God's Place in Universe - Theory

[Quahom1]

To place God within the universe, is to place fetters or boundaries on God. However, the infinite can not be contained, therefore God must be outside the universe. This is "our sand box", not God's...

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

To place God within the universe, is to place fetters or boundaries on God. However, the infinite can not be contained, therefore God must be outside the universe. This is "our sand box", not God's...

How could you place God outside of what exist - If you believe that God exists?

Love,

James

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

How could you place God outside of what exist - If you believe that God exists?

Love,

James

I can create a ship. I can design it, stitch it together, launch it and christen it. But I do not have to be within it, or confined by it. I am not bound by the time that is kept aboard said vessel. But I can visit it at my leisure, and I can get involved with day to day operations of it.

I think God is like that with creation....

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I can create a ship. I can design it, stitch it together, launch it and christen it. But I do not have to be within it, or confined by it. I am not bound by the time that is kept aboard said vessel. But I can visit it at my leisure, and I can get involved with day to day operations of it.

I think God is like that with creation....

I'm with you, but not. God is not confined to what he created, no. What he created is but a [finite] part of who God is. If God exists, then he [cannot] reside outside of what exists.

Existence is God, and God is [infinite]. If you say that God is not existence, then you have effectively placed Him [within] the box of existence. Nothing that exists, can exist outside of existence by the very meaning of the term existence. [Everything]

Love,

James

How are you, btw? [Its been a while]

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I'm with you, but not. God is not confined to what he created, no. What he created is but a [finite] part of who God is. If God exists, then he [cannot] reside outside of what exists.

Existence is God, and God is [infinite]. If you say that God is not existence, then you have effectively placed Him [within] the box of existence. Nothing that exists, can exist outside of existence by the very meaning of the term existence. [Everything]

Love,

James

How are you, btw? [Its been a while]

I believe the desparia here is existence vs. universe...Earth, for example, God made. He is in it, but not of it. And there are 9/10 planets with 60 plus moons and a star within our solar system. But that does not house God. Same with the Galaxy and the universe, or perhaps multiverses. God is in but not of, the cosmos. He is not bound by the confines of a 3D 4D eleventybillion D corporial state. Time holds no tether over God. Space can not confine God.

If we are God's dream, may He never awake. And if we are God's conscious thought, may He never sleep...

I am working within normal parameters James, thank you for asking. I am divorced and sad of it, but better off for it. I'm also learning to live with myself, and that is a very good thing. I wish you well my friend...

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I believe the desparia here is existence vs. universe...Earth, for example, God made. He is in it, but not of it. And there are 9/10 planets with 60 plus moons and a star within our solar system. But that does not house God. Same with the Galaxy and the universe, or perhaps multiverses. God is in but not of, the cosmos. He is not bound by the confines of a 3D 4D eleventybillion D corporial state. Time holds no tether over God. Space can not confine God.

Yes, but if God isn't existence, and everything a part of God, then from what do you think he created everything? I'm of the mind that He creates from within Himself.

If we are God's dream, may He never awake. And if we are God's conscious thought, may He never sleep...

Amen!!

I am working within normal parameters James, thank you for asking. I am divorced and sad of it, but better off for it. I'm also learning to live with myself, and that is a very good thing. I wish you well my friend...

Thank you, Joshua - I've really missed posting here, and speaking with everyone. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune, man. You have been a good friend to me; it is never pleasant to know that one's friends are suffering. I'm sorry, bro.....

Much Love,

James

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Yes, but if God isn't existence, and everything a part of God, then from what do you think he created everything? I'm of the mind that He creates from within Himself.



Amen!!



Thank you, Joshua - I've really missed posting here, and speaking with everyone. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune, man. You have been a good friend to me; it is never pleasant to know that one's friends are suffering. I'm sorry, bro.....

Much Love,

James

Indeed, He "spoke". Even Goethe states "If we do or dream, we begin it" Even God said, "There is nothing man can not accomplish, that he puts his mind to..." We are in the image and likeness of God, yes? We can do what we dream...from nothing can come something...

and thanks. I perceive it may be a blessing in disguise...

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Indeed, He "spoke". Even Goethe states "If we do or dream, we begin it" Even God said, "There is nothing man can not accomplish, that he puts his mind to..." We are in the image and likeness of God, yes? We can do what we dream...from nothing can come something...

and thanks. I perceive it may be a blessing in disguise...

Is there 'really' such a thing as nothing? I mean, can nothing exist at all, being that something does exist? I see what you are saying, tho. It's true - I believe it....

Love,

James

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Is there 'really' such a thing as nothing? I mean, can nothing exist at all, being that something does exist? I see what you are saying, tho. It's true - I believe it....

