Hatred In Religion - with Video Footage

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

studies indicate that the US is one of the most punitive first world cultures around

In terms of hate speech, it is quite lenient.

The more people we incarcerate, the more our violence increases.

I am not aware of that being a fact.

I simply look at the evidence and think: "This is not effective. Our methods through law and enforcement are not working...

That may be true in some areas. It would be interesting to see some data on the impact of hate speech legislation on hate crimes. Unfortunately, hate crimes are subject to reporting complications.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by LenoBee

The portion of religious hate is at roughly 16%.

Roughly 16%.

1) What was the variance estimate?

2) Where did the 16% finding come from?

3) Pertaining to what country ?

4) What was the time frame?

5) What are regional reporting trends and how have they changed in response to conditions that would likely affect reporting of hate crimes?

6) How was religious motive established?

7) How was "hate crime" defined?

8) Who compiled the statistics?

[Quahom1]

There is zero hatred in religion. The hatred is in the people that use/practice any particular religion, as an expression of their hatred. Religion without people...doesn't exist.

[Tao_Equus]

LENO,

Thank you for your support........but... but are you related to any previous (over years) posters here whether genetically or socially? I do not ask who......but I would like to know. Not calling you da CYBERMAN.....OR ANYTHING, JUST CURIOUS????????
Soz for caps im 2 lazy to edit.


TAO

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

LENO,

Thank you for your support........but... but are you related to any previous (over years) posters here whether genetically or socially? I do not ask who......but I would like to know. Not calling you da CYBERMAN.....OR ANYTHING, JUST CURIOUS????????
Soz for caps im 2 lazy to edit.


TAO

um, ok, so you hate religion. Got it.

[Netti-Netti]

Religion and philosophy is there to help people develop self-control.

Legal systems likewise are there to help people develop self-control. In addition, legal systems also serve to protect egalitarian democracy from those who have lags in the self-control department. There is no freedom without structure, and some people need structure imposed on them from without because they lack self-control.

As an aside, in real life, people who endorse a freedom-without-government view are control freaks whose actions bespeak the bondage of their attachment to their own self-centered idea of negative freedom - i.e., freedom from external restraints.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Legal systems likewise are there to help people develop self-control. In addition, legal systems also serve to protect egalitarian democracy from those who have lags in the self-control department. There is no freedom without structure, and some people need structure imposed on them from without because they lack self-control.

Isn't that what I said?

Originally Posted by seattlegal

The State and Law is there for people who can't control themselves.

Religion and philosophy is there to help people develop self-control. Since different individuals have different hang-ups regarding self-control, the way to approach it should be left to the individual, and there is a need to share different ideas. Hence, the need for religious freedom and freedom of speech, and for it to have independence from the State.

If the speech includes threats against others, then it would be appropriate for the State to step in and investigate. Otherwise, free debate should be allowed. (Heated debate is another way people can learn self-control, as well as work out any major flaws in their philosophy.)

As an aside, in real life, people who endorse a freedom-without-government view are control freaks whose actions bespeak the bondage of their attachment to their own self-centered idea of negative freedom - i.e., freedom from external restraints.

Where did I say no government? Didn't I say that the State and the Law are there for people who can't control themselves? (Gee, with all these people putting words in my mouth, it makes you wonder just who the control freaks are.)

[Joedjr]

Hi,
My .02. Hatred and racism are learned at the kitchen table. I don't think it's confined to any particular religion or group of people. You are right though, in the churches and temples it is not address but seems to be "swept under the rug".
I find this "a breath of fresh air" BBC NEWS | Europe | Pope urges fight against racism Things like this will help squeeze out, little by little the discolor that resides in some of the hearts, in at least one group of folks.
Joe

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by LenoBee

Dondi, you did the best by examining the material, noting the problem and then addressing it. I applaud you and was impressed.

Path and Will, wonderful to meet you. You are almost there but have a slight bit of denial with hate in religion by attempting to pass it to something else. There are of course other things as you mention, for this one is a bit different to default from. Love does not stop religious hatred or hate in religion because they are not taught to love. Netti or lunamoth (bless you both), please examine the evidence in the videos and tell me what you see happening in each one, or one or the other, when you have time.

