Hadith

[~Believer~]

it is true that some verses talking about certain people but when allah say (you who believe) it means muslims anywhere and anytime and how can you follow allah almighty if you don't know how to pray or fast or how you pay zakah and what are the rules for haj Allah made mohammed pbuh an example for humanity to know how we can worship Allah the right way, the way you look at sunnah with disrespect is like you are disrespecting the prophet and therefor disrespecting allah cause you dont pray fast pay zakah and many other as muhammed pbuh used to follow, don't be like the previous disbelievers when they stopped following the laws of allah and the prophets and changed it cause they wanted to follow thier desires and gained allah's wrath i am sorry but islam isn't a cult, may allah guide you

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Yaqinud Din

Read this and think what its saying then look what you have put and your falsehood will be seen by all. You are not a Muslim Gtv13 so don't say apart of are religion.

We do not allow people to call each other false on CR. Please modify your attitude or else your ability to post will be restricted.

[GTv13]

Believer,
You right it does say you who believe, but when it says you who believe obey the Messenger, the verse is not directed to us right now.God the Almighty, is telling us the verse in such way so that the belivers at the time would obey His Message and so obey Prophet Muhammed,those who dont belive and who are not guided they wont obey God Message no matter how much you warn them.God is making sure those who do belive wont make the same mistake and disobey Prophet Muhammed.
You have to understand that Muhammed was a follower of Prophet Abraham,God did not give Prophet Muhammed a new religion but God the Almighty, did comand Prophet Muhammed to follow Abraham and his religion.All the belivers are required to follow Abraham and his religion which is Islam.
Befor Prophet Muhammed there were Muslims and they did not need Sunnah to know how to pray.Islam was passed down to us from Prophet Abraham and of course Prophet Muhammed passed it down to us and so have all the good Muslims.In the Quran we can find how to observe the ablution,when to pray,to bow and to Glorify God the the Almighty.
As well God tells us in the Quran to pay zakat, to fast during Ramadan,and to go to the Hajj.By the way can you point to me a Hadith where is explains how to pray.
The verses below tell us that it is Abraham and Isma'il the founder of Islam,God the Almighty thought them the RELIGIOUS DUTIES that we have now.
YUSUFALI: And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
002.135
YUSUFALI: They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."
PICKTHAL: And they say: Be Jews or Christians, then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the idolaters.
SHAKIR: And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.

I dont look at all the Sunnah with disrespect exept for the obvios made up Sunnah.
I never said anything bad about Sunnah exept we are not required to follow it because it can mislead us.One can not compare Sunnah with the Quran.
Quran is our religious guidence and we should not follow some man made books.Dont you worry that people are forgeting the Quran,Allah Book, and are replacing His Book with Sunnah.Why do you think we have so many Islamic sects today?Is it because of the Quran or the Sunnah,well the answer is obvious.Do you know that Sunnah differes from sect to sect and they all call it the truth with no way of knowing it for sure.
Sunnah is part of Prophet Muhammed history and I accept it as such and I also know that there is way more false Sunnah than true one,so I dont have a reason to guess.
I accept the Bible and the Torah as God Books just like all the Muslims are suppose to.But as we all know Bible and the Torah have been corrupted by people over time,I belive in the Books since it are Books from God but I cant accept everything in it since not everythinng in it, is, as it was.
Now why on earth would anybody think that Sunnah can not misguide anyone.
Laws of Allah are in his Book the Quran not Sunnah.Is not wise to compare Book of Allah the Most Wise with books writen by human beings.
peace.

[Friend]

Originally Posted by GTv13

Im sorry friend but you wrong,Hadith are not the part of our religion.
002.135
YUSUFALI: They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

Read the above verse from the Quran.As you can see God is telling us to follow the Religioun of Prophet Abraham,by the way he did not follow Prophet Muhammed Hadith yet he was one of the best Muslims.
002.127-002.128
YUSUFALI: And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised thee foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

The verses above tell us that it is Abraham and Isma'il the founder of Islam,God the Almighty thought them the RELIGIOUS DUTIES that we have now.Befor Prophet Muhammed people prayed as Muslims they did not need any Prophet Muhammed Hadith.
The way we should pray has been passed down to us from Prophet Abraham not Muhammed,you have to understand this.
But of course Prophet Muhammed passed it down to us and so have all the good Muslims .
peace.

