Homosexuality

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Geist

The only reason there is a bible is to give you a guideline on how to live a good life whether you choose to follow is your choice. Somethings you may agree with others you may not homosexuality is one of these things.

Indeed. Whether considered to be a sin or not, all humankind is presented with challenges. Instinct doesn't flick on and off like a light switch. The happiest of us are those of us who understand who we are. 'Sin' is the challenge. Any of us who have had a challenge know that the challenge can not be overcome by acting like it isn't there. Gays and Lesbians have a special kind of challenge - one that is very heavily ridiculed. Great wars have always been fought to bring about balance. Satan is confusion. God is peace. Gays and Lesbians who are at peace with their lifestyle now struggle to bring peace to the rest of the world. Interesting ministry they have.

[Knowledge]

Geist,

Please dont be fooled, I am not an advocate of religion. To be honest, I hate religion. Religion is Satan's best tool in creating a slave. It will enslave a person's mind, body, and soul. Jesus came to set us free from religion, and all sin. To come to him, is not to come to a religious system (though some has made it so). But, to come to Christ is to have a relationship with your Creator and God. The ex homosexual who have found Jesus, have come into a real relationship with God, and they've been changed, and not brainwashed. As the scripture says, Anyone in Christ is a new creation. Behold, old things are gone, and new things have come.

Later,

Knowledge

PS: Path of One, I dont judge you. I cant!

Knowledge

[Geist]

Originally Posted by Knowledge

Geist,

Please dont be fooled, I am not an advocate of religion. To be honest, I hate religion. Religion is Satan's best tool in creating a slave. It will enslave a person's mind, body, and soul.

But you are the way you speek of religion proofs this. You speek of it as if it is some kind of way that everyone must follow. And if you believe in Satan the you must believe in God because you can not have one without the other!

Originally Posted by knowledge

Jesus came to set us free from religion, and all sin.

Sin is a man made dulusion. Homosexuality isn't a sin no matter how much a minister or the Bible may say it is. Its all about how you perseve things in your own mind.

To come to him, is not to come to a religious system

But Christ is a religious system. Hes also a bit of a contradiction in that sense.

[brucegdc]

Observant readers will note some odd jumps in the thread. This is due to posts which were deemed by the moderator to be abusive being removed. To all posters - please observe the code of conduct, and remember that flaming and attacking other members isn't allowed.

We now return you to your ongoing discussion.

[bgruagach]

The whole "ex gay" thing is exposed by people like Wayne Besel (look for his book "Anything But Straight.") Sure, people can be shamed into denying what they really feel. Sure, a gay person can get married to someone of the opposite sex and even have children... but so long as they still feel an attraction to members of the same sex they still have homosexual feelings.

The only people who truly have a choice are bisexuals, who are attracted to both the opposite sex and the same sex. I imagine it would be much easier for a bisexual person to pick just one than it would be for a truly homosexual or truly heterosexual person to go against their God-given nature.

I've known plenty of gay men (and there is absolutely no doubt they were gay) who have been married and even had children. Getting married and having children does not prove a person is not really gay.

It is certain that some religious groups teach that homosexuality is wrong. It is also certain that some religious groups teach that homosexuality is just as God-given, natural and acceptable as heterosexuality. Some of these opposite standpoints even use the exact same holy scripture yet come to different conclusions.

Which side is correct that they truly know God's will? As others have pointed out, it's a matter of faith. If any group could truly prove that they have God's definitive word on this or any other matter, then we would long ago have all switched to that One True Religion. Yet the fact that this has not happened suggests to me that all of those different religions are fallible, as all are based on human interpretations and guesses about what we humans think MIGHT be God's will.

[Abogado del Diablo]

I could do the same thing, talking about my conversion from being a fundamentalist, evangelical, Christian (for ten years of my life) and belittling others who still are.

I don't do that because I'd rather try to understand where they are coming from. That's what Jesus would do.

[Faithfulservant]

Not intending to hijack the thread at all I would just like to say that Jesus wasnt against religion he was against organized religion.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Originally Posted by Knowledge

The ex homosexual who have found Jesus, have come into a real relationship with God, and they've been changed, and not brainwashed.

I try not to let it bother me - everyone has the right to their own opinion - but I get so frustrated when I encounter the idea that all homosexuals are somehow godless or atheist or irreligious, and that the only reason we're still gay is that we haven't found Christ (implying the only reason we're gay in the first place is that we willfully wish to do wrong).

