God's Place in Universe - Theory

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by mee

the most high God(JEHOVAH )was not created , because as his name itself tells us HE CAUSES TO BECOME

(Je·ho´vah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah´ (become); meaning "He Causes to Become"].



And as we all know, Jesus was the first-born of creation , He was the first thing that Jehovah created alone , the very first thing. But everything else created, was through this first-born .


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; colossians1;15


And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God, REVELATION 3;14


(Proverbs 8:22) "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.


Yes ,Jesus is the first-born of creation ,and Jehovah alone created Jesus .


but no one created Jehovah

God exists as both as the [eternal] aspects of existence, and as finite [parts] of existence.

"Everything that exists is in a state of constant motion. This includes mind -matter, and spirit. Birth, rebirth, and transformation are simply the [finite] qualities of things that exist [within] existence."

[This is the nature of change - life - change is the only constant]

Nothing can cease to exist, only change through the law of motion.

[God is all that exists]

That is my view....

Love,

James

[mee]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

God exists as both as the [eternal] aspects of existence, and as finite [parts] of existence.

"Everything that exists is in a state of constant motion. This includes mind -matter, and spirit. Birth, rebirth, and transformation are simply the [finite] qualities of things that exist [within] existence."

[This is the nature of change - life - change is the only constant]

Nothing can cease to exist, only change through the law of motion.

[God is all that exists]

That is my view....

Love,

James

ok, that is your view, but what does the bible teach us , as christians we would be very interested to know what the bible really teaches, if we are christians wanting the truth inline with the bible.


after all the bible is the way to go. i like as a christian to stick to what the bible teaches ,but many people such as you say have your own views.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by mee

ok, that is your view, but what does the bible teach us , as christians we would be very interested to know what the bible really teaches, if we are christians wanting the truth inline with the bible.


after all the bible is the way to go. i like as a christian to stick to what the bible teaches ,but many people such as you say have your own views.

Scripture teaches that God is all in all. I'll quote what I posted in another post...

If God is truly only a [part] of existence, then that would make Him subject to outside influence, and thus make Him less than All. Scripture tells us that God is [All] in all. 1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

This says a great deal to me about God, saltmeister. The word [all] here is, "pas", which means "the whole", "all", "everything", and to balance it out -"Everyone".

I won't call myself a pantheist, as I'm not certain what it is, but if Pantheism suggests that God is all things, then I'm at least, in part, a pantheist, lol. [All in all] Is more than just creative language, or poetics. It implies something very real.

1) that God is "everything"

2) that God will be in "everyone" through Christ, or Spirit of Christ

Love,

James

[mee]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Scripture teaches that God is all in all. I'll quote what I posted in another post...

If God is truly only a [part] of existence, then that would make Him subject to outside influence, and thus make Him less than All. Scripture tells us that God is [All] in all. 1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

This says a great deal to me about God, saltmeister. The word [all] here is, "pas", which means "the whole", "all", "everything", and to balance it out -"Everyone".

I won't call myself a pantheist, as I'm not certain what it is, but if Pantheism suggests that God is all things, then I'm at least, in part, a pantheist, lol. [All in all] Is more than just creative language, or poetics. It implies something very real.

1) that God is "everything"

2) that God will be in "everyone" through Christ, or Spirit of Christ

Love,

James

regarding 1 corinthians 15;27 if we read from verse 24 we can see that this is refering to the time when Jesus will hand the kingdom back to his father, after he has acomplished everything that the father wants Jesus to do .

24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.1 corinthians 15;24-28............. nice .....and as we can see even death will be brought to nothing.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by mee

regarding 1 corinthians 15;27 if we read from verse 24 we can see that this is refering to the time when Jesus will hand the kingdom back to his father, after he has acomplished everything that the father wants Jesus to do .

24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.1 corinthians 15;24-28............. nice .....and as we can see even death will be brought to nothing.

I'm of the mind that God's kingdom will be the result of all people living in Harmony with Him, through Christ. At which time God will be in all via His Spirit. To me, It [clearly] states that God is ALL, and will be in all once everyone/thing has been put under Christs authority.

[All in all]

Everyone will know the one true God, and through the Spirit, will live in harmony with all things.

