He is Risen!

[seattlegal]

Galatians 5 (good chapter!)

13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

1 Peter 5 (another good chapter!)

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

[cyberpi]

So then the devil roared, and devoured the mosquito.
Whereas Jesus rebuked the mosquito and said, "Devour me".

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Not that which goes into the ear defiles a person, but that which comes out of their mouth.

[pattimax]

There is a nice symmetry in this: Death initially came by a man, and resurrection from death came by a man. Everybody dies in Adam; everybody comes alive in Christ. But we have to wait our turn: Christ is first, then those with him at his Coming, the grand consummation when, after crushing the opposition, he hands over his kingdom to God the Father. He won't let up until the last enemy is down—and the very last enemy is death! 1 Corinthians 15:21-4



Please don't lose sight of the bigger picture ... Christ has devoured death. God truly adores us, remember this only has to be phase one.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by pattimax

There is a nice symmetry in this: Death initially came by a man, and resurrection from death came by a man. Everybody dies in Adam; everybody comes alive in Christ. But we have to wait our turn: Christ is first, then those with him at his Coming, the grand consummation when, after crushing the opposition, he hands over his kingdom to God the Father. He won't let up until the last enemy is down—and the very last enemy is death! 1 Corinthians 15:21-4



Please don't lose sight of the bigger picture ... Christ has devoured death. God truly adores us, remember this only has to be phase one.

I don't know if God adores us. But I have no doubt He loves us. Here is an irony, not every man has died in Adam. I wonder about that. What did they have that God said "I will take you home before death" Yet we are told that every man is appointed to die once.

Not that God can't do as He chooses, but the Bible seems conflicting on the why of this issue. Does anyone know the answer? For example: Abraham died, but Enoch and Elijah did not. Jesus died and rose (ok that was different), but then so did Lazarus. And again so did the little girl, and the son of Peter's friend.

I simply find a confusing irony in what God declares must happen to every man, yet there are exceptions to the rule, with no explanation as to why, unless I'm missing the boat?

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I simply find a confusing irony in what God declares must happen to every man, yet there are exceptions to the rule, with no explanation as to why, unless I'm missing the boat?

Spiritual death vs. physical death?

Or death of egoic self vs. physical death?

Just tossing out a few ideas. I've not thought this through much.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Spiritual death vs. physical death?

Or death of egoic self vs. physical death?

Just tossing out a few ideas. I've not thought this through much.

Don't know. Enoch did not physically die, neither did Elijah. Jesus did, but we are told His spirit was alive and well while He was unfettered by his physical form. Lazurus may have done both, for when he came back, he was confused and complacent. The little girl and little boy needed food after they were raised. How interesting that a dead body revived would require food immediately after the revival, except Jesus'. But His body could not be touched for awhile, because the "transformation" was incomplete. So many variations here to consider...

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I don't know if God adores us. But I have no doubt He loves us.

I looked up the definition of adore in Merriam Webster. There were three: the first said to honor or worship as a deity- Definitely not, I’ll give you that. The second: to regard with loving admiration and devotion, example: He adored his wife, that one is mine, and three : to be very fond of, example: adores pecan pie. I’ll take that one, also.

Here is an irony, not every man has died in Adam. I wonder about that.

Every man DID die in Adam, in the sense we are discussing here. Remember that garden incident back in Genesis? All of us inherited Adam’s disobedience and denial doesn’t change the facts. We were, in a sense (and this is what we are talking about here), born dead spiritually. Some of us just don’t know or acknowledge it, and this is the problem.

What did they have that God said "I will take you home before death" Yet we are told that every man is appointed to die once.

“We”- who? Nobody has told me that. In Hebrews 9:27 , “It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.” Revelation speaks of a second death, so I’m not sure I follow. I think Hebrews may be speaking of a physical death. We are talking spiritual death.

I simply find a confusing irony in what God declares must happen to every man, yet there are exceptions to the rule, with no explanation as to why, unless I'm missing the boat?

