Halloween and All Saints Day

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

As far as I know, Samhain never "moved" to October 31 - I'm neither an anthropologist nor a historian, but I believe that in the ancient celtic calendar, days began at sundown, as I think they also do in Judaism. The day begins with rest, to gather energy. Which is why Samhain is considered the wiccan New Year. And as I said earlier, the ghosts show up in the decorations because the boundary between life and death is supposed to be at its thinnest then. But that's also the reason for the evil-spooky idea: the thin boundary can be crossed by harmful spirits as well as beneficial ones. Supposedly that's why the idea of masks and costumes showed up - you didn't want your dead enemies to be able to recognize you.

(Most of my ideas about Halloween/Samhain come from wiccan sources, and I KNOW how historically (in)accurate they usually are, so if anyone more qualified has a better explanation, I am happy to be put in my place).

the part i still dont get is why it became classified as a christian holiday. or are they just suggesting that all saints day is the christian holiday & not halloween?
both holidays seem to be saying the same basic thing.
I HAVE HEARD, that some literally go to a cemetary to meet the spirit of a past loved one during the 31st & 1st & even heard where some may stay there until sun up. (i dont know anyone who has done that but have heard of it.)
i grew up never considering much of a religious theme about it or even thinking twice about it being christian.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

The majority of the people understand not, what Halloween really represents yet follows the people of TV world and Merchandise and just have wool pulled over their eyes....


It all comes from Beltane and Samhaine... which were two festivals by the celts... Beltane on 1st May and Samhaine on the 1st November, Beltane and Samhaine represent Light and Dark. AND NO! Not in some good and evil way... Just the seasons, summer and winter. Beltane - summer, Samehaine - end of summer.. Some where along the way Samhaine moved to november eve (october 31st) and became halloween. Yeah nothing ghostly and evil or scary... just winter is all.... 0O0O0O SPOOKY!!! ... heh please,

i admit i dont fully understand it. but i also must admit that i have been spooked quite a few times. (mostly on purpose). and i have also spooked quite of few people over the years by the element of suprise & stories.
one thing for sure- never spook someone who is in a bad mood or had a bad day OR can get scared real easy. they can get real angry.
like grouchy people.

[_Z_]

Hello bandit.

I still don’t get is why it became classified as a Christian holiday

Because those god damned Christians stole our pagan festivals so as to get the country folk [pagans] into their religion, in much the same way as many churches are built on the sites of pagan temples.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Hello bandit.







Because those god damned Christians stole our pagan festivals so as to get the country folk [pagans] into their religion, in much the same way as many churches are built on the sites of pagan temples.

Hello Z

so that is true & there was a mix of culture & all. but i guess my point is, i dont see anything that remotely qualifies for such a holiday in the bible, (OT or NT) much less make it to the calendar.
from what i know, Australia does not even celebrate Halloween.

hey- you never answered my other question. are you ready for a good scare?

i need some ideas this year. something different

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Originally Posted by Bandit

I HAVE HEARD, that some literally go to a cemetary to meet the spirit of a past loved one during the 31st & 1st & even heard where some may stay there until sun up. (i dont know anyone who has done that but have heard of it.)

Yeah, it's a big holiday in Mexico - Dia de los Muertos (sp?), which means Day of the Dead, and it's a day of celebration for the whole family. Seriously - though I'm not sure if the joyousness stems from the idea that you get to be around your lost loved ones again for a day, or if people celebrate the fact that their relatives are no longer suffering on earth but have reached heaven, or if they're looking forward to the day when they will join their relatives in heaven.

"Halloween" is just a shortening of "All Hallows' Eve", "hallow" in this case meaning the same as "saint". You know, like Christmas Eve is the evening before Christmas Day - All Hallows' Eve is the evening before All Saints' Day.

The Church authorities probably chose Samhain because it was already a day to remember lost loved ones, but as far as I know the justification for the holiday in the first place was that there was a need for a "catch-all" saint's day to honor all the saints who didn't have their own holy day in the Church calendar. I have no idea if it is celebrated in areas where the Orthodox church is influential, or if it's purely a Roman thing.

As for your objection that there's no reference to it in the bible, that's certainly true, but then there's no reference to saints either, is there? Or any of the holidays based on saints such as St. Valentines Day, St. Nicholas' Day, St. John the Baptist, Assumption of Mary, Three Kings Day....

The thing is, the Catholic Church has always considered Church tradition to be as important a source of revelation, or nearly so, as the bible.

[_Z_]

Bandit,



I must have missed your other question, I just had a look but couldn’t see what you meant so if you could remind me…



I don’t scare easy; you are speaking to someone who insists on not having injections at the dentists! And horror movies are more like comedies to me.



What kind of thing are you looking for as concerns scares? Are you having a big Halloween party or something, my wife makes more of Halloween than Christmas. A very loud bang followed by all the lights going off usually does the trick, but may not be advisable these days [terrorists n all]. Ghost hunting in the woods at midnight is always a good one, tell people ‘this is where the witches used to come to perform black magic’, then go the wrong way back and say you are lost, taking the party to a pre-designed enclosure with ‘things’ hanging from trees, with a few hidden friends!



Perhaps that’s a little dark for you eh!



Btw, yes I agree Halloween should not be a Christian festival, some would question if Christmas [winter solstice] should be, as other dates have been put forwards as Christ’s birthday, and it really has become something other than Christian [a bit beyond even pagan gluttony etc.].