Love,

James

Genesis states, "...and God said..." prior to that, there appears to have been nothing, unless we call God "something" and from God comes the spoken word...ironically God does state He always was, hence your point about there not being "nothing" is correct. But from God's perspective, there might have been "nothing", but Him. And for arguement's sake, He might be saying, before Him there was nothing. And since He always was...now we are getting into the mystery of God...

Though God want's us educated and intelligent, I think there are areas where we are going to have no clue until we meet face to face with God.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I think there are areas where we are going to have no clue until we meet face to face with God.

Right you are.

In your opinion, what does [I Am] mean, tho?

Love,

James

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Yes, but if God isn't existence, and everything a part of God, then from what do you think he created everything? I'm of the mind that He creates from within Himself

I think what we have confused here is Creation and Existence. Sure if God exists, then He must be part of Existence. It seems however, that the Texts imply that God isn't a part of Creation, but separate from it. Or.......they at least don't commit to either pantheism, panentheism, pandeism, etc. The Christian Texts merely describe the reality without committing to any forced definition. There is no prescription. You may commit to one view if you like, but it's just that your view may not be in good agreement with the spirit/gist or projected meaning of the description given to us in the Texts.

Creation being "functionally separate" from God doesn't mean that we can't be "in" God, or God in us, but us being in God and God being in us doesn't mean that we are not distinct from God. The relationship cannot be compared to normal physics. By "functionally separate" I mean that the functionality, properties, nature, personality, identity and behaviour of God is distinct from the identity and functionality of Creation. They can connect with, mingle with and penetrate each other, even to the extent of overlapping and occupying the same time and space, but they are distinct in identity and functionality. It's not "normal physics." Actually, regarding what I said before, there is no physics, or at least I won't commit to any physics. This is just a description. and you know . . . Christianity is driven by descriptions, not prescriptions. The New Testament describes, it doesn't prescribe.

"Us in God" and "God in us" don't mean the same thing. They could both mean that one is making itself a home or place/purpose for the other, but not necessarily a home/place/purpose in the same manner. "Us in God" means that God makes Himself a home in the sense that He provides the environment for us. He makes Himself into a world/environment/universe for us. It is like Him becoming a bubble of living space in which we live. We, in return, dedicate our lives to doing things that honour Him. This bubble of living space (God's world) is like a temple or spiritual house in which our daily work is a sequence of rituals that we perform for Him, not in the sense of ceremony, but in the sense of fellowship with God and other human beings. We are, actually, that bubble of living space, that spiritual house in which we work for God. Both us, and God form that bubble.

"God in us" is where God penetrates our soul and gives us the energy, inspiration, motivation and personality to be able to do the things we do in the Bubble in which we live. It's like a mutual soul-to-soul penetration between God and Creation.

The Bubble which is our living space is filled by God's Spirit, and those in that Bubble are part of the Fellowship of the Spirit. The Spirit which fills the Bubble is the air we breathe, so for those who live in God's world, the air they breathe is the Spiritos, the breath of God. This is the "us in God." The Spirit not only fills the environment/world in which God's people live, but fills the heart and minds of the people in the Bubble. This is the "God in us."

This configuration at present doesn't exist, at least not in a time and place in which we can all experience it. I would say it's destined to happen in the Age to come.....

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

You may commit to one view if you like, but it's just that your view may not be in good agreement with the spirit/gist or projected meaning of the description given to us in the Texts.

P.S. Not a reference to you personally, Gatekeeper, but just saying that in general, commitment always narrows the scope of things. When the scope is narrowed, people can often get put off by it. When we make something concrete, we exclude other possibilities, and people start complaining because you've labelled a concept as something that it is when it isn't -- or vice versa: something it isn't when it is. The Christian Texts were written to be descriptive rather than prescriptive because that way more people could relate to its ideas.

We're often tempted to commit. A lot of people commit. I try to be careful not to . . .

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

I think what we have confused here is Creation and Existence. Sure if God exists, then He must be part of Existence. It seems however, that the Texts imply that God isn't a part of Creation, but separate from it. Or.......they at least don't commit to either pantheism, panentheism, pandeism, etc. The Christian Texts merely describe the reality without committing to any forced definition. There is no prescription. You may commit to one view if you like, but it's just that your view may not be in good agreement with the spirit/gist or projected meaning of the description given to us in the Texts.

If God is truly only a [part] of existence, then that would make Him subject to outside influence, and thus make Him less than All. Scripture tells us that God is [All] in all. 1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may beall in all.