I see you took these verses out of context , if you complete the next verses

After (127 -128) which is 129 from the same sura you will read the pray of our prophet Abraham (PUH) for Allah to send prophet in that area:

129. "Our Lord! Send amongst them and Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

All prophets sent from Allah to present the same message, but the main different between them that all prophets sent to certain people in certain time except our prophet Mohammad for all people and at all times
,
our prophet Mohammad as Allah said in( 2:129) sent with the book Al Quraan ( the scripture ) and The Hadieth (wisdom ) which explain how to be good Muslim (Islamic values) , how to pray , how to fast ,how to make hajj , how to clean your self ......... I mean in practically ways.



Islam started from the time of our father Adam (PUH) and all prophets was Moslems, Mohammad ( SAAW) was the final prophet sent to give us the final message of Allah with Al Quraan ,,, and Allah give him

A wisdom which is should be followed to be a real Muslim.



Please don't explain AlQuraan verses without returns to the context, if you read them in Arabic language you will see the real meaning of those verses

Islam is a religion of all people; Mohammad is one of the great Messengers

But he took the big responsibility to present Islam to all people .

Thanks

[GTv13]

I see you took these verses out of contex?

Im not sure what you mean.
The verse 2.129 does not contradict with what I said.
002.129
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
PICKTHAL: Our Lord! And raise up in their midst a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Thy revelations, and shall instruct them in the Scripture and in wisdom and shall make them grow. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Our Lord! and raise up in them a Messenger from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.

You right,we can read in the verse that Prophet Abraham is praying to God to send Messengers to the people after him so that people can be rightly guided.
You should note that Prophet Abraham was praying to God to send Messengers so that they can recite to the people God revelations.The Books of wisdom are God Books.Prophet Muhmmed was the last Messenger out of many and they all thought the same religion,the religion of Abraham.

All prophets sent from Allah to present the same message, but the main different between them that all prophets sent to certain people in certain time except our prophet Mohammad for all people and at all times

Prophet Muhammed was sent to the people with him at the time as well for all the people after him,which includes us.

our prophet Mohammad as Allah said in( 2:129) sent with the book Al Quraan ( the scripture ) and The Hadieth (wisdom ) which explain how to be good Muslim (Islamic values) , how to pray , how to fast ,how to make hajj , how to clean your self ......... I mean in practically ways.

Im sorry your explenation of the verse is not good.Look it up above you have 3 different translations.There is no mention of the Hadith.Prophet Muhammed was not the only one who recieved a Book from God the Almighty.God sent Prophet Moses as well Jesus both with a Book,after Prophet Abraham.Remeber our religion does not come from Prophet Muhammed.But Prophet Muhammed did purify our religion for us and he left us the wisdom the Quran.

Islam started from the time of our father Adam (PUH) and all prophets was Moslems, Mohammad ( SAAW) was the final prophet sent to give us the final message of Allah with Al Quraan ,,, and Allah give him

A wisdom which is should be followed to be a real Muslim.

Yeah you right all the Prophets were Muslims including Prophet Adam,but befor Abraham the Muslims did not pray as the people after Prophet Abraham,it is Prophet Abraham to who God gave all the religious duties we have now not Prophet Muhammed.Prophet Muhammed was Prophet Abraham follower as have all the other Messengers after Abraham.
You right Prophet Muhammed was sent to give us the finel Message and that Message is the Quran as you said.Well thats what Im saying all along.I accept and follow Prophet Muhammed Message and thats the only Message he left us the Quran.

Please don't explain AlQuraan verses without returns to the context, if you read them in Arabic language you will see the real meaning of those verses

You right but you still failed you prove your point,it is your explenation of the verse that is not true to its meaning.I never change the verses but only write mine comment below it.
Speaking about taking verses out of context well guess what there is a very clear verse right after the verse 2.129 which you failed to mention,but thanx for you telling me being out of context I found it.
002.130
YUSUFALI: And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.
PICKTHAL: And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself? Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.
SHAKIR: And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
God tells us it is the religion of Abraham as you all can see.

