Hell is a Hoax

[Azure24]

No where in the Bible is Hell truly mentioned, there is not such a place and noone is going to go there. Here is proof:

1 Corinthians 15:22 (New International Version)

22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

1 Timothy 4:10 (New International Version)

10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

* Note i have singled out the most important parts.

[noctuary]

Actually you are incorrect. Simply google Hell in the bible. You will find much mentioned in the bible.

[path_of_one]

What is commonly translated as hell are actually concepts that are quite different in the original usage. Gehenna is translated as hell in many Bibles, but was an actual place on earth (a local dump) and not the idea most Christians have today. Hades is often translated as hell also, but anyone who knows Greek mythology will realize that Hades is not the same conceptually as the modern Christian "hell."

I agree that hell doesn't actually exist as a physical place, though I put forth it exists as a state of being.

We've had long, complex discussions about this before here in the Christian forum. You may want to reference those older posts through a search.

By the way, we've also had long ones about free will, so you may also want to reference that for your other post.

[China Cat Sunflower]

What sort of state of mind is Hell, Path? Can you isolate the sources of that imagery? I mean, where did you get the idea(s)? How did you build up the imagery in your mind? Can you break it back apart and look at each little thing that goes into your conception of this mental hell? That would be a cool exercise to try.

I got my conception of hell in church, but hell never seemed real to me- probably because I assumed I wouldn't be going there! I was always terrified of Jesus, though, come to think of it.

Chris

[noctuary]

I am going off a bit here. At some point Hell was thought to be the absence of God. That it was to be away from his view. There was a tale, not sure if it was Jewish or not that God is everywhere. And he needed a place not to be. He called this place Zimzum. Oh found it
Tzimtzum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[noctuary]

Oh to add. What is hell?
It's being in line at the DMV and your number is C4. And the number being called is C5. So you have to wait till they start over.

*almost a true story

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

What sort of state of mind is Hell, Path? Can you isolate the sources of that imagery? I mean, where did you get the idea(s)? How did you build up the imagery in your mind? Can you break it back apart and look at each little thing that goes into your conception of this mental hell? That would be a cool exercise to try.

I got my conception of hell in church, but hell never seemed real to me- probably because I assumed I wouldn't be going there! I was always terrified of Jesus, though, come to think of it.

Chris

Of course, this is just my current idea about hell and heaven, based on my own experience...

I think it is a state of being completely alone, without God. God is in all things and beyond them. When one dies and yet refuses to turn toward God, one has lost God in all things (since one is not incarnated at that point, and fails to be with other incarnated beings) and also one has refused to have union with God. So one is thus despairingly, agonizingly alone. There is little worse for a human being than to be utterly alone, so there is little I can think of as worse torment. Indeed, without anyone else, it is questionable if we would feel that we exist at all.

Similarly, heaven is not a place but rather a unity with God and all other beings who have also come to realize their inner Light. I have never felt greater joy than when I had a vision of uniting with God and melting/blending with all other beings. It was pure love and was indescribable how wonderful it felt. So far, I can't imagine (and haven't experienced) anything better. Any physical place can't come close to that feeling.

I think overall, my conceptualization of heaven and hell is fairly simple, with little imagery. It is an outgrowth of emotional spiritual experience, and I acknowledge it is not due to any complex theology. I don't think God sends people to hell; people choose to be there until they choose another state of being. I don't claim to know how it works, that's just the best guess I have with what I intuitively sense. I'm an odd Christian because I believe reincarnation occurs, so perhaps people spend a bit of time in "hell" in this sense until they at least decide to be incarnated again. The specifics of the afterlife aren't really much of a focus of my spirituality, so I'm content to leave the concepts fuzzy. I just can't quite think that everyone experiences the same thing after death, no matter what they prepare themselves for and how they are during their life, and yet I very strongly can't buy into a physical heaven or hell, unless there is some "Summerland" concept of a place folks go to rest up before the next incarnation. Maybe it is in part that mansions and some place flowing with milk and honey never seemed very transcendent to me, and if you let go of a physical heaven, then hell doesn't make much sense either?