This says a great deal to me about God, saltmeister. The word all here is, "pas", which means "the whole", "all", "everything", and to balance it out -"Everyone".

I won't call myself a pantheist, as I'm not certain what it is, but if Pantheism suggests that God is all things, then I'm at least, in part, a pantheist, lol. [All in all] Is more than just creative language, or poetics. It implies something very real.

1) that God is "everything"

2) that God will be in "everyone" through Christ, or Spirit of Christ

Creation being "functionally separate" from God doesn't mean that we can't be "in" God, or God in us, but us being in God and God being in us doesn't mean that we are not distinct from God. The relationship cannot be compared to normal physics. By "functionally separate" I mean that the functionality, properties, nature, personality, identity and behaviour of God is distinct from the identity and functionality of Creation.

Right, creation is just a part of Gods existence, and man just a tiny part, of a tiny part in creation. God is infinite in nature, so we cannot know the entirety of God, only realize that all things exist as a part of His reality.

No matter how you look at it, this would make all things existing, a [part of] Him. [If only in mind]

They can connect with, mingle with and penetrate each other, even to the extent of overlapping and occupying the same time and space, but they are distinct in identity and functionality. It's not "normal physics." Actually, regarding what I said before, there is no physics, or at least I won't commit to any physics. This is just a description. and you know . . . Christianity is driven by descriptions, not prescriptions. The New Testament describes, it doesn't prescribe.

I agree...

"Us in God" and "God in us" don't mean the same thing. They could both mean that one is making itself a home or place/purpose for the other, but not necessarily a home/place/purpose in the same manner. "Us in God" means that God makes Himself a home in the sense that He provides the environment for us. He makes Himself into a world/environment/universe for us. It is like Him becoming a bubble of living space in which we live. We, in return, dedicate our lives to doing things that honour Him. This bubble of living space (God's world) is like a temple or spiritual house in which our daily work is a sequence of rituals that we perform for Him, not in the sense of ceremony, but in the sense of fellowship with God and other human beings. We are, actually, that bubble of living space, that spiritual house in which we work for God. Both us, and God form that bubble.

Beautifully put, saltmeister.

"God in us" is where God penetrates our soul and gives us the energy, inspiration, motivation and personality to be able to do the things we do in the Bubble in which we live. It's like a mutual soul-to-soul penetration between God and Creation.

God in us, for me anyway, means that His Spirit is in us, or rather the Spirit Jesus contained within Himself is in us. That Spirit is the [Holy] Spirit of God, which I view to be [Love], or "agape"

The Bubble which is our living space is filled by God's Spirit, and those in that Bubble are part of the Fellowship of the Spirit. The Spirit which fills the Bubble is the air we breathe, so for those who live in God's world, the air they breathe is the Spiritos, the breath of God. This is the "us in God." The Spirit not only fills the environment/world in which God's people live, but fills the heart and minds of the people in the Bubble. This is the "God in us."

You'll have to explain this in further detail, as I don't quite follow. I'm of the mind that our universe is just part of the inner workings of God, and that the earth is a small part, which is not [yet] in perfect harmony with Him.

This configuration at present doesn't exist, at least not in a time and place in which we can all experience it. I would say it's destined to happen in the Age to come.....

Perhaps when Christ's Spirit, or [Holy] Spirit fills all men, we will have peace on earth?

Yes, Someday....I'm sure of it! [Harmony]

Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect [harmony]. Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.
Love

James

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

P.S. Not a reference to you personally, Gatekeeper, but just saying that in general, commitment always narrows the scope of things. When the scope is narrowed, people can often get put off by it. When we make something concrete, we exclude other possibilities, and people start complaining because you've labelled a concept as something that it is when it isn't -- or vice versa: something it isn't when it is. The Christian Texts were written to be descriptive rather than prescriptive because that way more people could relate to its ideas.

We're often tempted to commit. A lot of people commit. I try to be careful not to . . .

Yes, a closed mind is a self created snare, by which we close ourselves from gaining further insight. You are correct, and I'll keep that in mind. Although, at present, I can see things no other way.

Love

James

[mee]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Both Creator, and created

James

the most high God(JEHOVAH )was not created , because as his name itself tells us HE CAUSES TO BECOME

(Je·ho´vah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah´ (become); meaning "He Causes to Become"].



And as we all know, Jesus was the first-born of creation , He was the first thing that Jehovah created alone , the very first thing. But everything else created, was through this first-born .


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; colossians1;15


And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God, REVELATION 3;14


(Proverbs 8:22) "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.


Yes ,Jesus is the first-born of creation ,and Jehovah alone created Jesus .


but no one created Jehovah