For anyone to say hatred is not connected to religion needs to do a serious global update on the law and then have that massive hole in your roof repaired. You do not need science to prove religious hatred or any hate crime. You could use physical evidence such as video, writing, photos, phone logs, text message, subpoena forums like this one. We do not create laws against religious hatred or any hate crime to pretend it does not exist. In fact, those types of crimes, like racism, are viewed with much more severe punishment than trying someone over a personal vendetta for the same crime. We establish the law then prosecute according to the law. Why is the law tougher against hate?

I started this to reveal how topics are being skimmed over, deflected to something else and the core of the problem is not being visited.

You may want to also start with what the FBI has to say about religious hatred, statistics and demographics.

Sweethearts, Do your best.

gosh, how breathtakingly patronising. i am so glad you are here to teach us the errors of your ways and enlighten us with your sagacity and perceptiveness. so far, your case seems to be:

"i live near some jews and they're a bunch of arses and treat me disrespectfully, so judaism must be to blame. ditto christians and muslims, so abrahamic religions must teach hate."

i think you'll find that if someone wants to act like an arse, their religious beliefs may sometimes not be able to stop them doing so. that's humans for you. sometimes jews can be arses, for this very reason. it happens. on the other hand, i think you rather relinquish the moral high ground by saying you wouldn't even help them if a human life was at stake.

nice.

i'm not surprised they've not been back since.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[greymare]

Seems to me, Sherri, Sweetheart, that YOU have a lot of Hatred in you.
But then again, Im not really "qualified" to partake as i dont have a law degree.

In my opinion, People are capable of good and evil. They show us everyday. YOU know that. Some people hide behind their religion to commit crimes etc. Unfortunately, people are human. But then again, Im only a shop assistant and you are not.

I hope you have a great day.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Perhaps not religions "fault". That is a very difficult question to quantify. Certainly looking at the history of at least the Abrahamics it cannot be denied that they lend themselves very easilly to being used to hate. Too easilly. The fatal flaw with religion is that it invokes divine sanction. It places itself above the laws of man and not accountable to them. We, the secular majority that do not want to use religion as an instrument of division and hatred, have to rigerously defend the liberty of man in our laws. Religions and preachers that foster ideals that are not conducive to the liberty of all people should be banned from preaching. Preachers who make knowingly fraudulent claims should be prosecuted as fraudsters. The truth is we are way way to soft on the hatemongers. This has to change.

tao

Agreed. That would be more than half of them banned. We might atcually get to see it in our lifetime with these hate crime laws.

[Bandit]

Yes there is hate in both religion and politics. Yes people in religion teach people to hate. Yes there is hate in religious and political debate. Yes there is hate in religion, bickering, bitterness, insults, fabrications, lies, imagination, superstition... religion also produces massive amounts of fear and war...That is a no brainer.

Two people start talking about religion and two minutes later they are at war. Tolerating everything does not solve all problems but serves like a lid on a pressure cooker. when it gets too hot from those who antagonise using race or religion you do not tolerate it any longer and knock them upside the head....BUT! now all you need is video of their hate (or any crime) and false accusations and you get to call the law on them which is why I have surveillance 24/7 at my business and at my home.
Then of course you have this holier than thou crap and our religion makes us better than everyone else and they sneak around doing all the sin they preach against. That is how they truly think and how they are taught to be. They can shove that too.

I heard on the news not long ago there is also a hate crime law to protect those who choose freedom from religion and I thought that was awesome. I cannot recall what state that was.

It is kind of interesting but also repelling that people in religion are so out of control that it has to be stopped with laws.

