Hell is a Hoax

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

maybe you are missing the point and do not see that the GOODNEWS that JW are giving out, is not there own thoughts but it is all based on the bible.
And the message is all about GOODNEWS . and people do not change their beliefs for other people they change their beliefs because they want to be more inline with the bible and what it teaches . and getting inline with the purpose of God ,and doing his will is what it is all about .



The bible (Gods word)is like a 2 edged sword and can go very deep and can change out thoughts and actions. and it is always for our benefit .


For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart HEBREW 4;12


All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
2 timothy 3;16-17




JW are only the message bringers , and it is GOODNEWS




What does the expression “feet shod with the equipment of the good news of peace” mean for Christians? (Ephesians 6:15) It means that we are prepared for action. We are ready to share the good news of God’s Kingdom on every suitable occasion. (Romans 10:13-15) yes the bible and what it says leads people to EVERLASTING LIFE


This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. JOHN 17;3

Maybe the faith is ignoring the blatantly obvious according to scriptures:

"...in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,..." (II Thessalonians 1:8,9)

"And if your hand makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into Hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched -- where 'their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.' " (Mark 9:43,44...reinforced by Isaiah 66:24. )


"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels,...'" (Matthew 25:41) " And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life." (Matthew 25:46)

"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead which were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15)

"And being in torment in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame,...' " (Luke 16:23,24)

"But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8:12).

"There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out." (Luke 13:28)

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46)

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you Whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into Hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him." (Luke 12:4-5)

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from His presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:10-15)


"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars -- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)


Pretty hard to miss these passages in the Bible, or to dismiss or consider them as metaphorical.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Maybe the faith is ignoring the blatantly obvious according to scriptures:

"...in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,..." (II Thessalonians 1:8,9)

"And if your hand makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands, to go into Hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched -- where 'their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.' " (Mark 9:43,44...reinforced by Isaiah 66:24. )


"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels,...'" (Matthew 25:41) " And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life." (Matthew 25:46)

"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead which were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15)

"And being in torment in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame,...' " (Luke 16:23,24)

"But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8:12).

"There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out." (Luke 13:28)

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46)

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you Whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into Hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him." (Luke 12:4-5)

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from His presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:10-15)


"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars -- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)


Pretty hard to miss these passages in the Bible, or to dismiss or consider them as metaphorical.

v/r

Q

so what is hell ?, is it what religious teachers have promoted or are the words sheol and hades meaning mankinds common grave . religious leaders have promoted evil thoughts ,but Gods thoughts are not .
and it is God who is able to rescue us from the grave .


And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;(or life) but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen′na.


yes God has the power ,and those in his memory he can bring back to life . our hope rests with him . those in gehenna have no hope of a resurrection they are gone for good , total destruction.

not burning forever but no hope

[Bruce Michael]

If death is annihilation (non-existence) as the Watchtower teaches, then how can there be degrees of punishment as Matthew 10:14,15, and 11:20-24 clearly show? It will be “more tolerable” for Sodom and Gomorrah in the Day of Judgment than for those who saw the mighty works of Jesus. Are there degrees of non-existence?

How could degrees of punishment be either inflicted upon, or felt by, a non-existent or unconscious person? Wouldn’t the dead have to be conscious if there are degrees of punishment?

[Azure24]

Originally Posted by mee

...no hope

There is hope... FOR everyone...

"But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine and which have not known the DEPTHS of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden" (Rev. 2:24).

The DEPTHS of Satan—teaches that what God does mostly, is HATE! He is a God of eternal hatred and vengeance. He is pictured as the chief of hypocrites. He tells mankind to love their enemies, but shows His perverted love toward mankind by torturing most of our loved-ones in fire for all eternity. God’s weak wish of saving all humanity is thwarted by the sovereign power of man’s supposed free will, and thus most of the human race will eternally hate and despise and curse their Creator for ever making them. This teaching of Satan has absolutely no redeeming value to it. God will be remembered eternally for being the greatest failure in the history of the universe. This doctrine is both the most evil and the most stupid teaching ever conceived.

But this is not true...

"But as it is written, ‘What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the human heart conceived, what God has prepared for those who love Him’--these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, even the DEPTHS of God" (I Cor 2:10, Revised Standard Version).

The DEPTHS of God—teaches that what God does and is, is LOVE! He is a God fully capable of bringing the whole human race to repentance through judgments that cause man to learn righteousness. The purpose for man’s creation is to teach him obedience and love, so that he can be molded into the very Image of God Himself and thus be manifested as the Eternal Sons and Daughters of God in the Family of God. God’s plan brings unspeakable happiness to and pleasure to every creature in heaven and earth. God’s plan will be totally successful down to God’s very last wish and desire. Possessing the very character of God and His love for all His creatures is the most marvelous plan ever conceived by our all-wise and Loving God.