Z

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

Yeah, it's a big holiday in Mexico - Dia de los Muertos (sp?), which means Day of the Dead, and it's a day of celebration for the whole family. Seriously - though I'm not sure if the joyousness stems from the idea that you get to be around your lost loved ones again for a day, or if people celebrate the fact that their relatives are no longer suffering on earth but have reached heaven, or if they're looking forward to the day when they will join their relatives in heaven.

"Halloween" is just a shortening of "All Hallows' Eve", "hallow" in this case meaning the same as "saint". You know, like Christmas Eve is the evening before Christmas Day - All Hallows' Eve is the evening before All Saints' Day.

The Church authorities probably chose Samhain because it was already a day to remember lost loved ones, but as far as I know the justification for the holiday in the first place was that there was a need for a "catch-all" saint's day to honor all the saints who didn't have their own holy day in the Church calendar. I have no idea if it is celebrated in areas where the Orthodox church is influential, or if it's purely a Roman thing.

As for your objection that there's no reference to it in the bible, that's certainly true, but then there's no reference to saints either, is there? Or any of the holidays based on saints such as St. Valentines Day, St. Nicholas' Day, St. John the Baptist, Assumption of Mary, Three Kings Day....

The thing is, the Catholic Church has always considered Church tradition to be as important a source of revelation, or nearly so, as the bible.

hmm. very interesting. i guess i just never seen it as anything religious or spiritual before. (except for ghosts & goblins) more or less a fun holiday to get spooked & watch the children have fun the same way I did growing up. so while others are carving a pumpkin to keep a bad spirit away, I am carving one to get scared.

for me, i think if i was going to a cemetary to do somehting like that, it would be on a different day than halloween. so i guess everyone celebrates it all differently- could be because every generation adds there own thoughts into it & that is what different ones remember about it. like you say, the same goes for St Valentines Day.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Bandit,



I must have missed your other question, I just had a look but couldn’t see what you meant so if you could remind me…



I don’t scare easy; you are speaking to someone who insists on not having injections at the dentists! And horror movies are more like comedies to me.



What kind of thing are you looking for as concerns scares? Are you having a big Halloween party or something, my wife makes more of Halloween than Christmas. A very loud bang followed by all the lights going off usually does the trick, but may not be advisable these days [terrorists n all]. Ghost hunting in the woods at midnight is always a good one, tell people ‘this is where the witches used to come to perform black magic’, then go the wrong way back and say you are lost, taking the party to a pre-designed enclosure with ‘things’ hanging from trees, with a few hidden friends!



Perhaps that’s a little dark for you eh!



Btw, yes I agree Halloween should not be a Christian festival, some would question if Christmas [winter solstice] should be, as other dates have been put forwards as Christ’s birthday, and it really has become something other than Christian [a bit beyond even pagan gluttony etc.].

Z

yah. that is the stuff I ma talking about. anything that goes bump & catches people by suprise.
horror movies dont really get me scared. it is more something like a real practical joke that does it for me.
i am not having a party but we would make a good team with some fun tricks together that is for sure. it is hard to find people who really get into it.
i played around with sound over the years & would wait til people get right on the porch then crank the stereo with some odd organ music. that has always worked.
i bought a 6 foot zombie that is going into the bathroom at work to scare the girls. when they flip on the light it starts talking & moving side to side. this thing is uglier than frankenstiens monster.

also, going to a good haunted house that has tunnels usually gets me to jump at least once.

BTW, Disney is supposed to be having all the good funny halloween movies on all month...like the one with bette midler where she plays a witch.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Bandit

ii also must admit that i have been spooked quite a few times. (mostly on purpose). and i have also spooked quite of few people over the years by the element of suprise & stories.
one thing for sure- never spook someone who is in a bad mood or had a bad day OR can get scared real easy. they can get real angry.
like grouchy people.

I used to put up a sign on my door. "keep on knockin on Satan's door, and someone will answer you, and you don't want that." Kids continued and continued to knock though... me and a few old friends dressed in our ritual robes and masks, they keep knocking then boom two goat men come out of the bushes behind them so when I open the door quickly with aggression they jump back into the others arms, were great times I guess.

[17th Angel]

Now adays, I don't really make an effort at all to do anything, My girlfriend wants to put up decorations... So I guess I will have to help.

[Bandit]

here are a couple of fun clips to share with your friends.
turn the Sound Up & Enjoy

Ghost?

http://www.goyk.com/flash.asp?path=1350

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kikia.php

[17th Angel]

A guess before I even look... they show a nice flower or fields or a house and you have to concentate on them? then instanly 0O0O00O0O0O0 a scary face and noise appears? I didn't ruin it did I ? lol

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I used to put up a sign on my door. "keep on knockin on Satan's door, and someone will answer you, and you don't want that." Kids continued and continued to knock though... me and a few old friends dressed in our ritual robes and masks, they keep knocking then boom two goat men come out of the bushes behind them so when I open the door quickly with aggression they jump back into the others arms, were great times I guess.

i have father time mask that i do that with. it has spooked a lot of people, especially adults.
my neighbor across the street goes all out with a cool grave yard, caksets & all.

[17th Angel]

I think the only other thing we put effort into was making "people" models that looked like men and women boys and girls... and we'd attack them with hatchets and smash and chop them up... Iside we filled them with red candy and lirqorice... so it looked like blood and guts lol, then kiddies would pick all up and eat it.... the beautiful innocence of the youth, MAWHAHAHA. Sorry *composes him self again* basically a spooky gory mexican thing, not sure how to spell it pinada? lol

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Hah, Bandit, you got me!

The first one I've seen - it really did air as a commercial in Germany - but I fell for the second one hook, line, and sinker!