Islam is a religion of all people; Mohammad is one of the great Messengers

true.

But he took the big responsibility to present Islam to all people .

True,all the Prophets and Messengers had a big responsebility some more than others.
peace.

[Friend]

GTv13
Sorry ..but you made me smile when I read your reply.. what do you want to prove that prophet mohamaad hadieth is worthless ,,,,, and this is not acceptable because we have trust in what our prophet said and did especially those hadieths which have references and classified as hassan or have a degree of agreement between scientists of hadieths .


you should know that my mother language is Arabic and i can understand what I'm reading without these translation ,,, and Allah tell us to follow our prophet mohammad .In Islam we know that Al Quraan is a pure book without any corruption ,, while Hadieths are not pure and some bad people fabricated many hadieths ,, earlier Muslims knew that and started to put standard to recognize the right hadieth from the wrong one ... this is what we told " The science of Hadieth " ,,, so we can know the degree of acceptance of any hadieth .

if you permit me ??I have questions for you ,, Are you Muslim ?? if you so from what time ?? and how you became that ??



Thanks

[GTv13]

Sorry ..but you made me smile when I read your reply.. what do you want to prove that prophet mohamaad hadieth is worthless ,,,,, and this is not acceptable because we have trust in what our prophet said and did especially those hadieths which have references and classified as hassan or have a degree of agreement between scientists of hadieths .

I want to prove that we dont have to follow Hadith and the Sunnah,not try to prove that its worthless,there is a difference.
You say you have trust in the Hadith which are brought to you by the people and I say I have trust in the Quran which is brought to us by Prophet Muhammed.
Is not just that most of the Hadith is corrupt but the fact that God tells us not to folow anything but the Quran is why I dont want to follow anything beside it.
Here are some verses from the Quran.
069.040 -069.047
YUSUFALI: That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger;
YUSUFALI: It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe!
YUSUFALI: Nor is it the word of a soothsayer: little admonition it is ye receive.
YUSUFALI: (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.
YUSUFALI: And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
YUSUFALI: We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
YUSUFALI: And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:
YUSUFALI: Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).
The verse clearly states that Muhammed the Messenger cant invent anything in Allah name.But he only thought us which has been revealed to him by God the Quran.
006.019
YUSUFALI: Say: "What thing is most weighty in evidence?" Say: "Allah is witness between me and you; This Qur'an hath been revealed to me by inspiration, that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can ye possibly bear witness that besides Allah there is another Allah?" Say: "Nay! I cannot bear witness!" Say: "But in truth He is the one Allah, and I truly am innocent of (your blasphemy of) joining others with Him."
In this verese we can read that God the Almighty has revealed the Quran to Prophet Muhammed so that Prophet Muhammed can warn us and all whom it reaches with the Book revealed to him by God,the Quran and not nothing else is mentioned.
006.114
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

This verse tells us not to seek any other judge but Allah,and to have Allah be our Judge we have to follow his Book not any other book.God also tells us that the Quran is explained in detail,it has everything we need in it to be our guide.

YUSUFALI: These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

In this verse God tells us not to follow anything else when we have his Book which is the guide for us.On the other hand is safe to say,following the Hadith is guesswork and you never know for sure if you can believe in it 100% or not.

Those are just some verses I dont want post to much.

you should know that my mother language is Arabic and i can understand what I'm reading without these translation ,,, and Allah tell us to follow our prophet mohammad .In Islam we know that Al Quraan is a pure book without any corruption ,, while Hadieths are not pure and some bad people fabricated many hadieths ,, earlier Muslims knew that and started to put standard to recognize the right hadieth from the wrong one ... this is what we told " The science of Hadieth " ,,, so we can know the degree of acceptance of any hadieth .