Amen to that.

[Azure24]

Satan will not be victorious over the human race by bringing the majority of mankind down into a living eternal hellhole of torture, nor will God be a disgraceful failure in saving the world!

Amen to that.

[Azure24]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

....Who can truly judge you better than self?

"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

Def - Chastened: 1 Correct by Punishment.

We are told that those who will spend eternity in this prison of pain (hell) have themselves chosen to spend eternity there - that God doesn’t send anyone to hell, but that people actually choose, themselves, to go there. Even a fool knows that no person would ever choose such a fate, but theologians (and perhaps others...) must somehow get God off of the hook of responsibility, for surely this place exists and will continue to exist for eternity they assure me.

Most of what happens in Revelation is symbolic

"...and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John" (Rev. 1:1)

What does it mean to "signify?" Certainly this prophecy of the revelation or unveiling of Christ was written down (ver. 19), but it means more than just that. To "signify" has to do with signs and symbols.

In the dictionary:
"to make known by signs or words"
First definition of sign:
"any symbol ...that represents an idea"
That which, being external, represents or signifies something internal or spiritual.
The synonym for sign is: symbol.
There is no mistaking this language. The book of Revelation is written in SYMBOLS! So what is written externally, on paper, in symbols, has a SPIRITUAL meaning and application.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (New International Version)
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

God IS the lake of fire in revelation 'Purifying' us (that's EVERYONE) from sin...

God consumes with fire, the wood, hay and stubble in our lives. The things that don’t deserve to continue. But he REFINES the gold, silver, and precious stones (those doctrines and godly character traits of God’s spirit that abide the fire). It is figurative language, it is an analogy, it is a parable, it is metaphorical (where one thing is called another thing). Our lives have either qualities of character (which are likened to gold and precious stones, things of value to refine and retain), or gross lacks in character (which are likened to wood, hay, and stubble and which are not worthy to retain or preserve).

And just as real literal fire is used to refine and purify gold and precious metals, so God’s SPIRITUAL FIRE refines and purifies us from our sinful and carnal nature. And likewise, as real literal fire is used to burn up wood and stubble, so God’s all consuming SPIRITUAL FIRE will consume and burn up all the impurities in our life. These things MUST DIE. This purging is the SECOND DEATH. And whether the person God subjects to His consuming fire has many good qualities or none, the person himself shall be purged, purified, and SAVED BY GOD’S ALL-CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!! We just read it in God’s Holy Word. How can any deny it? Every person who has ever lived will be subjected to the cleaning fire of God’s spirit.
Make no mistake, God will judge the wicked with great severity. However, ALWAYS FOR A BENEVOLENT PURPOSE:

"With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when Thy judgments are in the earth, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9)

There will come a time when those who only knew how to blaspheme the name of God, will come to LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. They will not just "hear" of righteousness, no, they will actually "LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS"!

The whole book of Isaiah speaks of judgments on Israel and on the nations. But the end of all these judgments is SALVATION TO ALL.

"Look unto me, and BE YE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness [as in, ‘For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,’ I Tim. 2:3-4] , and shall not return, That unto me EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE SHALL SWEAR" (See also: Phil. 2: 9-11 & I Cor. 12:3). (NOTE THE EVERY!)

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE ... I have spoken it, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT"

NO ONE is going to suffer for eternity... The world is what God intended.


Amen to that.

[Bruce Michael]

If death is annihilation is it fair for someone who is an honorable and just man, but is not a Jehovah’s Witness, to receive exactly the same punishment as Adolph Hitler, Judas, or some other great criminal?

[mee]

Originally Posted by Azure24

Satan will not be victorious over the human race by bringing the majority of mankind down into a living eternal hellhole of torture, nor will God be a disgraceful failure in saving the world!

Amen to that.

nice one , but when you say world ,are you meaning the planet or the world of mankind. because the bible does say that those without Godly devotion will not be saved.