[mee]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I got my conception of hell in church,

Chris

And there we have it, that speaks volumes .

false religious beliefs and doctrines are rife in the churches that CLAIM to follow bible teachings but do nothing of the sort.



it is nothing but manmade traditions and manmade doctrines. it certainly is a racket and a snare.

there is no litral hellfire teaching in the bible , false religious leaders have already fallen from Gods blessings because of their unfaithfulness and taking on of manmade doctrines


but that is not to say that there is not a FAITHFUL CHANNEL that is dishing out good bible based teachings , because there is.



And that FAITHFUL channel is the one that Jesus is feeding and giving great responsibility and blessings too. matthew 24;45-47



its all happening especially in the times that we live in right now , and there is not any fearful hellfire teaching coming from them because all of their teachings are inline with the PURE words of the bible .


and it is very good news that they are making known.

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14

the end of manmade rulerships and goverments , is Goodnews .


and the even better news that will happen is that eventually DEATH will be swallowed up forever.

and going back to the verse in the opening thread,

For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 1 CORINTHIANS 15;22


We are all of us in a dieing state because of the sin of the first man Adam. As ROMANS 5;12 informs us, all men grow old and die, but it was not Gods original purpose at all.


That is why, just as through one man (Adam)sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. Romans 5;12


but we can get everlasting life back and it is through Jesus Christ.


For to this end we are working hard and exerting ourselves, because we have rested our hope on a living God, who is a Savior of all sorts of men, especially of faithful ones. 1 timothy 4;10



(Romans 5:17) For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ.



(Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.



As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing ...1 corinthians 15;26

[17th Angel]

I, (amazingly) learnt something last night, I was recapping on the case of John Wayne Gacy.... You know, the guy who (as far as we know) killed 33 young males.... Now the main dectective incharge of this investigation... Heeded the words of a psyhcic... (sp) Like how freaking stupid is that? What a waste of time..... Right? He believed in something that was so un freaking believable.... YET it paid off.... Now, this made me ponder... This guy said "What if this woman is right?" What if..... If she was right, that is a terrible tale.. This upright good man, helpful friendly man... Raped and killed 33 (known number) boys.... IF this is right... Then we gotta do something... IF he was wrong, what had he lost? Nothing.......

So, a belife in Hell.... Is it healthy? I think it is. And I can't see any bad from thinking "What if".

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

So, a belife in Hell.... Is it healthy? I think it is. And I can't see any bad from thinking "What if".

the problem about hellfire is that it is a lie , and it makes God out to be evil.


and i am after truth not lies.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by mee

the problem about hellfire is that it is a lie , and it makes God out to be evil.


and i am after truth not lies.

Yea, ok.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by noctuary

I am going off a bit here. At some point Hell was thought to be the absence of God. That it was to be away from his view. There was a tale, not sure if it was Jewish or not that God is everywhere. And he needed a place not to be. He called this place Zimzum. Oh found it
Tzimtzum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greetings Noctuary,
Tzimtzum is not Hell. It is all of the universe.


Valentin Tomberg explains:
"the idea of tsimtsum - the 'withdrawal of God' - of the Lurianic school of Cabala.....the existence of the universe is rendered possible by the act of contraction of God within Himself. God made a 'place' for the world in abandoning a region interior to Himself."
Tsimtsum

Consider the etymology of "Hell".


-B.Bruce

[noctuary]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Greetings Noctuary,
Tzimtzum is not Hell. It is all of the universe.


Valentin Tomberg explains:
"the idea of tsimtsum - the 'withdrawal of God' - of the Lurianic school of Cabala.....the existence of the universe is rendered possible by the act of contraction of God within Himself. God made a 'place' for the world in abandoning a region interior to Himself."
Tsimtsum

Consider the etymology of "Hell".


-B.Bruce

I get that. Just trying to explain that to me I figure hell would be a place away from God. Then again, I don't believe in either and this is a discussion on myth for me. But I do enjoy it. I am always being told I am going to Hell. So I like to keep my travel plans researched and up to date.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Of course, this is just my current idea about hell and heaven, based on my own experience...