The mooshy gooshy love thing will conquer hate thingy is entirely overrated and has never happened to make hate disappear off the radar and if it is true that history repeats itself it is not going to happen. What love and honesty does is grant those who hate and abuse, the ability to take advantage of those who are honest. That is also why I am all for the hate crime laws. The preachers cry it will it take away from freedom of speech which is another religious lie, so they can keep preaching hate.

but yes I do agree with the OP and found from experience that people with their religion under their arm have caused way more harm and hatred than it has ever done good. That is another reason why the numbers of people going to church like they used to is declining while the numbers who reject all religion is on the rise. They are fakey hypocrites and constantly being busted for the same stuff they condemn others for. I for one am all for the hate crime laws because it stops these lunatic religious preachers and their converts from pimping and they will think twice before they thug people with their religious born hatred....or be arrested.
Bottom line, we could live without religion. I do it every day.

I would also submit that while religion is not needed for hatred, religion is also not needed for love to flourish.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by LenoBee

How can so much hate come from these religions?
Is dialog really helping or making matters worse?
Do these people hate by living off of their own fears and bouncing the hatred from person to person and then back onto themselves?

Sherri

Hi Lenobee, with all due respect, you would do better if you took this to real time and printed out a cover letter then inside with your objective, all the facts, laws, your expertise and sent it to all the churches and religious mumbo jumbo in your area explaining what is happening with these new laws and then let them contact you. I feel you would get a better discussion and awareness in real time than you will ever get here. I know religious people are getting arrested for this crap quite often so they might wise up after being punished or by being made aware. That phelps hate religion was slapped with an 11 million dollar fine of which some is to be awarded to the family of the marine but they have not learned a thing because the hatred is too strong. There is no amount of love that is going to cure them either. what they really need is jail time to protect people from their cruelty. HA! Then they cry persecution for their hate god - God Hates You is what phelps preaches.

Is dialogue helping? There is no fact either way on that. It appears to me the world is getting angrier and more hateful so I have my doubts.

Another new one on the market that is having bad hate issues is Scientology.


I watched the videos. Those are actually pretty mellow for what really happens. People are murdered, tortured, houses burned all for their religion because the religion itself teaches fear. That is all quite typical of people in religion. They pretend like they have all this love onstage with social charity while behind the scenes and as soon as soemthing does not go their way in their superstitions, they pick a fight with people to kill them or to intimidate them. People in the same church and religion hate each other and do mean things. So what is the point of having the religion? There is a whole bunch of religious hate going on between hindus and christians in INdia right now...IT NEVER ENDS.
Another one I would like to see fined and jailed are these fakey travling circus preachers like Benny Hinn not because they do hate crimes but because they are frauds. I guess you cannot outlaw entertainment though.

I wrote you back in the PM with an email address ..you can email me from here because I do not get into religion any more. I saw that other thread totally derail with false accusations too. That is just how all religious talk operates. It is without a doubt, literal holy crap. I have one excellent attorney who I have used quite a few times on legal matters and he has helped me win every case. I would not mind making friends with another attorney (as long as we do not talk about religion too much).

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

gosh, how breathtakingly patronising. i am so glad you are here to teach us the errors of your ways and enlighten us with your sagacity and perceptiveness. so far, your case seems to be:

"i live near some jews and they're a bunch of arses and treat me disrespectfully, so judaism must be to blame. ditto christians and muslims, so abrahamic religions must teach hate."

i think you'll find that if someone wants to act like an arse, their religious beliefs may sometimes not be able to stop them doing so. that's humans for you. sometimes jews can be arses, for this very reason. it happens. on the other hand, i think you rather relinquish the moral high ground by saying you wouldn't even help them if a human life was at stake.

nice.

i'm not surprised they've not been back since.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Oh brother. Anyone who owns property has rights and they do not have to tolerate people coming onto it if they do not want them there. That does not make anyone accountable by morals for a neighbors life and death. Due to the location of my land, I have called the law numerous times to have people escorted off my property including one neighbor shooting off her mouth and I will not hesitate to call the law within seconds to have them removed or arrested again. The police department is only 6 blocks away and I do take advantage of my tax dollar.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

(Gee, with all these people putting words in my mouth, it makes you wonder just who the control freaks are.)

A good summary.