Even as the Flood of that time wiped out an entire world of godless people, so the fiery tribulation that climaxes Messiah’s "presence" will rid our globe of those who ignore the Kingdom in favor of ‘doing their own thing.’ Happily, many who have ‘sought first God’s kingdom and his righteousness’ will survive to inherit everlasting life in a paradise earth. Will you be one of these?—Matthew 6:33; 24:37-39; 25:31-46.
Numerous prophecies of the Bible show that the coming "great tribulation" will affect "all the nations" on earth. (Psalm 2:2-9; Isaiah 34:1, 2; Jeremiah 25:31-33; Ezekiel 38:23; Joel 3:12-16; Micah 5:15; Habakkuk 3:1, 12, 13) But there will be survivors!—Isaiah 26:20, 21; Daniel 12:1; Joel 2:31, 32.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

If death is annihilation is it fair for someone who is an honorable and just man, but is not a Jehovah’s Witness, to receive exactly the same punishment as Adolph Hitler, Judas, or some other great criminal?

the bible says that it will be the wicked that will be cut-off from the blessings in the future. and it is only the most high Jehovah and his son Jesus christ who are judging ones, good job about that because i dont want the job i only want the job of making known about GOODNEWS

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

If death is annihilation is it fair for someone who is an honorable and just man, but is not a Jehovah’s Witness, to receive exactly the same punishment as Adolph Hitler, Judas, or some other great criminal?

i think it is more about being cutt-off from future blessings ,not about punishment ,and in the end it is up to Jehovah who he has in his memory when it comes to those who have fallen asleep in death . John 5;28-29 but i think that a person does really show whos side he is on by his attitude and actions . maybe they in the end choose to be cut-off.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Azure24

We are told that those who will spend eternity in this prison of pain (hell) have themselves chosen to spend eternity there - that God doesn’t send anyone to hell, but that people actually choose, themselves, to go there. Even a fool knows that no person would ever choose such a fate, but

Let's stop at the but..... Yes a fool or a NORMAL person lol would choose such a fate.... Look around you, how many know of god/heaven/satan/hell? How many know of this? Now look around you again, how many STILL choose to do what would be "classed" as something to get you down in the hot lands?

I am starting to believe in God again, and AGAIN I still cannot change things I do which destin me to hell lol.... I don't want to change because I like what I am doing..... "but you will go to hell" Then peeeeeeeeer haps that is just meant to be? It says in the bible and it says in the Qu'ran and I am guessing (Guessing!) it says something like this in the Torah... That people will be aware of the consquences for certain actions but will be like 'screw it'..... *shrugs*

[Azure24]

Originally Posted by mee

...but when you say world ,are you meaning the planet or the world of mankind. because the bible does say that those without Godly devotion will not be saved.

Where does it say this? Perhaps you should go back and read my previous posts... The Bible clearly says that EVERY knee shall bow, EVERY tounge shall swear.

Originally Posted by mee

Even as the Flood of that time wiped out an entire world of godless people, so the fiery tribulation that climaxes Messiah’s "presence" will rid our globe of those who ignore the Kingdom in favor of ‘doing their own thing.’ Happily, many who have ‘sought first God’s kingdom and his righteousness’ will survive to inherit everlasting life in a paradise earth. Will you be one of these?—Matthew 6:33; 24:37-39; 25:31-46.

You seem to be taking a lot of this literally... What good will it be for most of man's existence if they are to die wishing they were never born and hating God for it? The flood was the first death, the latter is the second death...

The lake of fire is figurative or symbolic and that the second death is also figurative or symbolic. (have you not noticed that most of the Bible is not to be taken literally?)

It is the only way that these Scriptures on the lake of fire and the second death will harmonize and not contradict the rest of God’s Word. Furthermore, God plainly tells us in chapter one, verse one, that an angel "signified" this whole "Revelation of Jesus Christ" contained in this book. He "SYMBOLIZED" it, for that is what "signifies" means--to make known by signs, and signs are symbols. Therefore it can’t be literal.

Lets now see the symbolism of this prophecy. I will pick out some of the most obvious things that would be impossible to understand literally.

Notice that in verse ten (of Revelation) John informs us that,
"I was IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord’s day..."
And then he begins to tell us what he hears and sees. Now the very fact that he was "in the spirit" on the Lord’s day conclusively proves that he was not literally there! Lets never lose sight of this fact: John WRITES what has been SIGNIFIED (WITH SYMBOLS) the things that he SEES and HEARS IN A VISION--IN SPIRIT!

"And I turned to see the voice that spake with me ... his eyes were as a flame of fire, and his feet like unto fine brass ... And he had in his right hand seven stars and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword..."
NONE of what I underlined is literal. Have you ever "seen a voice?" All these things are symbols that stand for other things. And God immediately gives us proof positive of this in verse 20,

"The mystery [this is not literal--it was a mystery until God tells us that one thing really means or represents another and DIFFERENT THING] of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars ARE THE ANGELS OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest ARE THE SEVEN CHURCHES."

Amen to that.