You have to understand that God sent the Quran to all the people not just Arabs or those who speak Arabic.God knows full well the future as well He knows that most people wont be speaking Arabic.Of course the Quran sounds best in Arabic as well is easyer to understand in Arabic but the translations still have the same meaning unless is been bad translated.
All the verse I posted are translations from the Arabic translated by those who spoke both languages and they translated it so that it preservs its original meaning.
If you think you are better translator than most people than let see your translation of the verses.
Remembrer Hadith are writen by people about 200 years later after Prophet Muhammed unlike the Quran which is writen the way God wanted it to be writen.That is why every sura, and every verse ,as well latter, is numbered in order.Hadith dont have any order but instead people just pick out Hadith out of many and than proclaim it true with no way of knowing it for sure.
Ever read how they say thay verify the Hadith,umm.. I think thay look back many generations at the people from who the Hadith come from than if they find out they have lied even once they dont proclaim the Hadith as being 100% true.You call that The science of Hadieth ?
Now lets face it, is such a thing even possible how can any human being look back at people and pretend like he knows sombeody never lied in his life. There is just know way, only God knows for sure who lies and who dont.

Here are some more verses from the Quran, you lett me know what they mean if Im wrong.
042.048
YUSUFALI: If then they run away, We have not sent thee as a guard over them. Thy duty is but to convey (the Message). And truly, when We give man a taste of a Mercy from Ourselves, he doth exult thereat, but when some ill happens to him, on account of the deeds which his hands have sent forth, truly then is man ungrateful!
013.040
YUSUFALI: Whether We shall show thee (within thy life-time) part of what we promised them or take to ourselves thy soul (before it is all accomplished),- thy duty is to make (the Message) reach them: it is our part to call them to account.
005.099
YUSUFALI: The Messenger's duty is but to proclaim (the message). But Allah knoweth all that ye reveal and ye conceal.
PICKTHAL: The duty of the messenger is only to convey (the message). Allah knoweth what ye proclaim and what ye hide.
SHAKIR: Nothing is (incumbent) on the Messenger but to deliver (the message), and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide.
As we can see in those verses Prophet Muhammed duty was to deliver the Message the Quran.
What about this verse what does it mean?
025.030
YUSUFALI: Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."
PICKTHAL: And the messenger saith: O my Lord! Lo! mine own folk make this Qur'an of no account.
SHAKIR: And the Messenger cried out: O my Lord! surely my people have treated this Quran as a forsaken thing.
As we can see Prophat Muhammed will say my people have deserted the Quran he doesnt mention any Hadith.By the way his people are the Muslims as far as I understand.
Bottom line we can not compare any book with the Quran and let it be our religios guidience and with that ignore the Quran,it is idol worship.

if you permit me ??I have questions for you ,, Are you Muslim ?? if you so from what time ?? and how you became that ??

I was born in Bosnia.
And no Islam is not knew to me I was born into a muslim family and they named me Muhamed.I went to the mosque as a kid back in Bosnia. I think I was about 6,7, back than when I first started attending the mosque now Im 25 tho.By the way Im not the best Muslim but I try to be I dont pray all the time.I hope God helps me and strengtens my faith.
As well I hope God helps all the good people and belivers in Him.
I was grown up into a Sunni family but now I can see that Sunnis are wrong.I just cant ignore the Quran and the facts.
There is no need to call ourself names but only Muslims.Most people dont even know that God tells us in the Quran how to do the washing befor the prayer,due to books other than the Quran.As well the proclemation of faith is wrong we should not say it any other way than the way is writen in the Quran.
peace.

[thipps]

h| GTv13,
I've been following this discussion and i have to say that i havent seen anything compelling from you GTv13.
Everything you say is based on personal interpretation of verses. for the sake of argument, if your opponents are not allowed to use hadith, then they can easily say that these verses mean something else which will disprove your point. and you dont have any real evidence to prove them wrong. i'll give you an example from your last post. You quoted 3 translations for 25.030. Ill just post Yusuf ali's.
Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."
Then you said, "As we can see Prophat Muhammed will say my people have deserted the Quran he doesnt mention any Hadith.By the way his people are the Muslims as far as I understand."
Now, I'll say what Yusuf Ali said in his commentary of this verse. he says that: "My people" are ofcourse the unbelieving Quraish. They treated the Quran with neglect, i.e., something to be discarded.