I think it is a state of being completely alone, without God. God is in all things and beyond them. When one dies and yet refuses to turn toward God, one has lost God in all things (since one is not incarnated at that point, and fails to be with other incarnated beings) and also one has refused to have union with God. So one is thus despairingly, agonizingly alone. There is little worse for a human being than to be utterly alone, so there is little I can think of as worse torment. Indeed, without anyone else, it is questionable if we would feel that we exist at all.

Similarly, heaven is not a place but rather a unity with God and all other beings who have also come to realize their inner Light. I have never felt greater joy than when I had a vision of uniting with God and melting/blending with all other beings. It was pure love and was indescribable how wonderful it felt. So far, I can't imagine (and haven't experienced) anything better. Any physical place can't come close to that feeling.

I think overall, my conceptualization of heaven and hell is fairly simple, with little imagery. It is an outgrowth of emotional spiritual experience, and I acknowledge it is not due to any complex theology. I don't think God sends people to hell; people choose to be there until they choose another state of being. I don't claim to know how it works, that's just the best guess I have with what I intuitively sense. I'm an odd Christian because I believe reincarnation occurs, so perhaps people spend a bit of time in "hell" in this sense until they at least decide to be incarnated again. The specifics of the afterlife aren't really much of a focus of my spirituality, so I'm content to leave the concepts fuzzy. I just can't quite think that everyone experiences the same thing after death, no matter what they prepare themselves for and how they are during their life, and yet I very strongly can't buy into a physical heaven or hell, unless there is some "Summerland" concept of a place folks go to rest up before the next incarnation. Maybe it is in part that mansions and some place flowing with milk and honey never seemed very transcendent to me, and if you let go of a physical heaven, then hell doesn't make much sense either?

Thanks, Path, that's really interesting! I have really primitive, ultra childish images/notions of Heaven, Hell, God, Jesus, Satan... They come directly from pictures in children's books published by the SDA church. Heaven is literally a collage of all the descriptiv elements related to it, so there's the lamb and the lion looking all peaceful with a child leading them, actual gold streets, a disneyland looking castle city, tree of life within picking distance. Jesus is a white dude with long hair and a beard. God is a glowing fire thingy on a mountain. But we were never really exposed to any images of Hell. Maybe it was too catholicy.

I was freaked out by the resurection and judgment. That was depicted with an eye toward extreme graphic effect. People coming up out of graves, others screeching at the rocks to fall on them. But I was never afraid of hell, or the judgment, or being "Lost." What I was terrified of was the persecution that was supposed to happen to us during the Time of Trouble. The Sunday keepers were going to come and force us to confess, then torture and kill most of us. You had to be brave and die for Jesus, or at least be prepared to. And Jesus would know if you betrayed him. He's like Santa- he knows. But He's a freaking scary Santa that comes back and makes you die for him.

I checked out the Wiki page on Hell. There are an amazing array of ideas from different cultures which correlate to some sort of Hell-like place or existence. I was thinking that people sort of aggegate different imagery from various sources to build up a personal collage image of Hell, or Heaven. I wasn't exposed to Dante, Milton, or any of the other myriad commonplace conceptions related to the Hell of western imagination, so I never actually formed a personal construct of it. The same is true of Heaven, really. My vision of that exists in the same file as other unformed concepts from early childhood when I was just confused about something which seemed peculiar at the time. Like when I thought that Pepsi was gasoline because my Dad said something about he'd rather drink gas than Pepsi, or when I thought that cheese came from the inside of a cow's horn because the package said "Longhorn Cheese", and had a picture of a long horned steer on the front.

I've had any number of opportunities to work some sort of conception of Heaven and Hell into my saddle bag of spiritual concepts, but they just aren't tangible in any useful way to me. My personal experience with the use of martyr propaganda as a tool for indoctrinating children and controlling adults by creating fear and xenophobia was a huge motivating factor in my struggle to free myself from the coercion and compulsion of fundamentalist Christian ideology. That was very useful!

Chris

[greymare]

Ill be seeing you there i suspect. LOL. ah, well we wont be lonely.