History of the Swastika

[I, Brian]

On the main CR site, I have little ads to other material on other parts of the site. Some of these are ersources, some of these are forum topics.

One forum topic I wanted to promote was "spiritual fascism". And what better symbol to use for fascism than a Nazi flag - red background, white center circle and black emblazoned swastika.

Now, we actually host some copyrighted texts ehre, and do so only with kind permission of those who own the rights to such writings and other resources.

I got an e-mail from one of them soon after - he was horrified - having just seen a swastika on the same page as his translated work. He told me that he was German, and that it is illegal to use the swastika in Germany.

I personally found it something of an over-reaction - not personal, but the claim of the social duress of even having a swastika on your computer screen. But I duly complied, and used an image of skinheads from a national front rally in Britain - our far-right.

The point of this thread is - I know that the swastika was used as a religious symbol in the east for millenia before.

What I am unclear about is what it actually represented in Eastern Thought, and also why the Nazi Party and Hitler were so keen to use it.

I bring this topic up because one of our members now has an avatar that involves the swastika as part of the image. My erading is that the context is entirely in line with Eastern Thought and Symbolism, and therefore I have nothing against it's use - unless someone can convince me it's actually an ancient curse, or likewise.

However, I invite people to give their thoughts on the swqastika as a religious symbol, and especially invite an exploration of its history and meaning - before Nazi Germany gave us the infamous and rather horrendous aftertaste of it.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste brian,


perhaps, this link would be of some value:

http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/swas.html

[juantoo3]

Great link! Thanks Vaj!

[Pathless]

Yes, the link is good. If you look at the image of the swastika on that page and compare it to the swastika often used by Nazi Germany, you will notice some differences: namely, that the Nazi swastika is inverted and also tilted 45 degrees. That is, the "tails" of the Nazi swastika go in the opposite direction as the traditional one, and it is arranged in its background to look more like a diamond than a square.

According to Ananda Marga philosophy, the swastika (represented as it is on the page that Vaj linked and also on the avatar Brian is refering to) represents spiritual progress, which moves from "crude to subtle," or, we could also say, from a lower state of being to a higher state. So, when Nazi Germany uses the reversed swastika, they are also reversing the spiritual symbolism of it, moving as it were from "subtle to crude," or from higher states of being to lower. That's the Ananda Marga spin on it (pun intended ), if I remember correctly.

[samabudhi]

I remember seeing the translation of the sanskrit 'swastika' as 'prosperity.'
If you look for a Sanskrit-English dictionary on the web, it'll probably be the one I'm talking about.

[louis]

What I am unclear about is what it actually represented in Eastern Thought, and also why the Nazi Party and Hitler were so keen to use it.

From Louis...
Maybe this will help ...
The swastika is the NEGATIVE of a much older symbol.
It starts with a cross ( MUCH older than Christianity and
"swiped" by St. Paul ) - the horizontal line represents
the earth or physical reality - the vertical line represents
"spiritual" reality.
The bent arms started out being attached RIGHT and
going LEFT - the space representing incompleteness -
implying the arms would bend again to form a square
with a cross in the center -an on-going process leading
to a pefect harmonious world.
A swastika is the opposite - implying the harmony
BROKEN and TWISTED ( a swastika is at an angle )
against a red background representing blood, fire -
whatever - a totaly EVIL, NEGATIVE symbol !!!

[samabudhi]

Originally Posted by louis

A swastika is the opposite - implying the harmony
BROKEN and TWISTED ( a swastika is at an angle )
against a red background representing blood, fire -
whatever - a totaly EVIL, NEGATIVE symbol !!!

It's so sinful it'll have you running to your vicar for absolution! (Frasier, Gil when talking about his latest culinary delight)

[Avinash]

Namaskar,

The vertical line indeed symbolizes the Spiritual Consciousness (Purusha) and the horizontal line the Creative Force (Prakrti). They are both present in the creation which has a forward moving dynamism symbolized in the right turning side arms. The negative swastika symbolizes regression which people undergo when they practise avidya. Ideating on the negative swastika with its left turning side arms, has a negative effect on the mind.

I think Hitler used both the positive and the negative swastika but he did turn them 45 degrees as well. I'm not sure what that does to the symbol, but combined with the red background it does give me an aggressive negative feeling (but that may be because of an automatic association with Nazi Germany).

Someone once told me that Hitler was into occult practices and had studied all kinds of eastern philosophies. But the swastika was also used by germanic peoples like e.g. the Vikings, so the symbol is not typical for the East only. I've seen it on ancient christian tombs near Rome, on Roman floor mosaics and on Viking cloggs in a clogg museum. On my journeys through the Far East I've seen it over people's front doors and in iron windowguards.

Andrew

[louis]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

It's so sinful it'll have you running to your vicar for absolution! (Frasier, Gil when talking about his latest culinary delight)

From Louis ....
What "vicar" ???
I've never had a vicar - I've never practised any form of religion.
All I know about is pre-columbian art motifs. The original symbol
appears on carvings dating back centuries - notably in North
America. It's called a "fyflot" and is still used as a "good luck"
symbol incorported in American Native artwork.

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by louis

From Louis ....
What "vicar" ???
I've never had a vicar - I've never practised any form of religion.
All I know about is pre-columbian art motifs. The original symbol
appears on carvings dating back centuries - notably in North
America. It's called a "fyflot" and is still used as a "good luck"
symbol incorported in American Native artwork.

Namaste louis,

he was making a pop culture reference to a television show called Fraiser.

[I, Brian]

I've read up something about the occult influences on the Nazi party - quite an eclectic mix! But I've never understood why they reversed the Swastika - what the actual ideology involved was.

[suanni]

Interesting thread. And the meanings of the Swastika and the reversal of it for Nazi Germany plus Hilter's occult influences kinda like gets the brain ticking over.

Whatever Hilter's ideology for inverting the Swastika it had its effect, didn't it?
Did he intend to invert it? Did he perhaps believe that he was indeed fortunate/blessed and that's why he used it?

Such a pity that such an evil little man has demonised a 'blessed symbol'. Maybe in time we'll forget. I doubt it though.

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by suanni

Maybe in time we'll forget. I doubt it though.

Don't forget it's only in the West where this symbol is associated in a negative way with Hitler.

Andrew

[suanni]

So maybe in time the East can re-educate the West on this.

And maybe in time the demonising that the pentacle/pentagram (media only) has received will also be removed.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by suanni

Whatever Hilter's ideology for inverting the Swastika it had its effect, didn't it?
Did he intend to invert it? Did he perhaps believe that he was indeed fortunate/blessed and that's why he used it?

Somehow I'm not sure we'll ever know - the Nazi party had a very mixed set of influences, and seem to distill theories from different sources and put them together with frightening logic.

For example, take Francis Galton's notions of eugenics, mix with Aryanism (I believe sourced from a writer in South America, I forget his name), and add Madame Blavatsky's take on Judaism - boil in the anti-Semitic cauldron of Austria with the resources of industrial Germany - and you arrive at "the Final Solution".

I tried for ages to chase up a book I was under the impression would be rather authoritive on the whole topic of occult influence on the Nazi's - "Satan and the Swastika" by Francis X. King. I asked Father Christmas for it for 3 years running when I was a kid - but for some reason, never woke up to it on Christmas morning. Doesn't every parent dream of buying their child such a book title?