So, the interpretation of 'my people' changes from "Muslims" to "unbelieving Quraish". hardly the same thing.
So, in the end, all said and done, its a no-win situation for you.
my two cents.
regards,
thipps

[GTv13]

Everything you say is based on personal interpretation of verses. for the sake of argument, if your opponents are not allowed to use hadith, then they can easily say that these verses mean something else which will disprove your point.

The verse you mentioned 25.30 I posted above with 3 different translations all have the same meaning even tho all the 3 verses use different words,would you agree.
Why would you want to use the Hadith if we are talking about the Quran?
My own inerpretation, Im sure thats easy to say,I dont ever try to change the verses meaninng.

and you dont have any real evidence to prove them wrong. i'll give you an example from your last post. You quoted 3 translations for 25.030. Ill just post Yusuf ali's.

Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."

Then you said, "As we can see Prophat Muhammed will say my people have deserted the Quran he doesnt mention any Hadith.By the way his people are the Muslims as far as I understand."

Now, I'll say what Yusuf Ali said in his commentary of this verse. he says that: "My people" are ofcourse the unbelieving Quraish. They treated the Quran with neglect, i.e., something to be discarded.

So, the interpretation of 'my people' changes from "Muslims" to "unbelieving Quraish". hardly the same thing.

So, in the end, all said and done, its a no-win situation for you.

my two cents.

regards,

thipps

Remember no one can make verses in the Quran say what they want it to say, as you like to claim.I dont get it where you get the Quraish from.
As you can see you are using your own inerpetation.Weren't the Quraish Prophet Muhammed enemies for the most part?
Now lets look at the verses and try to understand when will Prophet Muhammed say the verse 25.30.
025.027
YUSUFALI: The Day that the wrong-doer will bite at his hands, he will say, "Oh! would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Messenger!
025.028
YUSUFALI: "Ah! woe is me! Would that I had never taken such a one for a friend!
025.029
YUSUFALI: "He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!"
025.030
YUSUFALI: Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."
PICKTHAL: And the messenger saith: O my Lord! Lo! mine own folk make this Qur'an of no account.
SHAKIR: And the Messenger cried out: O my Lord! surely my people have treated this Quran as a forsaken thing.
As we can see above it will be said at the day of judgment.
Now there is just no way, anyone can claim that Prophet Muhammed will mean just the Quraish when he says my own people,or my people.

So, the interpretation of 'my people' changes from "Muslims" to "unbelieving Quraish". hardly the same thing.
So, in the end, all said and done, its a no-win situation for you.
my two cents.

All I have to say,are you sure?Who is trying to make the verse say what they want?
peace.

[Friend]

Hi all

These are Quranic verses show the status of our prophet mohammad and his guidance in Islam :
.................................................. ...
3:32. Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.

7:158. day: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."

8:24. O ye who believe! give your response to Allah and His Messenger, when He calleth you to that which will give you life; and know that Allah cometh in between a man and his heart, and that it is He to Whom ye shall (all) be gathered.

33:36. It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
49:1. O Ye who believe! Put not yourselves forward before Allah and His Messenger. but fear Allah. for Allah is He Who hears and knows all things.


49:2. O ye who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as ye may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and ye perceive not. 49:3. Those that lower their voices in the presence of Allah's Messenger,- their hearts has Allah tested for piety: for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward. "

...........................................
GTv13 , these verses show why we must follow our prophet Mohammad (PUH). I think you must be careful from those whom want to destroy our Islamic teaching with some argument just to let themselves do what they want .

Best Regards

[GTv13]

GTv13 , these verses show why we must follow our prophet Mohammad (PUH). I think you must be careful from those whom want to destroy our Islamic teaching with some argument just to let themselves do what they want .

I like to think little different.We cant follow Prophet Muhammed but we can follow his Message dont you agree.Or what do you mean by following Prophet Muhammed.God also tells us in the Quran than we have a great example in Abraham to follow as well those with him.But God trully means follow there religion not them, since we cant follow them now.
The verse 49.2 is cleary directed to the belivers at the time of Prophet Muhammed,remember we can not speak to Prophet Muhammed now, in this time..
I trully would like to know the truth in the verse 7.158 Some say,
unlettered Prophet,some say Ummi Prophet others say the gentile Prophet, so who is right what do you think.Was Prophet Muhammed able to read and write or not.By the way do you belive that evey male Muslim is required to have a beard as some Hadith claim.And if so why.
I hope you careful too, friend.
peace.