I was raised in a very Christian family - my grandfather was a minister and three members of my family are church choir conductors. As a child I would beg my parents to go to church early so I could go to Sunday School before service. The day I was confirmed was the happiest, proudest day of my life. I used to go to church at least twice a week, knew most of the Bible by heart, sang in the church choir, and attended Bible study groups. And I believed it personally and took it seriously. I even made serious plans to go to seminary myself. All many years after coming out. My own withdrawal from Christianity had much more to do with my inability to reconcile what I saw as inconsistencies in the Church's attitude to many other aspects of society and history (poverty and the role of women, to name just two). I never saw my homosexuality as a hindrance to accepting Christ's love. He loved tax collectors and prostitutes, who certainly chose their path much more than I chose mine.

Two of my friends, one gay, one bisexual, were both seminary students. Both gifted, caring, intelligent, highly respected by their professors. One converted to Unitarian Universalism and the other dropped out of seminary altogether because the Church and the people in it refused to accept their sexuality. I consider it a loss to the Christian ministry in both cases (by which I am not at all trying to disparage Unitarian Universalism, and that friend, the last I heard, is now doing amazing work within that denomination).

For a while I attended a church where three of the four ministers were openly gay. Never in my life have I experienced a church where the spirit and love of Jesus Christ were so powerfully made manifest, during worship services and in community ministry. Incidentally, all three ministers came out during their seminary studies.

For all six of us, our devotion to Christ long preceded our realization of our sexuality. Saying that homosexuals are homosexuals because they haven't truly accepted Christ is a copout and an excuse to refuse to look at them as souls worthy of love, as Christ would have done.

[truthseeker]

Thank you for your story, Scarlet. I feel truly blessed by it.

There are so many different kinds of us. Jesus works best in the lives of us who are in need of him. Those of us who are meant to do that very special work are presented with very special challenges - I see you've made your challenge into something very positive.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

For all six of us, our devotion to Christ long preceded our realization of our sexuality. Saying that homosexuals are homosexuals because they haven't truly accepted Christ is a copout and an excuse to refuse to look at them as souls worthy of love, as Christ would have done.

That's how I see it as well. Thank you for sharing your story.

[Conscience]

I for one dont believe that all religions are right. But, doesnt ALL religions say that God does not advocate homosexuality?

[Tristan]

No. People preaching most of world's religions condemn homosexual behaviour. We don't really know what their gods think of that, do we ?

[Conscience]

If we dont know what God wants us to know, that would mean that God doesnt care about us at all. If he didnt give us a reverlation of who he is, then I have to admit that evalution makes more sense. If God didnt give of any kind of insite of what he wants, who he is, then he is the most evil of all.

But, that isnt true, is it. Why? Because God is Love. And, being love, he had to give of that love. He revealed himself through his Law that was given to some people who wrote it down. Later, he became as one of us, and fulfilled the Law that was written for us. After fulfilling the Law; which no other man could do, he died as a sacrifice, paying the price for all of us who was condemned under the law. After dying he rose, and started a reverlution. He turned people who were afarid fishermen into bold/brave men that died telling the world about him. His whole story was written in a book that is compilled of 66 books, penned by 40 different guys, which by the way, is written from outside our time domine, proving that he was the one that authored it.

Now, he asks that we read whats written about him, and believe. Only then will he prove what was written about him in his holy word, the Bible.

[brucegdc]

Originally Posted by Conscience

I for one dont believe that all religions are right. But, doesnt ALL religions say that God does not advocate homosexuality?

No, all religions do not say that. Christianity, Islam and Judaism have various scriptural passages often quoted to condemn it (and for two of the three, other scriptural passages quoted as offsets). Islamic Shariah law makes it a capital offense. Christian and Judaic spiritual leadership is moderately split on the issue (see the Episcopal/Anglican Church in the US & Canada, for an example).

Buddhism has no such scriptural prohibition (monks and nuns are supposed to be celibate... so no nookie no matter what the gender if you're a monk or nun), but no restriction on lay folk. (Although some Buddhist countries have anti-homosexuality laws, they generally date to the British/western occupations of Asia)

Wicca certainly has no such belief. All acts of pleasure are the goddess's. Similarly for many other 'pagan' beliefs.

Hinduism is split (although it's considered a deviation from the norm, since the focus is on family including engendering kids).

Unitarianism has no issue with homosexuality.

And so on and so forth....

Be welcome here, but don't fall into the trap of thinking there is only one way :-)

We have a very diverse community, and even within a specific religion there's a lot of different viewpoints.

[Conscience]

Thank you for the wecome! And, great nokie joke. LOL!