It's nice to talk with you Q. Sorry about my vile beginnings at the start of this thread. Ditzy me didn't even see it at first.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by pattimax

I looked up the definition of adore in Merriam Webster. There were three: the first said to honor or worship as a deity- Definitely not, I’ll give you that. The second: to regard with loving admiration and devotion, example: He adored his wife, that one is mine, and three : to be very fond of, example: adores pecan pie. I’ll take that one, also.



Every man DID die in Adam, in the sense we are discussing here. Remember that garden incident back in Genesis? All of us inherited Adam’s disobedience and denial doesn’t change the facts. We were, in a sense (and this is what we are talking about here), born dead spiritually. Some of us just don’t know or acknowledge it, and this is the problem.

“We”- who? Nobody has told me that. In Hebrews 9:27 , “It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.” Revelation speaks of a second death, so I’m not sure I follow. I think Hebrews may be speaking of a physical death. We are talking spiritual death.


It's nice to talk with you Q. Sorry about my vile beginnings at the start of this thread. Ditzy me didn't even see it at first.

Hi Patti!

I'm referring to those humans that never physically died. What of them?

And I think the adore part might be the second one as in adores his wife, though personally I have a hard time with that one. I can't see myself in a white gown before Jesus...so it has to be metaphorical, or else once in heaven there is no gender. Christ is easy for women, not so much for men...

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by wil

No, bite others as they would like to be bitten.

Bite in areas that aren't visible during working hours.

[greymare]

i tried real hard to follow these posts and i have read and reread them over and over. and i still cannot for the life of me, work out what you two were arguing over??? btw.......... how did enoch adnd elijah die but not physically die??? where do i find these stories and where do i find an explanation??

[Dream]

Hey Greymare,

I was just looking through this thread, and I looked up those passages. Both Enoch and Elijah were unusual, because the Bible mentions that they were taken by God, instead of dying. Moses' death is very unusual, too.

Elijah
Elijah was a very famous and influential prophet who lived midway through the Kings period of Jewish history. His prayers were very powerful so he could make big miracles happen. Unfortunately, he became depressed because he wasn't well-liked. He wanted to die, but his duties weren't completed and so God told him to appoint a successor, Elisha. Their names are similar. Its a great story, and in 2 Kings 2:11, Elijah is taken directly into heaven without dying. We are told later, by the prophet Malachi, that Elijah is supposed to return someday. This can be taken 2 different ways, because 2 Kings 2:15 introduces the possibility of another person bearing Elijah's spirit. Its becomes a very important factoid to know when you read about Jesus and John the Baptist in the gospels. John is a type of Elijah.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

2 Kings 2:12-15 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan; And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over. And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

Enoch
There's a short, mysterious snippet about someone named 'Enoch' in Genesis. It appears in the list of ancestors of Noah. Then, there is a little bit more information we get much later from the writer of Hebrews, which is a Christian work. The thing about it is that there are traditional stories about Enoch and also other information about Enoch that we don't have. He was someone that Jewish people knew about. Some poorly preserved and altered copies of a book called Enoch have been found, but that's beyond the purpose of the thread and I don't know much about it.

Genesis 5:23-24 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took
him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by greymare

where do i find these stories and where do i find an explanation??

Start by going to a book store or library and look at different bible commmentaries. You'll run into all sorts of garbage on line, but if that's the most convenient, give it a try, just be careful.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hi Patti!

Christ is easy for women, not so much for men...

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Faith is difficult for everyone. Jesus said we would have trouble and he wasn't kidding.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hi Patti!

I'm referring to those humans that never physically died. What of them?

And I think the adore part might be the second one as in adores his wife, though personally I have a hard time with that one. I can't see myself in a white gown before Jesus...so it has to be metaphorical, or else once in heaven there is no gender. Christ is easy for women, not so much for men...

I think I know why... because the feeling of adoration is so similar to the feeling of being "in love" and Jesus being a male... it would be harder for a male to be ok with it.. and just go with it.. you know? Am I right Q?

[greymare]

i think this one needs a bit further explanation for me.