Numerous prophecies of the Bible show that the coming "great tribulation" will affect "all the nations" on earth. (Psalm 2:2-9; Isaiah 34:1, 2; Jeremiah 25:31-33; Ezekiel 38:23; Joel 3:12-16; Micah 5:15; Habakkuk 3:1, 12, 13) But there will be survivors!—Isaiah 26:20, 21; Daniel 12:1; Joel 2:31, 32.

[/quote]

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Dondi

I'm more prone to think that hell is related to one's existence apart from the Divine. The imagery that Jesus employs seems indicate this. The burning is the indignation of one's heart in rejection of God and His Righteousness. In Hebrews 12:29, we read that God is a consuming fire which occurs because one who is not right with God will always know that he is not right with God and that will eat Him up, as the worm that dieth not, nor the fire quenched, as Mark 9:44 states. Deuteronomy 28:18 hints at this, "Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood"; So there is a sense of foreboding and bitterness knowing you are in that position. It is a condition of the heart towards God, that as long as one is diametrically opposed, there is that sense of wrongness that will gnaw on his spirit. The outer darkness occurs because the heart lives in darkness, as opposed to God's light. The light of God lights the soul of a man, revealing everything open. When one tries to hide from God, that heart is in darkness. We choose the darkness because we enjoy the pleasures of sin, and not the righteousness of God. We are afraid to come into the light, because we know that it will expose ourselves openly toward God. Not that God doesn't already know, but in hiding, we deceive ourselves in thinking that God doesn't know, which makes it all the worse.

Whether Hell is literal fire and brimstone, or a state of the heart, or both, the conditions promises to be most unpleasant either way.

I can sense that even now, when I know I'm not at a place I need to be, not only with God , but also the people around me. I know when I've done wrong. I know when I continue to do wrong. And as long as I keep myself in the darkness, there is that foreboding sense of wrongness that remains until I fess up and decide to get things right. The process is far from easy because it is painful emotionally, but I have found that when one gives it up to God an amazing healing comes to the heart and soul and a sense of cleansing of one's heart brings back the peace that eluded me when I tried to hide it. It is very liberating to know that God will stop prodding you when you turn back to Him. "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God." - I John 3:20-21

We need to get past the superficial imagery of Hell and into the right relationship with God that will take us out of the despair we are in. Heaven and Hell are tried into that relationship between God and our neighbor. And I believe that when we are honest and sincere to God in this regard, He's not gonna care much what religion affiliation you are, His Grace will shine upon you.

Dondi, I would like to expand on your bitter root/wormwood scripture, including the part about a drunkard being considered sober:

Deut 29
14 “I make this covenant and this oath, not with you alone, 15 but with him who stands here with us today before the LORD our God, as well as with him who is not here with us today 16 (for you know that we dwelt in the land of Egypt and that we came through the nations which you passed by, 17 and you saw their abominations and their idols which were among them"—wood and stone and silver and gold); 18 so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, "I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates of my heart"—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober.

Compare to these verses:

Isaiah 5 (reading the whole chapter is suggested)
20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe to men mighty at drinking wine,
Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink,
23 Who justify the wicked for a bribe,
And take away justice from the righteous man!
24 Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble,
And the flame consumes the chaff,
So their root will be as rottenness,
And their blossom will ascend like dust;
Because they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts,
And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Hebrews 12
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

Compare the reference to "root" and "drunkeness" (and irrational--bad basis) to the definition of radical from dictionary.com

rad·i·cal
1.of or going to the root or origin; fundamental: a radical difference. 2.thoroughgoing or extreme, esp. as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company. 3.favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms: radical ideas; radical and anarchistic ideologues. 4.forming a basis or foundation. 5.existing inherently in a thing or person: radical defects of character. 6.Mathematics. a.pertaining to or forming a root. b.denoting or pertaining to the radical sign. c.irrational (def. 5b). 7.Grammar. of or pertaining to a root. 8.Botany. of or arising from the root or the base of the stem. –noun 9.a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist.
10. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.

It does seem as if radicals are consumed by a fire...

[mee]

[quote=Azure24;135510]Where does it say this? Perhaps you should go back and read my previous posts... The Bible clearly says that EVERY knee shall bow, EVERY tounge shall swear.

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quote]



Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 2 peter 3;9


it seems that those who are not repentant will not go on to have future blessings . those who are repentant and on the side of the most high will bend their knee . and he is very patient with us allowing us time to be on the right side
and yes i do agree with you that the book of revelation is highly symbolic and when it speaks of the lake of fire it is not a litral lake of fire it is symbolic

[Azure24]

Ok.