this.

The thing is, my relationship with a guy isn't only about sex. That's only a little part of our life. Thus what I live isn't only homosexuality, it's something bigger than this. Should I invent a new word for it? If it already exists, I don't know it. So for the purpose of this thread, I'll use the word gay.

So as I said earlier, A man commiting pedophilia isn't gay.

Dunno if it's more clear now. Keep in mind english isn't my first language please... so if my words had hidden meanings, they weren't meant to be.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Don't even think to begin putting this on me. I will not accept nor tolerate it.

I am not attacking you...
___
Kal