[PluckyAli]

First of all Relax everyone,

If millions of people are saying ww1 and ww2 happend,then i bet ww1 and ww2 indeed happend.Millions of people can't be wrong.The same goes for hadiths,if millions of people are saying the particular hadith is authentic and is from prophet muhammad then we have a strong evidence that hadith is from Muhammad and so we have to follow it.

And why should we follow prophet muhammad ?.
First of all Quran says "obey Allah and obey the messenger",second reason and the most important is a prophet doesnot say anything from himself,what he says is revelation from God through an angel.

p.Ali

[PluckyAli]

As I said befor we can not obey Prophet Muhammed because he has died,peace be upon him.

It would help if you would stop contradicting yourself.I have taken this message from post# 16.After the above statement your next statement is below

But we can obey and follow his Message and that Message is the Quran alone.

I hope this is obvious.Btw whoever told you quran is Prophet Muhammad message was a brilliant scholar(i hope you can understand simple sarcasm).

p.ali

[GTv13]

If millions of people are saying ww1 and ww2 happend,then i bet ww1 and ww2 indeed happend.Millions of people can't be wrong.The same goes for hadiths,if millions of people are saying the particular hadith is authentic and is from prophet muhammad then we have a strong evidence that hadith is from Muhammad and so we have to follow it.

Bad exampels,comparing world war 1 and 2 with the Hadith dont make any sense.Millions of people have no way of knowing which Hadith is 100% authentic as you saying.Most Hadith come from one /two persons,or more.So you me or anybody else exept for those people who brought us the Hadith have no way of knowing if what they tell us is 100% true or not.
So millions of people who are following the Hadith are following the books of those who wrote the Hadith.So one has to put his trust in those people if one follows the Hadith.Of course we all can guess and feel what Hadith is right and which is not but thats not the same as knowing it for sure.
Millions of People belive in trinity but that dont make them right.
Anyway your point is not good,we should not follow the majority but that what is right.

And why should we follow prophet muhammad ?.

Where did I ask this question, please let me know I dont know where?Well I know where you got this question from but trully if you can think clearly you should know that is not what I ment,you changed my question, WHY?.???
Its just not fair.

First of all Quran says "obey Allah and obey the messenger",second reason and the most important is a prophet doesnot say anything from himself,what he says is revelation from God through an angel.

You right obeying Prophet Muhammed was Obeying Allah the Almighty since it is Allah who sent us the Messanger to teach us our religion.But those verses that say obey Alllah and obey the messenger was directed at the people at the time of Prophet Muhammed.Remember most people did not belive at first at the time of Prophet Muhamed that is why God is telling them to obey Prophet Muhammed and that he is indeed speaking the truth.

It would help if you would stop contradicting yourself.I have taken this message from post# 16.After the above statement your next statement is below

How am I contradicting myself,go ahead you can explain.
But again look obeying or following Prophet Muhammed the person is impossible for anybody right now,dont you agree.I cant see how one couldnt agree.
But thats what you people keep saying when you say we have to obey Prophet Muhmmed.
Again as I said many times befor we can follow or obey Prophet Muhammed Message the Quran.Thats not contradicting.
On the other hand we can obey God the Almighty at all times,God is always with us,we can obey His Book as well we can obey God directly.

I hope this is obvious.Btw whoever told you quran is Prophet Muhammad message was a brilliant scholar(i hope you can understand simple sarcasm).

I dont understand,let me know what you mean.
peace.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by GTv13

As we can see above it will be said at the day of judgment.
Now there is just no way, anyone can claim that Prophet Muhammed will mean just the Quraish when he says my own people,or my people.

I wont waste time trying to show you how 'my people' can refer to the unbelieving Quraish. Why? cause as far as i can see, you are contradicting your first explanation of 'my people'. First you said it referred to the Muslims. Now, you say that it doesnt mean just the Quraish implying that 'my people' are muslims plus non-muslims.