Hell is a Hoax

[seattlegal]

You seem to show a bit of Zoroastrian influence, Azure24.

[Azure24]

Let us go back to Jesus' crucifxion

"I am innocent of the blood of this JUST PERSON" (Mat. 27:24)

"They ALL [priests & citizens] say unto him" (Ver 22)
"let Him be crucified"

"WHY, what evil hath He done?" (Ver. 23)
"let Him be crucified"

"Jesus answered ... The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them" (Matt. 11:4-5)

"crucify Him"

"Come unto me, all ye [sinners] ... I will give you rest" (Mat. 11:28)
"crucify Him"
"I [Jesus] have compassion on the multitude [of sinners]" (Mat. 15:32)
"crucify Him"
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost" (Mat. 18:11)
"crucify Him"

Are these cruel murderers of the very Son of God evil enough to be counted the worst of the worst sinners who have ever drawn breath?

Maybe...

First, does anyone doubt that God the Father ALWAYS heard Christ’s prayers? "Father, I thank thee that Thou HAST HEARD me. And I knew that thou HEAREST ME ALWAYS..." (John 11:41-42). Okay then, here’s the Scripture

"And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they [everyone -- you, me, the WHOLE WORLD] CRUCIFIED HIM..."

But before our Saviour died, He prayed this prayer: "FATHER ... FORGIVE THEM ... for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:33-34).

Meditate on that verse for a few hours -- or years! My prayer is that not one person reading this will ever forget this verse and Christ’s prayer for the forgiveness of the world's worst of the worst sinners, before any of them even thought to repent.

Now if any of you, in your holier-than-thou self-righteousness, feel that you had no part in the death of your own Saviour, Who died for you and your sins, you will still have to contend with the fact that God honored Christ’s prayer by forgiving those who did, literally, crucify Him, before they ever repented or accepted Him as their Lord and Saviour. Do you think that just maybe our Lord knows something about the future judgment of these, as of yet unrepentant murderers, that is not taught in Christendom today?

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by mee

i think it is more about being cutt-off from future blessings ,not about punishment ,and in the end it is up to Jehovah who he has in his memory when it comes to those who have fallen asleep in death .

A few more for you Brother-
Is it annihilation or permanent sleep that you believe in?
Is everyone who is not a Jehovah's witness going into a permanent sleep? Cut off- isn't that like shunning?

Originally Posted by mee

John 5;28-29 but i think that a person does really show whos side he is on by his attitude and actions . maybe they in the end choose to be cut-off.

Cut-off: folk are meant to choose permanent sleep. "Whos side he is on by his attitude and actions" - so that is enough then? Don't you also expect everyone to join your Church?

If in the Old Testament the Jews believed that the dead ceased to exist consciously then why did God find it necessary to forbid them to practice necromancy (seeking after the dead)? Why would anyone try to make contact with the dead if they believed the dead had no conscious existence?

Can necromancers wake the Dead? According to the Bible they can.


-Br.Bruce

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

A few more for you Brother-
Is it annihilation or permanent sleep that you believe in?
Is everyone who is not a Jehovah's witness going into a permanent sleep? Cut off- isn't that like shunning?




Cut-off: folk are meant to choose permanent sleep. "Whos side he is on by his attitude and actions" - so that is enough then? Don't you also expect everyone to join your Church?

If in the Old Testament the Jews believed that the dead ceased to exist consciously then why did God find it necessary to forbid them to practice necromancy (seeking after the dead)? Why would anyone try to make contact with the dead if they believed the dead had no conscious existence?

Can necromancers wake the Dead? According to the Bible they can.


-Br.Bruce

For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.psalm 37;9


i dont think it means a shunning it means they will not possess the earth,

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

A few more for you Brother-
Is it annihilation or permanent sleep that you believe in?
Is everyone who is not a Jehovah's witness going into a permanent sleep? Cut off- isn't that like shunning?




Cut-off: folk are meant to choose permanent sleep. "Whos side he is on by his attitude and actions" - so that is enough then? Don't you also expect everyone to join your Church?

If in the Old Testament the Jews believed that the dead ceased to exist consciously then why did God find it necessary to forbid them to practice necromancy (seeking after the dead)? Why would anyone try to make contact with the dead if they believed the dead had no conscious existence?

Can necromancers wake the Dead? According to the Bible they can.


-Br.Bruce

Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 19:11-21 indicate that "the goats" cut off in the coming war of God will experience "everlasting cutting-off" in "the lake of fire," which symbolizes permanent annihilation.—Revelation 20:10, 14.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by mee

Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 19:11-21 indicate that "the goats" cut off in the coming war of God will experience "everlasting cutting-off" in "the lake of fire," which symbolizes permanent annihilation.—Revelation 20:10, 14.

Question still to be answered:
If in the Old Testament the Jews believed that the dead ceased to exist consciously then why did God find it necessary to forbid them to practice necromancy (seeking after the dead)? Why would anyone try to make contact with the dead if they believed the dead had no conscious existence?

Can necromancers wake the Dead? According to the Bible they can.

The Sadducees, like the Witnesses, believed in the annihilation of the soul at death. Therefore, Jehovah’s Witnesses should answer the same question Jesus asked the Sadducees, namely, “…have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Matthew 22:31,32). Jesus is here quoting Exodus 3:6 which was spoken several hundred years after the death of these men. But, according to Jesus they are still living.