[Makes sense to me]

Love,

James

[mee]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I'm of the mind that God's kingdom will be the result of all people living in Harmony with Him, through Christ. At which time God will be in all via His Spirit. To me, It [clearly] states that God is ALL, and will be in all once everyone/thing has been put under Christs authority.

[All in all]

Everyone will know the one true God, and through the Spirit, will live in harmony with all things.

[Makes sense to me]

Love,

James

Gods kingdom is a real goverment and it is that goverment that will bring peace to the earth. and Jesus is the reigning king of it. READ Daniel 2;44


And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; DANIEL 2;44



And as you say getting to know the true God and his son Jesus christ leads to EVERLASTING LIFE John 17;3



This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. John 17;3

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

regarding 1 corinthians 15;27 if we read from verse 24 we can see that this is refering to the time when Jesus will hand the kingdom back to his father, after he has acomplished everything that the father wants Jesus to do .

24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.1 corinthians 15;24-28............. nice .....and as we can see even death will be brought to nothing.

Maybe in your bible Mee, but not in the standard versions.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Maybe in your bible Mee, but not in the standard versions.

have a look then , see what it says in the other translations , i think you will find that the bible tells us Jesus plays a very big part in the kingdom, and what it is going to accomplish on the earth , even swallowing up death .


and then Jesus will hand the kingdom back to his father , everything is subject to Jesus other than the father Jehovah



24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION



Yes we can see that the father has GIVEN Jesus great aurthority ,as we can also see in Daniel 7;13-14


"I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.


yes it was GIVEN to Jesus by the Father JEHOVAH

[mee]

i like the way that the NEW ENGLISH BIBLE puts 1 corinthians 15;24-28

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

have a look then , see what it says in the other translations , i think you will find that the bible tells us Jesus plays a very big part in the kingdom, and what it is going to accomplish on the earth , even swallowing up death .


and then Jesus will hand the kingdom back to his father , everything is subject to Jesus other than the father Jehovah



24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION



Yes we can see that the father has GIVEN Jesus great aurthority ,as we can also see in Daniel 7;13-14


"I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.


yes it was GIVEN to Jesus by the Father JEHOVAH

I did.

"...For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28

"...You made him ruler over the works of your hands;
you put everything under his feet:" Psalm 8:6

It never says He gives it back to the Father. Nor does it say the Father does the dirty work of fighting the bad guys. It specifically states that when all is done He will be made subject to the Father, so that "GOD" may be "all in all".

All in all means, One. And I believe Jesus has said on several occasions that He and the Father "are" One, already.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

All in all means, One. And I believe Jesus has said on several occasions that He and the Father "are" One, already.

yes Jesus and his father are certainly one in purpose and thought . just as Jesus followers are in unity as well . they are all working inline with God . and Jesus has a very big part in the outworking of Gods purpose for the earth .



I and the Father are one.(Or, “at unity.” Lit., “one (thing).” Gr., hen, neuter, to show oneness in cooperation.) JOHN 10;30



And now in the stream of time that we are in now , Jesus is a reigning king in the heavenly kingdom DANIEL 7-13-14 DANIEL 2;44


And when all things are acomplished Jesus will hand the kingdom back to his father.


in Daniel 2;44 it says ....the God of heaven will set up a kingdom ....


Jesus has been GIVEN kingship, he is the one with the legal right to that kingship . yes Jesus has a very big part to play .



everything will be subject to him , it is only Jehovah God that is not subject to him .


thats because JEHOVAH IS THE MOST HIGH.


That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth. PSALM 83;18

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I did.

"...For he "has put everything under his feet." .

Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet.



The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:]
“Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”
PSALM 110 ;1-2


The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.JOHN 3;35


And as Jesus himself said, the father is greater than him .


YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. JOHN 14;28

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Could the universe have come into existence from nothing? Nothing means absolutely NOTHING

Does it?
noth·ing /ˈnʌθɪŋ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nuhth-ing]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.no thing; not anything; naught: to say nothing. 2.no part, share, or trace (usually fol. by of): The house showed nothing of its former magnificence. 3.something that is nonexistent. 4.nonexistence; nothingness: The sound faded to nothing. 5.something or someone of no importance or significance: Money is nothing when you're without health. 6.a trivial action, matter, circumstance, thing, or remark: to exchange a few nothings when being introduced. 7.a person of little or no importance; a nobody. 8.something that is without quantity or magnitude. 9.a cipher or naught: Nothing from nine leaves nine. 10.(used in conventional responses to expressions of thanks): Think nothing of it. It's nothing. Nothing to it. –adverb 11.in no respect or degree; not at all: It was nothing like that. Nothing dismayed, he repeated his question. –adjective 12.amounting to nothing, as in offering no prospects for satisfaction, advancement, or the like: She was stuck in a nothing job. —Idioms 13.for nothing, a.free of charge. b.for no apparent reason or motive. c.futilely; to no avail: They had gone to a great deal of expense for nothing. 14.in nothing flat, in very little time: Dinner was finished in nothing flat. 15.make nothing of, a.to treat lightly; regard as easy. b.to be unsuccessful in comprehending: He could make nothing of the complicated directions. 16.nothing but, nothing other than; only: We could see nothing but fog. 17.nothing doing, a.Informal. emphatically no; certainly not. b.no activity, inducement, advantage, etc., present to the eye: We drove through the town but there seemed to be nothing doing. 18.nothing less than or short of, absolutely; completely: She was used to nothing less than the best. 19.think nothing of, a.to treat casually. b.to regard as insignificant: He thinks nothing of lying to conceal his incompetence.
[Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE nānthing, nathing; see no2, thing1]

BABY!!! BABY!! REMEMBER! REMEBER!!!!! It's my liiiife and I'll do what I want! It's my mind And I'll think what I want....

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It never says He gives it back to the Father.

I think you will find that most of the bibles do say that



Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
......... new international version..............


Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION

CONTEMPORARY ENGLISH VERSION Then after Christ has destroyed all powers and forces, the end will come, and he will give the kingdom to God the Father.


Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. NEW KING JAMES VERSION






Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION


Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.TODAYS NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION


and not forgetting my most favourite bible ,

Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION


And in the days of those kings THE GOD OF HEAVEN WILL SET UP A KINGDOM that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; DANIEL 2;44


Yes it is Gods kingdom, and Jesus will hand it back when everything is accomplished .

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Does it?
noth·ing /ˈnʌθɪŋ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nuhth-ing]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.no thing; not anything; naught: to say nothing. 2.no part, share, or trace (usually fol. by of): The house showed nothing of its former magnificence. 3.something that is nonexistent. 4.nonexistence; nothingness: The sound faded to nothing. 5.something or someone of no importance or significance: Money is nothing when you're without health. 6.a trivial action, matter, circumstance, thing, or remark: to exchange a few nothings when being introduced. 7.a person of little or no importance; a nobody. 8.something that is without quantity or magnitude. 9.a cipher or naught: Nothing from nine leaves nine. 10.(used in conventional responses to expressions of thanks): Think nothing of it. It's nothing. Nothing to it. –adverb 11.in no respect or degree; not at all: It was nothing like that. Nothing dismayed, he repeated his question. –adjective 12.amounting to nothing, as in offering no prospects for satisfaction, advancement, or the like: She was stuck in a nothing job. —Idioms 13.for nothing, a.free of charge. b.for no apparent reason or motive. c.futilely; to no avail: They had gone to a great deal of expense for nothing. 14.in nothing flat, in very little time: Dinner was finished in nothing flat. 15.make nothing of, a.to treat lightly; regard as easy. b.to be unsuccessful in comprehending: He could make nothing of the complicated directions. 16.nothing but, nothing other than; only: We could see nothing but fog. 17.nothing doing, a.Informal. emphatically no; certainly not. b.no activity, inducement, advantage, etc., present to the eye: We drove through the town but there seemed to be nothing doing. 18.nothing less than or short of, absolutely; completely: She was used to nothing less than the best. 19.think nothing of, a.to treat casually. b.to regard as insignificant: He thinks nothing of lying to conceal his incompetence.
[Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE nānthing, nathing; see no2, thing1]

BABY!!! BABY!! REMEMBER! REMEBER!!!!! It's my liiiife and I'll do what I want! It's my mind And I'll think what I want....

the most high God has dynamic energy.

Yes, Jehovah is “vigorous in power,” and he is the Source of the “dynamic energy” used to bring the entire universe into existence.


Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.
(Isaiah 40:26) HE CAUSE TO BECOME