[Penguin]

To me Hell is either staying in blackness, or being re-born on earth. Never seeing the light of christ and god or attaining that blissful state of peace (aka heaven/paradise)

[mee]

[quote=Bruce Michael;135631]Question still to be answered:
If in the Old Testament the Jews believed that the dead ceased to exist consciously then why did God find it necessary to forbid them to practice necromancy (seeking after the dead)? Why would anyone try to make contact with the dead if they believed the dead had no conscious existence?

quote]
WHY INDEED , because there are many beliefs around at this time ,and back then which were not according to accurate knowledge, and Jehovah did not want his people to be misled by satanic teachings ,that age old teaching that we do not die has been around even back then. and those who listened and acted on Gods words did not get involved with it , but as you say the bible is not silent about it, it talks and tells us what went on . but it is based on a lie that satan started . YOU WILL NOT DIE . Christians to day are warned to have no dealings in spirit mediums and the like just as those back then were forewarned.

[Bruce Michael]

[quote=mee;135691]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Question still to be answered:
If in the Old Testament the Jews believed that the dead ceased to exist consciously then why did God find it necessary to forbid them to practice necromancy (seeking after the dead)? Why would anyone try to make contact with the dead if they believed the dead had no conscious existence?

quote]
WHY INDEED , because there are many beliefs around at this time ,and back then which were not according to accurate knowledge, and Jehovah did not want his people to be misled by satanic teachings ,that age old teaching that we do not die has been around even back then. and those who listened and acted on Gods words did not get involved with it , but as you say the bible is not silent about it, it talks and tells us what went on . but it is based on a lie that satan started . YOU WILL NOT DIE . Christians to day are warned to have no dealings in spirit mediums and the like just as those back then were forewarned.

Nice try Mee but no cigar for you this time. Why would necromancy be banned if it wasn't going to work in the first place?

You can disagree with the Watchtower you know- no one is watching.
Regards,
Br.Bruce

[mee]

[quote=Bruce Michael;135751]

Originally Posted by mee

Nice try Mee but no cigar for you this time. Why would
But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me
be banned if it wasn't going to work in the first place?

You can disagree with the Watchtower you know- no one is watching.
Regards,
Br.Bruce

satan is the great deciever and pretending to be a dead person is just up his street . promoting the age old YOU WILL NOT DIE lie

[Bruce Michael]

[quote=mee;136408]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

satan is the great deciever and pretending to be a dead person is just up his street . promoting the age old YOU WILL NOT DIE lie

Hmmmm- the Devil did it? How do you know he's not deceiving you?
How do you know he's not promoting the "you will die" lie?

And why won't the Watchtower Society let you think for yourself?

If death is a cessation of existence then when Jesus died he ceased to exist. If He ceased to exist, then any “Jesus” who appeared afterward would have to be a facsimile, a clone, a perfect copy, but not possibly could he be the original. So then, how could Jesus, the person who died for our sins, rise from the dead, as the scriptures affirm (1 Cor. 15:4, 12-21)?

Best Regards,
Br.Bruce

[mee]

[quote=Bruce Michael;136464]

Originally Posted by mee

Hmmmm- the Devil did it? How do you know he's not deceiving you?
How do you know he's not promoting the "you will die" lie?

And why won't the Watchtower Society let you think for yourself?

If death is a cessation of existence then when Jesus died he ceased to exist. If He ceased to exist, then any “Jesus” who appeared afterward would have to be a facsimile, a clone, a perfect copy, but not possibly could he be the original. So then, how could Jesus, the person who died for our sins, rise from the dead, as the scriptures affirm (1 Cor. 15:4, 12-21)?

Best Regards,
Br.Bruce

i know that i havent been decieved because we all die everyone one of us. ROMANS 5;12. i think that is very plain to see .

satan was the originator of the first ever lie ,and he said to eve that she would not die if she eat of the fruit . BIG LIE,
we are in a dieing state ever since .


many people have many thoughts about Jehovahs witnesses , but those thoughts are not always according to accurate knowledge . so it seems that you have been listening to inacurate thooughts. and then you have been decieved by them. many people do listen to inaccurate thoughts . so you are not the only one

the fact that Jesus was resurrected by his father Jehovah , and Jehovah being the creator of humans ,it is no big deal to him to resurrect people . and Jehovah will even give his son Jesus great aurthority and power to resurrect others . John 5;28-29. its good isnt it

[Azure24]

Originally Posted by mee

satan was the originator of the first ever lie...

And every lie since... In fact you too have been decieved mee...

NO ONE is going to exprience "Hell" or anything similar to it...

23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28the son of Melki, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,
the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

It clearly states here (at the bottom) that Adam is the son of God. So is Jesus, hence Jesus is the "second" Adam. Which in Adam ALL men were bound to die, as in Jesus "the second Adam" ALL men will be saved from death (in revelation).

[mee]

[quote=Azure24;136532]

NO ONE is going to exprience "Hell" or anything similar to it...
quote]
what are you talking about when you mention hell? if it is hellfire i quite agree. and those in sheol and hades will be resurrected from death . and Jesus is the way

[Bruce Michael]

[quote=mee;136517]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

many people have many thoughts about Jehovahs witnesses , but those thoughts are not always according to accurate knowledge . so it seems that you have been listening to inacurate thooughts. and then you have been decieved by them. many people do listen to inaccurate thoughts . so you are not the only one

In Luke, Jesus says to the thief next to him: "Surely today you will be with me in paradise."

Since you are not allowed to think for yourself Mee, then wouldn't it be more likely that you're being deceived?

Is not the attitude toward the Anointed Remnant by each member of the Great Crowd the determining factor as to whether he individually receives everlasting life, or death, according to the Watchtower of 8-1-81 (p. 26)?


XXX,

Br.Bruce